They're Digging Up Grafton Street

Solair · 04-05-2013 11:32AM

T4RGET wrote: »

what i find funnier is that they're starting this during the summer time, continuing it for 3 months, essentially summer months which I'm only logically guessing is the busiest time for the shops with a lot of people being off school, work and college. Good job :rolleyes:

You'd be guessing wrong. Peak shopping season by a huge factor is the couple of months in the run up to Xmas.

Most shops make 50%+ of their annual income in those couple of months

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-05-2013 11:40AM

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

OP, Grafton Street is a main centre of commerce in Ireland. Tourists and Irish alike spend alot of money here. Replacing the dated stonework would boost sales and business. It's not a waste of money, it's an investment.

If thats the case spend money on getting rid of the junkies and other low life dealing drugs and preying on tourists in and around Grafton St. the Quays & O'Connell street.

Tbh I've never noticed the color of the pavements in these area's but the open dealing and other crimes can not go unseen by anyone.

Dyr · 04-05-2013 11:58AM

Viviana Uninterested Scarecrow wrote: »

Tbh I've never noticed the color of the pavements in these area's but the open dealing and other crimes can not go unseen by anyone.

'cept the guards :pac:

Dyr · 04-05-2013 12:00PM

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

What I like about Irish Cities and Towns is the bright colours they use. Whereas cities like Edinburgh and Prague can get away with being predominantly grey due to the stunning architecture, I'm afraid that Dublin cannot and would benefit with a splash of colour.

They're going to replace light red on grafton stret with grey. Your argument holds no water.

Look at the pictures.

Look at them.

Wibbs · 04-05-2013 12:16PM

markpb wrote: »

I guess the reason for the 18 month schedule is because all the shops must be accessible all the time, emergency service vehicles must always be able to use the street, some space must be left for delivery trucks and a few shoppers must be able to, you know, shop otherwise the street will be pretty but the shops will have gone out of business (Red Luas line construction?). It's not the widest street in the world - anyone who claims it could be done in a few weeks while achieving all that is talking through their ass.

No one is talking about a few weeks, but it could easily be done in a shorter timeframe than 18months(likely closer to two years going on previous). Numero uno, it's not a residential street, so you've got the nighttime to do the work around the shop entrances, leaving the centre less tricky sections for the daytime. It would require planning ahead of course and that seems to be a trick sadly lacking in many of our public building works over the last two decades.

stefan idiot jones · 04-05-2013 12:40PM

Bambi wrote: »

They're going to replace light red on grafton stret with grey. Your argument holds no water.

Look at the pictures.

Look at them.

I was agreeing with the poster that commented on replacing a colour with yet another grey which does nothing aesthetically. My 'opinion' is watertight.

Kenny Logins · 04-05-2013 12:44PM

Busiest (second busiest?) shopping street in Ireland is broken and in need of repair. Scandalous.

markpb · 04-05-2013 12:47PM

Viviana Uninterested Scarecrow wrote: »

If thats the case spend money on getting rid of the junkies and other low life dealing drugs and preying on tourists in and around Grafton St. the Quays & O'Connell street..

If the Gardai don't want to, can't, or don't have the resources to police the city centre properly, there's not much DCC can do about it. They can't (unlike the US) decide to spend part of their budget paying for a local police service. They could have all the money in the world and still be unable to fix that problem.

Czarcasm · 04-05-2013 01:12PM

marwelie wrote: »

Badly needed, tiles broken, loose stones, half of the street subsided, and it stinks in places where people have thrown up. As a wheelchair user, the smoother the ride the better. Now if they would only consider removing the cobbles from outside Trinity College my lifes work would be done

The only thing though about wheelchair use on these new smooth paving types is that when it's wet you might as well be trying to propel yourself uphill on sheet glass.

Amalgam wrote: »

I can't remember where I read it, but I think there were concerns about the new stone choice. The surface might be a liability to the Council when it is raining. Slipping etc.

^This. It's quite literally a pain in the hole when you're having to get around on a crutch and there's no ground grip, the crutch will sometimes slip forward or out to the side and you end up chewing on their fancy non-grip surface, or worse when my dead leg goes out and I flip up in the air and end up on my back.

Give me the Victorian cobbles any day, at least on those I can manage to stay upright!

