NCT and Car maintenance?

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 05:38PM

Please Kill Me wrote: »

My OH and I are both out of work. We have three children (including a newborn) we need a car to get up and down to the school with the older lad (no buses before the smart-arses start) I service the car myself, tyres are replaced when needs be, alignment done when needs be. The car is insured as it's only €20 a month. I tax it for 3 months, let it slide for 3 months, taxed for 3 months etc. Hasn't been NCT'd in 2 years as it's a money-making scam! I've seen good, well-taken care of cars fail, and piles of shite pass. Doesn't make sense. If the cops take the car off me, I'll just get another cheap runaround. Simples.

If you get in an accident you'll be in trouble. Insurance won't pay out leaving you will a nice bill that you don't need. €55 is not a lot to pay to cover your ass.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 05:41PM

mathie wrote: »

Did I say the employees were ripping people off?

Then why use term like per hour and per 5 minutes :rolleyes:
Most services are price on the job done not the time taken.

ScumLord · 29-04-2013 05:41PM

Jester252 wrote: »

If you get in an accident you'll be in trouble. Insurance won't pay out leaving you will a nice bill that you don't need. €55 is not a lot to pay to cover your ass.

So, really he should stop paying for the insurance too?

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 06:06PM

ScumLord wrote: »

So, really he should stop paying for the insurance too?

Not having the NCT means that the insurance won't pay out in case of an accident.
Not having insurance means a fine up to €2,000, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence, and/or a possible jail term not to mention loss of car if see by a guard.

shedweller · 29-04-2013 06:19PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Before you get a car, check the if there's a Haynes manual for it. You can normally know then if a service is difficult or not.

When i last looked the haynes manual was all but useless for a significant chunk of jobs on most modern cars. Lots of boxed paragraphs saying "take it to the dealer" or words to that effect.

Guy:Incognito · 29-04-2013 06:23PM

Sleepy wrote: »

While I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to stand over a timing belt on a visual inspection, a stamped log book/receipts showing it to have been changed on schedule wouldn't be an impossible thing to require for cars above a given reg plate (i.e. let people know in advance).
)

So now people are not allowed change their own timing belts if they want to? Qualified mechanics have to take their cars to garages and pay someone else to work on it and stamp the book?

Plus If people buying cars dont give a **** enough to look for verifiable service histories why should the government? Its no skin off their nose if you dont maintain your car and the belt snaps.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-04-2013 06:24PM

ScumLord wrote: »

So, really he should stop paying for the insurance too?

what'll happen is that if there is a collision then the insurance company could go after him for the money

but he won't suffer the rigours of the law otherwise,
not that those who don't have insurance fear the law enough :mad:

and not having NCT is a crap load of penalty points + fine

Wibbs · 29-04-2013 07:15PM

listermint wrote: »

On your model this is true. Not true for 'all' modern cars.

True enough, it most certainly varies, but it would be fair to say that there has been a move away from the home mechanic over the last decade.

Sleepy wrote: »

While I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to stand over a timing belt on a visual inspection, a stamped log book/receipts showing it to have been changed on schedule wouldn't be an impossible thing to require for cars above a given reg plate (i.e. let people know in advance).

I dunno S, that kinda thing smacks of more nannying by the state to me. Plus in order to have a stamped log book, it requires going to a garage and you just know there would be "approved" garages in such a scheme. I'm quite sure the motor industry would love it, but what about people who do their own maintenance? People who don't want to pay 150 quid for an oil change you can do in 15 mins and depending on the oil you use would cost a third of that(great sticky in the motors forum here showing you how). Buy one of those oil sucker thangs and you could change your oil in a three piece suit.

I've changed cam belts(avec water pump), a turbo, a head gasket and other stuff, generally it's actually not that hard, especially with a manual like the Haynes and nowadays you can be sure there's an owners forum where some other petrolhead who really knows their shít will show you the ropes. I'm not saying everyone should do this and there's stuff like gearboxes I may as well be looking into the black hole of Calcutta, but I like having the choice.

ScumLord wrote: »

Had the exact same problem lately, I bought a van in that had a new fuel pump fitted outside of the dealership but we still had to bring it in to be reset. I stood at the driver door, mechanic stood at the passenger door with the laptop plugged in. Taps a few keys, tells me to turn the car off, taps a few keys, turn the car on again, taps a few keys.. Job done. It's about as complicated as updating drivers on your PC.

Yep and OK some systems may need to be learned into the ECU, but colour my suspicious about others.

shedweller wrote:

When i last looked the haynes manual was all but useless for a significant chunk of jobs on most modern cars. Lots of boxed paragraphs saying "take it to the dealer" or words to that effect.

