Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

vinylbomb · 28-04-2013 06:55PM

donalg1 wrote: »

Not all wages fluctuate with the economy in the private sector, many people I know haven't seen any decreases in their wages and I haven't either.

But all wages have the potential to fluctuate in the private sector.
That is crucial.

tayto lover · 28-04-2013 06:56PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

Nope.

As do we all. The point I was making is that I have had an element of my discretionary spending removed through taxation so as to support the discretionary spending of sean200.

Laughable statement.

Every citizen has discretionary spending.

vinylbomb · 28-04-2013 06:58PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You should donate half of your net pay to the Govt. It will make you a stand-up citizen and give you great satisfaction.

I donate over half my gross.

tayto lover · 28-04-2013 07:00PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I donate over half my gross.

That's why I said "net". You would get a great thrill out of it.

vinylbomb · 28-04-2013 07:03PM

tayto lover wrote: »

That's why I said "net". You would get a great thrill out of it.

I'd prefer if you donated half your net back to me.

tayto lover · 28-04-2013 07:07PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I'd prefer if you donated half your net back to me.

I pay myself thank you.

vinylbomb · 28-04-2013 07:11PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I pay myself thank you.

I really dont mind where it comes from. Half will do nicely thanks.

skafish · 28-04-2013 08:19PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

We have to BORROW to pay the PS wages.
Fair enough, PS spend their cash in the economy but they dont raise interest on the money they are spending - yet that money is BORROWED and needs to be repaid with interest - this results in a net loss to the economy.

And with the nasty side effect of higher taxes all round to cover the loan repayments.

There will inevitably be a drop in consumer spending off the back of a reduction in the PS wage bill, but that is at least then the economy becomes self-sustaining.
Continually borrrowing to cover something we cant afford is not.

We also have to borrow to pay high social welfare rates. And as most people are aware, one f the bigger impediments to people taking up jobs is that they feel they are better off on SW.

Why not tackle this anomaly first?

Good loser · 28-04-2013 10:14PM

skafish wrote: »

We also have to borrow to pay high social welfare rates. And as most people are aware, one f the bigger impediments to people taking up jobs is that they feel they are better off on SW.

Why not tackle this anomaly first?

Tackle it by all means but there's no need to do it first.

Strictly, I suppose, that can only be done at budget time.

As Joanie hasn't lived up to her responsibilities in the last two budgets expect she'll fudge it the next time as well.

Treehousetim · 28-04-2013 10:35PM

We need a tough cookie in welfare, someone who is capable of making the tough decisions. I know people better off on welfare than people I know working. Its messed up.

vinylbomb · 28-04-2013 10:53PM

skafish wrote: »

We also have to borrow to pay high social welfare rates. And as most people are aware, one f the bigger impediments to people taking up jobs is that they feel they are better off on SW.

Why not tackle this anomaly

I couldnt agree more. This is another component that needs to be dealt with. But this thread is about CP2 specifically

skafish wrote: »

first?

Well, my preference would be to do both in parallel.

vinylbomb · 28-04-2013 10:55PM

Dan O Brien in the Times

I know he does write some absolute pony at times but at least the figure in here cant be quibbled with.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/employment/time-to-face-bubble-era-public-sector-pay-anomalies-1.1319592

Tea drinker · 29-04-2013 09:55AM

tayto lover wrote: »

You should donate half of your net pay to the Govt. It will make you a stand-up citizen and give you great satisfaction.

All the smart, ballsy guys are doing this now.

Tea drinker · 29-04-2013 09:56AM

Good loser wrote: »

Tackle it by all means but there's no need to do it first.

Strictly, I suppose, that can only be done at budget time.

As Joanie hasn't lived up to her responsibilities in the last two budgets expect she'll fudge it the next time as well.

There are cuts to carers allowance coming down the tracks???

Godge · 29-04-2013 02:08PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

Dan O Brien in the Times

I know he does write some absolute pony at times but at least the figure in here cant be quibbled with.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/employment/time-to-face-bubble-era-public-sector-pay-anomalies-1.1319592

there was no table in your link, there was no data link provided to back up the figures, there was no rationale for the dates picked.

O'Brien has got his figures wrong before, to say that this one can't be quibbled with is naive especially in the light of the above points.

Getting back on topic, this thread is about what is happening about Croke Park, not about how much the public sector is under/overpaid.

Does anyone have any real feedback from what the LRC is discussing with the unions?

woodoo · 29-04-2013 07:15PM

Take a look at dispatches and look how outsourcing postal deliveries has improved once moved to the private sector

Somehow i don't think the public service in the UK would have done that. You would get the impression from some on this thread that the private sector is a byword for efficiency and getting things done well.

woodoo · 29-04-2013 07:33PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

Dan O Brien in the Times

I know he does write some absolute pony at times but at least the figure in here cant be quibbled with.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/employment/time-to-face-bubble-era-public-sector-pay-anomalies-1.1319592

And the figures he is quoting i wonder do they include the semi state wages in the comparisons.

sock puppet · 29-04-2013 07:49PM

woodoo wrote: »

Take a look at dispatches and look how outsourcing postal deliveries has improved once moved to the private sector Somehow i don't think the public service in the UK would have done that. You would get the impression from some on this thread that the private sector is a byword for efficiency and getting things done well.