Dyr · 04-05-2013 01:17PM

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

I was agreeing with the poster that commented on replacing a colour with yet another grey which does nothing aesthetically. My 'opinion' is watertight.

Then you are reprieved, continue on

Magnetics · 04-05-2013 01:26PM

I thought the red bricks brought a bit of much needed character to the street

Grey generic pavement isn't going to anything for the street at all

Solair · 04-05-2013 02:08PM

Magnetics wrote: »

I thought the red bricks brought a bit of much needed character to the street

Grey generic pavement isn't going to anything for the street at all

Hopefully they don't do the same paving job they did on Henry Street.
Some new modern paving can look really 'sterile'.

Something warmer would have looked better.

I don't think O'Connell Street's too bad, but it could have been a little less harshly modern. I think it's somewhat out of keeping with the architecture of the street, as is the spire.

The stuff that was put down in Cork City centre isn't bad though. It looks quite attractive. I just hope Dublin City Council doesn't go for some really bland grey stuff though that's totally out of keeping with the mostly Victorian nature of the shopping districts of the city centre which suits brick very well.

The one big complaint I have about Cork's revamp was they installed huge 'modern art' style street lamps into what is otherwise a really pretty, busy, meandering shopping district with big grand Victorian department stores. Huge ultra-modern street furniture should be kept for docklands developments and stuff like that.

I sincerely hope they don't do something 'experimental' on Grafton Street too. The quaint, 'olde worlde' nature of it is part of the charm of that part of Dublin.

paddy147 · 04-05-2013 02:21PM

donvito99 wrote: »

About bloody time, the white tiles to the sides are deathtraps

How many people have died by walking on them then??????????;)

OH no wait......

Bunch of clueless fcukwhits making these decisions and wasting millions of euro for no real reason what so ever.:rolleyes:

Fix all the fcuking undergorund water leaks 1st...save the water and stop the need for water cuts on peoples homes and areas.

Odysseus · 04-05-2013 02:31PM

Viviana Uninterested Scarecrow wrote: »

If thats the case spend money on getting rid of the junkies and other low life dealing drugs and preying on tourists in and around Grafton St. the Quays & O'Connell street.

Tbh I've never noticed the color of the pavements in these area's but the open dealing and other crimes can not go unseen by anyone.

As you are usually ratiional about things like this I was wondering what way do you thinhk it it could be tackled?

Removing clinics from the city center won't do it as with the exception of Trinity Court the others only treat those living within that location.

The homeless will always head for the city centre.

As others have pointed out it is not an issue DCC can really deal with, but the issue needs to be addressed not just pushed out of sight to another location.

What do you think could be done, better treatment facilities? Better law enforcement?

Arpa · 04-05-2013 02:31PM

aaabbbb wrote: »

Think it is , similar to the pavement on O'Connell st. Tis great craic walking down there in a pair of uggs after a good aul afternoon rain shower , I'm surprised how I haven't ended up in James' yet with a broken wrist !

I'm surprised how you haven't ended up in James' yet for wearing Uggs full stop. :cool:

They're going to mess it up whatever they do, I hold no confidence. Has anyone ever tried walking across James Joyce Bridge on a wet day? It's like an ice rink.

It will never happen but I kinda like the old way Grafton Street was

macsauce · 04-05-2013 03:24PM

Wibbs wrote: »

No one is talking about a few weeks, but it could easily be done in a shorter timeframe than 18months(likely closer to two years going on previous). Numero uno, it's not a residential street, so you've got the nighttime to do the work around the shop entrances, leaving the centre less tricky sections for the daytime. It would require planning ahead of course and that seems to be a trick sadly lacking in many of our public building works over the last two decades.

I'm a little curious how you're qualified to make such a call? Are you a civil engineer or project manager?

Teyla Emmagan · 04-05-2013 03:54PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Oh for god sake, this is what the councils are meant to do and you're complaining about it??

Have you actually seen the state of the paving on Grafton St? Its not fit for purpose and needs to be changed - its over 20 (possibly 30?) years since it was last done.

The only eejit here is you.

I think they were laid in 1982 or thereabouts. I remember walking past piles of brick being brought to Captain America's one Sunday.

Given Grafton St is the 'main shopping street' for the whole country, it's well overdue for a facelift. Tourists must think we're a developing country and some of those bricks are lethal in parts. I particularly hate when you step on a floating one and it sends a squirt of filthy water all over your tights. YUK!!!

