Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

Phoebas · 06-05-2013 08:15PM

SamHall wrote: »

Well as it used to come from Income tax and VAT etc,(Which I for one still pay every month) I think you are very much mistaken Phoebas.

It used to come from Income Tax, VAT, Stamp duty and all the rest.

But have a look at exchequer returns over the last 5 years or so. You'll see a big collapse in tax receipts. So while you may be personally paying the same or even more tax, the overall figures are down.

06-05-2013 08:18PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html[/QUOTE]
I also note You didn't quote any of the contributor's under the article, though on reading them, I couldn't blame You.
Just to tickle Your fancy, chew on this one ( apologies if the author reads this):
I read two articles over the week-end.
One stated that we currently pay 1 billion per month in interest,
the other that it is probable that the upcoming "bank health check" will reveal a 30 billion black hole that WE, the citizens, will have to fill.
If both articles are correct, and I honestly don't know if they are not, I think we are in deep deep trouble.
It could be that rather than being in a hole, we are in a mine shaft and we are still bloody digging.
I sincerely hope the author is wrong, but somehow, I think He/She is onto something here. For me? I'll not be registering anytime soon, and wait and see what crawls out of the woodwork....ok dv/MA/Vlad/Noonan/EG etc?
Oh and here's another which echoes my sentiment:
Instead of just printing more threats from that horrible, gloating woman, why doesn't this paper ask her how she thinks hard pressed households are going to find this money.
No doubt on her massive salary she has no such worries.

Here's one I like:
"This is good news. Weed out and expose all the tax dodgers and make sure everyone pays their tax bills. There is a culture of tax avoidance in this country that runs from top to bottom of this society. From the sordid kleptomaniacs who run this country down to the scam artists ripping off the welfare system it is seen to be acceptable to cheat the system. One of the great benefits of having the Troika supervise our finances is that this ugly part of the Irish psyche will be exterminated and we will be happy to pay our taxes and not be tempted to cheat the system anymore. Every country needs a tax system that works . Ireland with its very generous welfare system and incredible social benefits such as free education, health care, children's allowances, free travel for the elderly , etc, needs a very robust tax collection system to fund this system. Think of it as your patriotic duty to pay these taxes to continue to fund the excellent quality of life this country offers.
Like Reply
8 hours ago 20 Likes"

hfallada · 06-05-2013 08:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Here's one I like:
"This is good news. Weed out and expose all the tax dodgers and make sure everyone pays their tax bills. There is a culture of tax avoidance in this country that runs from top to bottom of this society. From the sordid kleptomaniacs who run this country down to the scam artists ripping off the welfare system it is seen to be acceptable to cheat the system. One of the great benefits of having the Troika supervise our finances is that this ugly part of the Irish psyche will be exterminated and we will be happy to pay our taxes and not be tempted to cheat the system anymore. Every country needs a tax system that works . Ireland with its very generous welfare system and incredible social benefits such as free education, health care, children's allowances, free travel for the elderly , etc, needs a very robust tax collection system to fund this system. Think of it as your patriotic duty to pay these taxes to continue to fund the excellent quality of life this country offers.
Like Reply
8 hours ago 20 Likes"

I think your mixing tax avoidance with tax evasion. Tax avoidance is complete legal where as tax evasion is illegal. A majority of the tax loopholes have been closed and its pretty hard to avoid tax now. As with tax evasion revenue are pretty good at identifying it now.

I have see nothing wrong with avoidance as it unfair for a hard working business person employing tens of people paying 56% tax with little benefit to them

06-05-2013 08:30PM

Another good one
"Taxes are the price of citizenship, and also civilisation (to bastardise Benjamin Franklin) If you do not like it, give up your passport, and move elsewhere. You will rapidly find out that Ireland is not a high tax jurisdiction. Anyone who refuses to pay a tax legislated by the democratically elected government of the day is indeed a tax dodger. If the cap fits, etc."

Banjo String · 06-05-2013 08:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Another good one
"Taxes are the price of citizenship, and also civilisation (to bastardise Benjamin Franklin) If you do not like it, give up your passport, and move elsewhere. You will rapidly find out that Ireland is not a high tax jurisdiction. Anyone who refuses to pay a tax legislated by the democratically elected government of the day is indeed a tax dodger. If the cap fits, etc."

Who are you quoting exactly?

06-05-2013 08:48PM

SamHall wrote: »

Who are you quoting exactly?

Sorry, Sam. I'm just quoting from a link LeDieux put up in post 141.

