Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 12:48PM

sharper wrote: »

In my view you should get paid better than someone else that does the bare minimum. This is why I refuse to cheer on the public sector unions, they're on the side of those that want to show up and do as little as possible.

+1

Godge · 25-04-2013 02:25PM

sharper wrote: »

Some people are under the impression that the unions are "standing up" to the government and drawing a line against further cuts. What they don't realise is they're only resisting cuts which affect them and ultimately someone somewhere has to pay for it all.

That is an unfair generalisation.

There are plenty of us who accept that the budget deficit has to be reduced but that the public sector have already suffered enough.

It would be equally unfair to suggest that you and similar posters only want to see public service pay cut so you don't have to pay higher taxes.

sharper · 25-04-2013 03:45PM

Godge wrote: »

That is an unfair generalisation.

I think you're seeing a bit too far past what I said.

The public sector unions are only resisting measures which affect them directly, I think that's essentially a factual statement that accurately reflects their behavior to date.

I think the danger is in perceiving their actions too generally i.e. "standing up to government cuts" rather than "standing upto cuts which affect them".

I would say most people in the country have been fairly reasonable when it comes to cuts in spending versus increases in tax. I have little time for militants on either side of that balance.

carpejugulum · 25-04-2013 04:54PM

creedp wrote: »

I work in the PS and regularly work beyond 6pm or 7pm depending on the workload and occasionally have to come in on a Saturday if something urgent has to be resolved. Guess what I don't invoice anybody for my extra hours .. its all part of the service.

Blasphemer! (say the unions)

ikarie · 25-04-2013 04:57PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

Because most salaries in the PS are negotiated on a per annum salary, not an hourly rate.

is that not for teachers,ie: hours vs annual?
General PS and CS are salaried, @ 37, 39 hours or whatever, fixed rate.

Tea drinker · 25-04-2013 07:53PM

creedp wrote: »

I work in the PS and regularly work beyond 6pm or 7pm depending on the workload and occasionally have to come in on a Saturday if something urgent has to be resolved. Guess what I don't invoice anybody for my extra hours .. its all part of the service.

Depending on your position, you probably should though. let me put it this way, there are plenty of charities out there.

But even if no one else has said it, you have my acknowledgement and thanks at least.

woodoo · 25-04-2013 08:02PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of foresight displayed by some people on here.
I am CERTAIN that this will lead to higher taxes all round, and an increase in the pension levy for those lucky enough to be immune from the dole queue.

While I have a modicum of respect in the CPSU's position as the lowerpaid end of the PS it beggars belief that they refused CP2 on the basis that they would have to work an extra 2.5 hours a week (upwards from 32.5) . In my opinion the "marketing" of this as a pay cut by union officials was disgraceful.

I would love to know who is working these 32.5 hrs. I don't know anyone doing that as a standard week?

sharper · 25-04-2013 08:10PM

woodoo wrote: »

I would love to know who is working these 32.5 hrs. I don't know anyone doing that as a standard week?

The Central Bank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_Ireland

The CBOI more than doubled its headcount to 1400 by 2012 since the introduction of the single currency, many of whom are on an average salary of €80,000 a year[187] and work 32.5 hours per week or 6.5 hours a day.[188][189] The level of its business travel expenses, featured in the best-selling book "Wasters",[190] increased by 46% in one year.[191][192] At one time, the Governor was said to be one of the highest paid Central Bankers in the world.[193] An "endemic culture of rewarding failure" has meant that not one person in the Central Bank has been sacked for their role in the worst financial and economic crisis in Ireland's history, a leading economist said in August 2011.

skafish · 25-04-2013 10:54PM

Just a quick thought: Where are the government getting their figures?

They say on the one hand they want €300M a year from the PS.
PS headcount is approximately 300 K.
€300 000 000 divided by 300 000 is €1 000 each, if my abacus is still working.
Actual tax take from PS is approx. 50%, so net is €500 per PS worker per anum.
Tenner a week equals 7%?
Or am I missing something?

Dreamertime · 25-04-2013 11:01PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

How, in any way possible, could vulture capitalism apply to the public sector?

Your description of your 'race ot the bottom' style of work.

Dreamertime · 25-04-2013 11:02PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

If I work a day in O/T I'll invoice it. If I do an hour here and an hour there I won't.
Extra endeavour is recognised. As is having a bit of pride in my work.