Czarcasm · 04-05-2013 05:11PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I particularly hate when you step on a floating one and it sends a squirt of filthy water all over your tights. YUK!!!

That sounds more like you stepped on a prick than a brick :eek:

Teyla Emmagan · 04-05-2013 05:32PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

That sounds more like you stepped on a prick than a brick :eek:

That's happened too on Grafton St!

goose2005 · 05-05-2013 02:22PM

starviewadams wrote: »

Can't have Dublin spending money they generated on improving the city and increasing tourism,that's for bogger TD's to decide.

Athlone could use an international airport!

If Athlone gets one then Mullingar needs one too.

jaffacakesyum · 05-05-2013 02:34PM

I agree this is what the councils are supposed to do but am I the only one who thinks Grafton St is fine? It's not a "death trap" FFS, there are literally hundreds of worse off roads that should be fixed before Grafton St.

markpb · 05-05-2013 02:42PM

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I agree this is what the councils are supposed to do but am I the only one who thinks Grafton St is fine? It's not a "death trap" FFS, there are literally hundreds of worse off roads that should be fixed before Grafton St.

They're not doing it up because some people think it's slippy. It's because it requires a huge amount of maintenance which is drawing staff away from the other areas you think are more important. theyre doing it because it looks like crap which is a bad thing for a street which generates huge rates and VAT income for the local and central government.

jaffacakesyum · 05-05-2013 02:45PM

markpb wrote: »

They're not doing it up because some people think it's slippy. It's because it requires a huge amount of maintenance which is drawing staff away from the other areas you think are more important. theyre doing it because it looks like crap which is a bad thing for a street which generates huge rates and VAT income for the local and central government.

I don't think it looks crap. That's my point. It's grand :pac:

But fair enough if it does require a huge amount of maintenance, I never see much work being done on it, only staff I see working on it are cleaning.

Solair · 05-05-2013 02:49PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I think they were laid in 1982 or thereabouts. I remember walking past piles of brick being brought to Captain America's one Sunday.

Given Grafton St is the 'main shopping street' for the whole country, it's well overdue for a facelift. Tourists must think we're a developing country and some of those bricks are lethal in parts. I particularly hate when you step on a floating one and it sends a squirt of filthy water all over your tights. YUK!!!

Calling it the main shopping street for the entire country's a little bit of an exaggeration to be honest. It's the more upmarket of two main shopping streets in Dublin, and that's about it really. It's not all that exciting or unique and it's certainly rather mediocre compared to many European cities' main shopping districts.

Dublin City Council has to maintain Grafton Street and Henry Street or they will lose footfall. Grafton Street has deteriorated somewhat over the last few years due to the sliding economy and unrealistic bubble-time rents.

If DCC doesn't maintain it and it doesn't keep it looking good, more shoppers just disappear to the suburbs.

At present, in terms of shops it doesn't really offer very much that's unique. It's very much your 'classic' UK-style high street in terms of the range of shops. The only one that stands out as unique is Brown Thomas, but that also has a pretty large (and actually nicer looking building) in Cork and two smaller branches in Limerick and Galway and a presence in Dundrum via BT2.

It's a shame that Dundrum also pulled in Harvey Nicks and House of Frasier which would have been really big draws to the city centre. It's the first time we've ever seen those kinds of flagship department stores out in the suburbs exclusively.

It's not a bad shopping street, but it's not all that much to write home about either. Also, the Stephen's Green centre is just bereft of interesting tenants these days. I don't ever feel the need to go in there when I'm in Dublin and that's very much part of the Grafton Street stretch of shops.

I'd also argue that there's been underdevelopment of the warren of streets around Grafton Street. There's a bit, but there could have been a lot more. I'd expect a much more dense shopping area but for whatever reason that didn't happen.

I know talking to people from the Midlands in particular, that Cork's become a more frequent shopping destination because it's easier to get around and has a more densely packed together shopping experience.

---

I just think in general, Dublin City Centre needs to not forget that it has serious competition in terms of Dundrum Centre in particular but also for shoppers who are in reach of Cork or Belfast, they're actually two cities that are really very pleasant to shop in and have a similar range of big name stores.

Galway, Limerick etc are not in the same league in terms of shops because they're a lot smaller.