Le_Dieux · 06-05-2013 09:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, Sam. I'm just quoting from a link LeDieux put up in post 141.

We could ALL go on and on picking and choosing what comment suits our own arguments MA. I think You oversteppped the whole ethos of an argument by using the Independent to push your and your governments argument. The same paper which YOU condemned as proved in an example on this thread.

Oh and it wasn't me who put up the link...please get your facts right and also retract that staement you mention above. I only copied YOUR link.

06-05-2013 09:09PM

[QUOTE=Le_Dieux;Oh and it wasn't me who put up the link...please get your facts right![/QUOTE]

But it WAS you who picked and chose what comments to post here!

Le_Dieux · 06-05-2013 09:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But it WAS you who picked and chose what comments to post here!

It was YOU who started this charade with your usage of the Independent.

Anyhow, I am not going to say any more on this as am scared of getting banned., and also causing this thread to be locked, thus resulting in you and your government ministers silencing the majority ( based on the 3 polls conducted in the AH threads on the HHC).

06-05-2013 09:16PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

It was YOU who started this charade with your usage of the Independent.

Anyhow, I am not going to say any more on this as am scared of getting banned., and also causing this thread to be locked, thus resulting in you and your government ministers silencing the majority ( based on the 3 polls conducted in the AH threads on the HHC).

Goodnight, Dear. Sleep well. Come back tomorrow and we'll have another chat.

cageyeuclid · 07-05-2013 04:36AM

Deleted User wrote: »

FF are coming round to the Governments way of thinking. They are letting the electorate know that they DO agree with the LPT. (Whick, of course, we knew all along)

This is a barefaced untruth. After 500 years of British Govt propoganda the Irish people will easily recognise the source of Maryanne's vitriol, ... a failing government.

I quote from the FF leader's speech.

Property Tax
The property tax now being implemented is a classic example of a government which is refusing to respond to a developing crisis.
They have produced a tax which is about, as unfair as it could be. It makes no provision whatsoever for the ability of people to pay. It actively discriminates against many urban areas.
And still, no one in Government has explained why families who cannot even pay their mortgage are now being asked to pay this property tax?
It is wrong to expect families to do so.

Any utterances from Maryanne are just Govt rubbish.

LPT (as is) is cruel and unjust ... and no one in here has said otherwise .. as far as I can see.

Phoebas · 07-05-2013 07:45AM

cageyeuclid wrote: »

This is a barefaced untruth. After 500 years of British Govt propoganda the Irish people will easily recognise the source of Maryanne's vitriol, ... a failing government.

I quote from the FF leader's speech.

Any utterances from Maryanne are just Govt rubbish.

LPT (as is) is cruel and unjust ... and no one in here has said otherwise .. as far as I can see.

It was FF who agreed the property tax with the troika. They may complain about the modalities of it but they won't be repealing it.

Scofflaw · 07-05-2013 09:52AM

There is a general tendency here for some posters to accuse others of being shills, as if the posters were posting on behalf of the government/political party/Illuminati. You do not, and cannot, know that to really be the case, unless the poster actually says it. It is not, therefore, an adequate or acceptable response to arguments posters put forward.

In case that's not clear - statements like this

Any utterances from Maryanne are just Govt rubbish.

- are not an acceptable way of addressing someone's posts. Don't do it, it will be sanctioned.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Banjo String · 07-05-2013 10:26AM

Phoebas wrote: »

It was FF who agreed the property tax with the troika. They may complain about the modalities of it but they won't be repealing it.

I'd agree with this to a certain extent Phoebas, however I imagine FF envisaged a much more improved economy than we have.

FG will lose voters and possibly their role in govt over this. History books will punish them.

Phoebas · 07-05-2013 01:36PM

SamHall wrote: »

FG will lose voters and possibly their role in govt over this. History books will punish them.

I guess we can be thankful that we have a Government that will at last do what is necessary, not just what is popular.

nice_guy80 · 07-05-2013 05:35PM

how someone with a 100 acre mansion doesn't have to pay property tax on that estate is crazy

FG looking after their wealthy and landed friends

darkhorse · 07-05-2013 06:16PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It is going to local authorities. 80 per cent of it (was originally 65 per cent) is going to the local authority it is collected in. The balance is redistributed to other local authorities.

Let's just take a few sentences out this story and have a look at the way the government ministers communicate with each other.

Up to 80% of property tax collected from households within specificlocal authorities will remain in a locality and not be used for facilitieselsewhere, the Government has agreed.
The Government had said that only 65% of funds collected in localities wouldremain there, in line with an expert(I wonder how many experts in the group are on the minimum wage) report on the proposed tax, and thatremaining amounts go back into the central fund and be spent in other areas.