I've heard similar of late too SW. I suppose it depends on the model of car. i've even seen more "you'll have to take it to the dealer" on some model specific car forums of late. IMHO there was a "sweet spot" for cars and home maintenance(and complexity/electronics) between that era of having to grease your trunnions and gap your points once a month and the era of the dealer needs to plug in a laptop. Around the 80's/90's I reckon. Again IMH I'll make a prediction that there'll be more classic cars from that kinda period around in 2050 than there will be of current potential classics.

HondaSami · 29-04-2013 07:49PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Not having the NCT means that the insurance won't pay out in case of an accident.
Not having insurance means a fine up to €2,000, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence, and/or a possible jail term not to mention loss of car if see by a guard.

If you have insurance they have to pay out regardless of nct AFAIK, open to correction.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 08:43PM

HondaSami wrote: »

If you have insurance they have to pay out regardless of nct AFAIK, open to correction.

They could use the lack of an NCT to help prove that you knew the car was not roadworthy. While the NCT is a government issue not having one could aid the proof that you knew it was not roadworthy. They will not pay out damages to you or your car if that is the case. They will pay 3rd party damages and sue you in civil court.

It safer IMO to have the NCT as a back up in these cases.

HondaSami · 29-04-2013 08:58PM

Jester252 wrote: »

They could use the lack of an NCT to help prove that you knew the car was not roadworthy. While the NCT is a government issue not having one could aid the proof that you knew it was not roadworthy. They will not pay out damages to you or your car if that is the case. They will pay 3rd party damages and sue you in civil court.

It safer IMO to have the NCT as a back up in these cases.

Who said the car is not roadworthy? Not having an NCT does not automatically prove your car is not roadworthy.
Your car could pass the NCT today and something could fail on it a few days later, it's the reason the NCT are not responsible if something should happen.

I agree 100% it's better to have the NCT.

woodoo · 29-04-2013 09:07PM

I'd be happy to hear there is mass rejection of the NCT simply because i'm not happy that 10 year old cars have to be tested every year.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 09:26PM

HondaSami wrote: »

Who said the car is not roadworthy? Not having an NCT does not automatically prove your car is not roadworthy.
Your car could pass the NCT today and something could fail on it a few days later, it's the reason the NCT are not responsible if something should happen.

I agree 100% it's better to have the NCT.

That is the case however the NCT does check things that are to do with needed for a car to roadworthy. They might use the lack of an NCT against you in this respect in order not to pay out. We all know how insurers don't what to pay out and they will use anything against you.

Guy:Incognito · 29-04-2013 10:06PM

HondaSami wrote: »

If you have insurance they have to pay out regardless of nct AFAIK, open to correction.

They have to pay out 3rd party. They could then persue you for the cost. Youll have to pay your own bills in that case

skyhighflyer · 29-04-2013 10:10PM

Faith+1 wrote: »

I was surprised when they told me they had to replace 3 tyres.

As long as you got them to replace the headlight fluid as well.

irish bloke · 29-04-2013 10:28PM

Lilliana Odd Tungsten wrote: »

I looked after my car very well. Its nct'd, I travel across the country to a specialist mechanic for servicing who is an expert on my make of car as I can trust him, car is hovered and cleaned completely inside and de-tared, washed etc outside regularly (by me with correct cloths etc). full de-taring, clay treatment and wax is penciled in for this weekend depending on the weather.

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Sleepy · 29-04-2013 10:34PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So now people are not allowed change their own timing belts if they want to? Qualified mechanics have to take their cars to garages and pay someone else to work on it and stamp the book?

Plus If people buying cars dont give a **** enough to look for verifiable service histories why should the government? Its no skin off their nose if you dont maintain your car and the belt snaps.

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno S, that kinda thing smacks of more nannying by the state to me. Plus in order to have a stamped log book, it requires going to a garage and you just know there would be "approved" garages in such a scheme. I'm quite sure the motor industry would love it, but what about people who do their own maintenance? People who don't want to pay 150 quid for an oil change you can do in 15 mins and depending on the oil you use would cost a third of that(great sticky in the motors forum here showing you how). Buy one of those oil sucker thangs and you could change your oil in a three piece suit. I've changed cam belts(avec water pump), a turbo, a head gasket and other stuff, generally it's actually not that hard, especially with a manual like the Haynes and nowadays you can be sure there's an owners forum where some other petrolhead who really knows their shít will show you the ropes. I'm not saying everyone should do this and there's stuff like gearboxes I may as well be looking into the black hole of Calcutta, but I like having the choice.