The unfortunate reality is that outsourcing is used to cut costs (particularly in the UK where the public sector are under huge pressure to outsource as much as they can) rather than improve service. My only experience is in IT but vendors will bid quite agressively and often don't even make a profit on the initial deal, so pretty much every corner that can be cut will be. If the public sector want to ensure certain service levels they can write it into the contract.

Dreamertime · 29-04-2013 11:03PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I tell you how it works.

Me and two of my mates had to cancel our gym memberships to be able to pay the raised taxes necessary to pay your wages which allowed you have a gym membership in the first place.

Thats rich from someone providing scab labour in outsourcing work from exisitng Public Servants.

Shameful.

vinylbomb · 30-04-2013 12:24AM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Thats rich from someone providing scab labour in outsourcing work from exisitng Public Servants.

Shameful.

You really do need to learn the understand what you're saying. Your misappropriation of terminology is nothing short of breath-taking.

I suggest you start by looking at a definiton of scab labour.
And then I'll ask you again: Who is on strike?

And I will also ask you again, where did you get this information about outsourcing?

Tell you what, I'll draft your posts correctly for you.
For a fee. You can "outsource" it to me.

vinylbomb · 30-04-2013 12:28AM

woodoo wrote: »

....look how outsourcing postal deliveries has improved.......

I'd be strongly against completely privatising services.

But CP2 didnt advocate that.

Dreamertime · 30-04-2013 12:30AM

vinylbomb wrote: »

You really do need to learn the understand what you're saying. Your misappropriation of terminology is nothing short of breath-taking.

I suggest you start by looking at a definiton of scab labour.
And then I'll ask you again: Who is on strike?

And I will also ask you again, where did you get this information about outsourcing?

Tell you what, I'll draft your posts correctly for you.
For a fee. You can "outsource" it to me.

You've aready admitted you're a contractor for the PS. Yellow pack alternative, scab labour...

Jawgap · 30-04-2013 09:33AM

woodoo wrote: »

Take a look at dispatches and look how outsourcing postal deliveries has improved once moved to the private sector Somehow i don't think the public service in the UK would have done that. You would get the impression from some on this thread that the private sector is a byword for efficiency and getting things done well.

sock puppet wrote: »

The unfortunate reality is that outsourcing is used to cut costs (particularly in the UK where the public sector are under huge pressure to outsource as much as they can) rather than improve service. My only experience is in IT but vendors will bid quite agressively and often don't even make a profit on the initial deal, so pretty much every corner that can be cut will be. If the public sector want to ensure certain service levels they can write it into the contract.

Outsourcing is part of the solution, but it's not the only solution. Through the 80s and mid 90s the UK outsourced aggressively and since then they've been quietly rowing back in certain areas.

As regards postal services - postage rates in the UK are about 40% higher than they were pre-privatisation and allowing for inflation - interestingly prices only accelerated when controls were loosened......

On the other side services have been curtailed and targets missed - although it has to be said only marginally. The number of postboxes and collections has been curtailed.......and they cut the second delivery:mad:

Anyway, I'm not for a minute suggesting the pre-privatised Royal Mail was efficient and it probably soaked up significant resources - in its current incarnation its kind of profitable.

It's questionable, in my view, whether you should privatise something as fundamental as the country's postal service, but there are definitely elements of it that could be contracted out, and there are other parts of the PS that could be transferred out or contracted out.

Head The Wall · 30-04-2013 04:23PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

You've aready admitted you're a contractor for the PS. Yellow pack alternative, scab labour...

So every contractor is scab labour in your mind?

You haven't got a clue

Dreamertime · 30-04-2013 05:22PM

Is there no low Howlin won't stoop to?

Now threatening people who are about to become pensioners.

The Labour Party are dead to the Public Service...

Figerty · 30-04-2013 06:32PM

to be fair,, he doesnt have to stoop much to be low down.

vinylbomb · 30-04-2013 06:34PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

You've aready admitted you're a contractor for the PS. Yellow pack alternative, scab labour...

So all fixed term and day rate contractors are now scabs. Wonderful.

You really hit the nail on the head with your moniker.

Dreamertime · 30-04-2013 07:10PM

Figerty wrote: »

to be fair,, he doesnt have to stoop much to be low down.

tayto lover · 30-04-2013 08:15PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Is there no low Howlin won't stoop to?

Now threatening people who are about to become pensioners.

The Labour Party are dead to the Public Service...

The arrogance of this Govt is astounding.
Labour are becoming more FG than FG themselves.
Noonan announcing two more very austere budgets.
Enda behaving like a little smart arse, full of himself.
There could be an election quicker than they think with a bit of luck but then again what have we to replace them as its either Zig or Zag.

noodler · 30-04-2013 08:17PM

Fair play to the Government for standing up to them.

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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