However, Environment Minister Phil Hogan confirmed last night that it had beenagreed in principle that 80% of taxes would be retained within local authorityareas where properties were based. The remaining 20% of will go into a centralfund to be used by local authorities on a "needs basis", his officesaid.
I personally don't believe that any of these funds will be staying in this country, but thats just me.

darkhorse · 07-05-2013 06:36PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

He's obviously changed his mind since then.

And his morals, apparently.

darkhorse · 07-05-2013 06:40PM

Phoebas wrote: »

But it all goes on local authority funding.

You keep telling yerself that.

Phoebas · 07-05-2013 06:55PM

darkhorse wrote: »

You keep telling yerself that.

Its in black and white in the legislation

darkhorse wrote: »

Let's just take a few sentences out this story and have a look at the way the government ministers communicate with each other.

Mixed fonts and random emphasis.

07-05-2013 07:08PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

how someone with a 100 acre mansion doesn't have to pay property tax on that estate is crazy

FG looking after their wealthy and landed friends

I wonder how many 100 acre mansions there are in the country.

cageyeuclid · 07-05-2013 07:32PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I guess we can be thankful that we have a Government that will at last do what is necessary, not just what is popular.

But they have not done what is necessary (i.e to make the LPT equitable). At best this is lazy governance without a mandate, resulting in a cruel tax.

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 07:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how many 100 acre mansions there are in the country.

It's attitudes like the retort here to a reasonable and sensible statement above which makes this country sick to the core. If someone can afford a 100 acre site, then they MUST be made pay their fair share. Yet, someone in a 3 bed semi who is struggling has to pay the LPT???

Next years elections can't come soon enough...

07-05-2013 07:43PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

It's attitudes like the retort here to a reasonable and sensible statement above which makes this country sick to the core. If someone can afford a 100 acre site, then they MUST be made pay their fair share. Yet, someone in a 3 bed semi who is struggling has to pay the LPT???

Next years elections can't come soon enough...

I'm querying the 100 acre mansion. I'm trying to visualise it. A ONE acre mansion would be huge, so a 100 acre one is just unimaginable.

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 07:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm querying the 100 acre mansion. I'm trying to visualise it. A ONE acre mansion would be huge, so a 100 acre one is just unimaginable.

PLEASE MA, take your glasses off and see that the OP is only using the 100 acre as an example...:cool:

07-05-2013 07:51PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

PLEASE MA, take your glasses off and see that the OP is only using the 100 acre as an example...:cool:

An example of what? A gigantic house, or a big house on a 100 acre site/farm? Is he suggesting that the house is exempt? Or is he suggesting that a site valuation would be more appropriate?

Le_Dieux · 07-05-2013 07:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

An example of what? A gigantic house, or a big house on a 100 acre site/farm? Is he suggesting that the house is exempt? Or is he suggesting that a site valuation would be more appropriate?

I can't speak for the poster, ASK HIM/HER! I can surmise, but I think one should wait until the poster answers your question.

Sorry ma, no chat tonight, am off out to organise a petition for our Estate which is a GE in everything but name thanks to that mate of yours from Kilkenny.

Again, I say I can't wait for the council elections to come along next year...your cronies are history as far as I am concerned!

cageyeuclid · 07-05-2013 08:02PM

Please, cut out the diversionary tactics, A mansion on 100 acres is not unusual.

More to the point, the LPT for an OAP is approx a 10% cut while the very personnel collecting the tax refuse a 4% salary cut ... A La Croke Park II.
As I said LPT is Cruel and UNjust for a huge number of people.

07-05-2013 08:13PM

cageyeuclid wrote: »

Please, cut out the diversionary tactics, A mansion on 100 acres is not unusual.

More to the point, the LPT for an OAP is approx a 10% cut while the very personnel collecting the tax refuse a 4% salary cut ... A La Croke Park II.
As I said LPT is Cruel and UNjust for a huge number of people.

For an OAP to lose 10% of their pension, they would have to be paying at least €1196 LPT per year. Now, THAT would be some mansion.

Phoebas · 07-05-2013 08:16PM

cageyeuclid wrote: »

Please, cut out the diversionary tactics, A mansion on 100 acres is not unusual.

To be fair, it is quite unusual - unless you want to include farmland.

cageyeuclid wrote: »

More to the point, the LPT for an OAP is approx a 10% cut ...

How do you work that one out? The OAP would need to be in the 600,001 to 650,000 band.

Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

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