You both seem to have missed the word "receipts" in my post. Receipts for the parts (e.g. timing belt kit) would be proof enough of a job done for me.

I'd generally do the basic servicing myself but I'd be wary of those drainage pumps, given some of the crud you see coming out when you change the oil, I'd be concerned the suction pump would miss it. I remember seeing it on the motors forum that their use was particularly dangerous on the likes of the Saab 95.

Though, tbh Wibbs, I reckon you're right about how such an idea would be actually implemented in Ireland. It's a shame imo. It'd be good to see something that might actually encourage people to mind their cars.

Guy:Incognito · 29-04-2013 10:39PM

Sleepy wrote: »

You both seem to have missed the word "receipts" in my post. Receipts for the parts (e.g. timing belt kit) would be proof enough of a job done for me.

.

Receipts are pointless in a situation where your forcing people to show proof to the government. People already do things like swap parts temporarily for tests. All it means is that people will get hold of receipts to show for the test. Mechanics will have piles of receipts for all sorts of parts that they could use for "proof".testing whats in front of them on the day is all the test can do.

woodoo · 29-04-2013 10:43PM

irish bloke wrote: »

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Girlfriend or no girlfriend its a better pastime than vomiting against the wall of the local chinese takaway on a saturday night after a dozen pints

29-04-2013 11:54PM

irish bloke wrote: »

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Already have one

.

A few hours once a month or so to wash and clean out a car and keep it looking well is hardly over kill. I'd be disgusted to own half the cars in the country to be honest the state of them. Waxing and de-taring is a once or twice a year thing not a regular thing.

It will also make the car more appealing when it comes sale time especially when it's a performance model, people who buy them appreciate a well kept car.

woodoo wrote: »

Girlfriend or no girlfriend its a better pastime than vomiting against the wall of the local chinese takaway on a saturday night after a dozen pints

I'll Probably spend as much time on the beer at the weekend as working on the car

Faith+1 · 30-04-2013 12:10AM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

As long as you got them to replace the headlight fluid as well.

Absolutely! They also said my steering wheel was leaking oil so I need to get a new one!:p

shedweller · 30-04-2013 08:41AM

Lilliana Odd Tungsten wrote: »

Already have one .

A few hours once a month or so to wash and clean out a car and keep it looking well is hardly over kill. I'd be disgusted to own half the cars in the country to be honest the state of them. Waxing and de-taring is a once or twice a year thing not a regular thing.

It will also make the car more appealing when it comes sale time especially when it's a performance model, people who buy them appreciate a well kept car.

I'll Probably spend as much time on the beer at the weekend as working on the car

Fair play, you make a good point. Just wait till the kids come along and you'll be vacumning once a week and clay barring out handlebar, buggy and shopping trolley marks! Well, maybe you wont but theres a good chance you will.
I could wash and wax my car every second day for most of the year and it would still look grubby. As for kids damaging it? I could hoist it 100 feet in the air on a crane and they would still find ways to scratch it!
There came a point...

turbostan · 30-04-2013 09:16AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Well duuuuh, though I still call ballsology. I know quite a bit about costs and unless the OP is driving some high end motor with equally high end parts prices at a main dealer, or the "service" included a clutch or cam belt/chain, an otherwise standard service including brakes at 700 quid is more than a tad steep, especially if they've not spotted a shagged CV boot. Then again I've seen chancers charge near 200 quid for an oil change so...

Depends on what the definition of roadworthy is. A dead catalytic convertor could cost that to replace, especially at main stealer prices and that would have absolutely zero effect on safety

Funny how I've gone through umpteen Garda checkpoints, didn't even have an old one displayed and only once was it even commented upon. They may be changing, but for a very long time it was clearly of very low priority as my experience isn't unusual.

+1 A knackered CV joint can go on for ages grinding and knocking as it goes, but it's a helluva lot cheaper to replace the CV boot cover than having to replace the joint/entire shaft itself. Then again cheap appears to be relative considering the prices the OP's garage seems to be charging.

Firstly its a rubber dust cover that he failed on, so that's otherwise known as a drop link rubber fairer, not a CV boot..
Handist thing is just to replace the drop link, not a big or expensive job..
I do think its a harsh retest though, would be fairly easy to spot a shiny new link on most cars by simply turning the wheels and therefore not requiring the use of a test lane.
It could go through on a visual retest then.