So, really you can't blame Dublin City Council for spending money on keeping itself up with the competition. If shops disappear because the street becomes tatty / tacky, then the city council loses rates revenue and the centre of town would decline.

Grafton Street and Henry Street need to remain shopping destinations or the city centre's dead in the water. It's as simple as that.

05-05-2013 03:00PM

Solair wrote: »

Calling it the main shopping street for the entire country's a little bit of an exaggeration to be honest. It's the more upmarket of two main shopping streets in Dublin, and that's about it really. It's not all that exciting or unique and it's certainly rather mediocre compared to many European cities' main shopping districts.

Dublin City Council has to maintain Grafton Street and Henry Street or they will lose footfall. Grafton Street has deteriorated somewhat over the last few years due to the sliding economy and unrealistic bubble-time rents.

If DCC doesn't maintain it and it doesn't keep it looking good, more shoppers just disappear to the suburbs.

At present, in terms of shops it doesn't really offer very much that's unique. It's very much your 'classic' UK-style high street in terms of the range of shops. The only one that stands out as unique is Brown Thomas, but that also has a pretty large (and actually nicer looking building) in Cork and two smaller branches in Limerick and Galway and a presence in Dundrum via BT2.

It's a shame that Dundrum also pulled in Harvey Nicks and House of Frasier which would have been really big draws to the city centre. It's the first time we've ever seen those kinds of flagship department stores out in the suburbs exclusively.

It's not a bad shopping street, but it's not all that much to write home about either. Also, the Stephen's Green centre is just bereft of interesting tenants these days. I don't ever feel the need to go in there when I'm in Dublin and that's very much part of the Grafton Street stretch of shops.

I'd also argue that there's been underdevelopment of the warren of streets around Grafton Street. There's a bit, but there could have been a lot more. I'd expect a much more dense shopping area but for whatever reason that didn't happen.

I know talking to people from the Midlands in particular, that Cork's become a more frequent shopping destination because it's easier to get around and has a more densely packed together shopping experience.

---

I just think in general, Dublin City Centre needs to not forget that it has serious competition in terms of Dundrum Centre in particular but also for shoppers who are in reach of Cork or Belfast, they're actually two cities that are really very pleasant to shop in and have a similar range of big name stores.

Galway, Limerick etc are not in the same league in terms of shops because they're a lot smaller.

So, really you can't blame Dublin City Council for spending money on keeping itself up with the competition. If shops disappear because the street becomes tatty / tacky, then the city council loses rates revenue and the centre of town would decline.

Grafton Street and Henry Street need to remain shopping destinations or the city centre's dead in the water. It's as simple as that.

But there's nothing wrong with the bricks. Surely having the street as a building site for the next 18 months is of more detriment than keeping the current - to my mind perfectly fine - brickwork.

Solair · 05-05-2013 03:02PM

true-or-false wrote: »

But there's nothing wrong with the bricks. Surely having the street as a building site for the next 18 months is of more detriment than keeping the current - to my mind perfectly fine - brickwork.

The bricks are loose and tatty looking and the street furniture in general is pretty rubbishy looking.

18 months is absolutely ridiculous though. I don't know how it could possibly take that long.

The repaving in Cork was extremely slow because there was a massive issue with underground rivers which had to have culverts rebuilt. It also covered much more surface area / length of streets than the Grafton Street project.

However, in Grafton street it should be a relatively simple case of repaving which shouldn't take more than about 8 weeks. It's a very short street!

If you gave my granny a few million quid and a JCB I'm sure she could do it faster than 18 months (without help)

I'm 100% in favour of revamping the street but 100% baffled as to why it would need 18 months to complete.

Are they hand carving each brick or something?

I have this vision of some old dude who sounds like old Mr Brennan with a trowel and a big pile of bricks starting at Stephen's Green.

I just checked on Google Maps. The paved area of Grafton Street is only 400 meters long!!!!!

http://goo.gl/maps/YWzIw

05-05-2013 03:43PM

Waste management, water supply, recycling, fire brigade, sewerage. These are all dealt with by DCC and are all (IMO) more important than a few "loose and tatty looking" bricks.

Redistribution of the money for the repaving could stop a person who's house has been burned down paying over €500 for the fire brigade, or could go into helping homeowners fix leaks in water pipes on their property in advance of the water charges, or set up improvements to recycling facilities.

I'd understand if the street was an state, but I just don't think it's that bad.