Thatnastyboy · 30-04-2013 09:48AM

turbostan wrote: »

Firstly its a rubber dust cover that he failed on, so that's otherwise known as a drop link rubber fairer, not a CV boot..
Handist thing is just to replace the drop link, not a big or expensive job..
I do think its a harsh retest though, would be fairly easy to spot a shiny new link on most cars by simply turning the wheels and therefore not requiring the use of a test lane.
It could go through on a visual retest then.

Ive never heard of a drop link rubber fairer, you're speaking of a drop link, or anti roll bar link, or the bushes on either end of said drop link.

TBH id say it was a cv boot, as they are in essence, a dust jacket, a drop link has no "jacket" as such, unless you count the bushes as jackets.... and you cannot replace the bushes on them, and if you could it would be silly as drop links cost pennies for most cars.

If he failed on a drop link it would have been down as "anti roll bar link" or "sway bar link" or something of that effect.

/

30-04-2013 09:59AM

shedweller wrote: »

Fair play, you make a good point. Just wait till the kids come along and you'll be vacumning once a week and clay barring out handlebar, buggy and shopping trolley marks! Well, maybe you wont but theres a good chance you will.
I could wash and wax my car every second day for most of the year and it would still look grubby. As for kids damaging it? I could hoist it 100 feet in the air on a crane and they would still find ways to scratch it!
There came a point...

I would hope to have a second car/suv for that sort of work when the time comes, still kept well but not as bothered about it as I would with which ever car I have for myself as the chances are it wouldn't be practical enough anyway.

turbostan · 30-04-2013 10:10AM

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Ive never heard of a drop link rubber fairer, you're speaking of a drop link, or anti roll bar link, or the bushes on either end of said drop link.

TBH id say it was a cv boot, as they are in essence, a dust jacket, a drop link has no "jacket" as such, unless you count the bushes as jackets.... and you cannot replace the bushes on them, and if you could it would be silly as drop links cost pennies for most cars.

If he failed on a drop link it would have been down as "anti roll bar link" or "sway bar link" or something of that effect.

/

Sorry dunno how that word "fairer" appeared on my post, must be the dreaded predictive text, twas meant to read "gaiter"!!
Anyway, the little rubber dust cover on the end joints of the links ARE fails if they are torn or damaged in any way.
These can actually be replaced on their own without replacing the complete link but as you rightly pointed out the links themselves cost very little anyway so its hardly worth the hassle.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-04-2013 02:23PM

woodoo wrote: »

I'd be happy to hear there is mass rejection of the NCT simply because i'm not happy that 10 year old cars have to be tested every year.

Did you see the stuff that was on the roads before the NCT ?

Wobbly kangaroo bars held on with bailing twine

Head lights casting a beam into the sky at 45 degrees

Having to use a seat belt because the seat kept tilting forward upon braking

Holes in the floor were barely remarkable

and it was worse down the country

Busiest time for the fire brigade with people torching cars to get the insurance on something that couldn't possibly pass

Annual is a bit much , bi annual was better

what would cause a lot of rows and confrontation would be a points system where if you car got a high enough score it could get two years. But that would just lead to agro on all the people having to retest next year on all the warnings

mathie · 30-04-2013 04:03PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Then why use term like per hour and per 5 minutes :rolleyes:
Most services are price on the job done not the time taken.

Who sets those prices?
:rolleyes:

Wibbs · 30-04-2013 04:47PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd generally do the basic servicing myself but I'd be wary of those drainage pumps, given some of the crud you see coming out when you change the oil, I'd be concerned the suction pump would miss it. I remember seeing it on the motors forum that their use was particularly dangerous on the likes of the Saab 95.

I'm sure there are applications where it would be a bad plan alright. I change my oil a lot compared to most, so I don't see crud(TBH S I'd be :eek: if I did). I will do the standard sump plug out job every three changes(if nothing else cos I want to see if any metal shavings have shown up on the magnetic sump plug). I've compared the amount of oil I get out using both methods and on my engine and by my measurements the top down drainage pump gets more of the old oil out than the sump plug method. Being anal about such things, once after doing the sump plug way I left it draining for nigh on an hour. Then I stuck the oul pump nozzle in and it sucked more used oil out. I'd reckon around a couple of eggcups worth. I suppose it depends on the sump design and where the plug is.

Though, tbh Wibbs, I reckon you're right about how such an idea would be actually implemented in Ireland. It's a shame imo. It'd be good to see something that might actually encourage people to mind their cars

+1

ScumLord · 30-04-2013 05:24PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Did you see the stuff that was on the roads before the NCT ?

You can still see those cars on the road in other countries. I couldn't get over the bangers I saw in Vegas Parked at the lights you'd see Aston Martins next to an old banger spewing smoke and even doing the back fires.

NCT and Car maintenance?

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