Is the service you provide being outsourced to you from Public servants..?

Dreamertime · 25-04-2013 11:03PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

.

Dreamertime feels somewhat differently about your diligence.

you're not wrong...

sock puppet · 25-04-2013 11:18PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Your description of your 'race ot the bottom' style of work.

How is that vulture capitalism? Vulture capitalism and "the race to the bottom" are not in any way related.

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 11:54PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Outsourcrd labour is nothing short of scab labour...

Who is on strike?

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 11:56PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Is the service you provide being outsourced to you from Public servants..?

Who mentioned Outsourcing?
It certainly wasnt me.

Good loser · 26-04-2013 12:45AM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Your description of your 'race ot the bottom' style of work.

You could obviously do with a few weeks/years in a North Korean re-education camp.

vinylbomb · 26-04-2013 12:03PM

Taken from the Irish Independent, Today. 24 April 2013
*********************************************

<admin snip> - you can't copy and paste an entire article in here. Feel free to edit the post and replace this notice with a link to the article.

sean200 · 26-04-2013 02:40PM

idiot that is what is in this country
retail sales fell 1.9% in March from February 3.6% year on year
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0426/385823-retail-sales/
Why is this or is it because they are about to slash public sector pay??
then the idiots in IBEC an ISME wonder why

noodler · 26-04-2013 02:44PM

sean200 wrote: »

idiot that is what is in this country
retail sales fell 1.9% in March from February 3.6% year on year
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0426/385823-retail-sales/
Why is this or is it because they are about to slash public sector pay??
then the idiots in IBEC an ISME wonder why

LMAO.

No, no correlation I am afraid.

Simply a result of the current economic crisis - they have fallen for the last 5 months in a row.

Nice try though.

sean200 · 26-04-2013 03:20PM

noodler wrote: »

LMAO.

No, no correlation I am afraid.

Simply a result of the current economic crisis - they have fallen for the last 5 months in a row.

Nice try though.

To find you correlation take at look at the consumer crash just after the pension levy and last pay-cut
They have told 300k people they would cut their pay and that means up 500k or more family STOP SPENDING
If the drop in consumer demand continues we are looking at a loss of 40k private sector jobs
Well done IBEC and ISME and the idiots in goverement

carpejugulum · 26-04-2013 04:19PM

sean200 wrote: »

idiot that is what is in this country
retail sales fell 1.9% in March from February 3.6% year on year
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0426/385823-retail-sales/
Why is this or is it because they are about to slash public sector pay??
then the idiots in IBEC an ISME wonder why

It's time to realize that debt not supported by sustainable production is not wealth.

carpejugulum · 26-04-2013 04:21PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Your description of your 'race ot the bottom' style of work.

Do you avoid buy one get one free and 1/2 price offers like the plague too?

tayto lover · 26-04-2013 05:37PM

So while the Govt decide not to get involved in the pay row over Bank of Ireland chief Richie Bouchier it has no trouble suggesting cuts to the wages of ordinary bank workers.
The staff are threatening action and rightly so -
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0426/385871-bank-staff-action/

Which Private Sector organisation will they target next?
I always suspected that after targeting the Public Sector they would not be long tackling the Private Sector. Keep the peasant down.

Count Dooku · 26-04-2013 05:45PM

sean200 wrote: »

idiot that is what is in this country
retail sales fell 1.9% in March from February 3.6% year on year
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0426/385823-retail-sales/
Why is this or is it because they are about to slash public sector pay??
then the idiots in IBEC an ISME wonder why

public sector not been slashed yet, this is direct result from increasing taxes in order to preserve PS pay

donalg1 · 26-04-2013 11:42PM

tayto lover wrote: »

So while the Govt decide not to get involved in the pay row over Bank of Ireland chief Richie Bouchier it has no trouble suggesting cuts to the wages of ordinary bank workers.
The staff are threatening action and rightly so -
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0426/385871-bank-staff-action/
8
Which Private Sector organisation will they target next?
I always suspected that after targeting the Public Sector they would not be long tackling the Private Sector. Keep the peasant down.

They'll never learn taxing your way out of recession doesnt work. Basic economics and they can't manage it just like the previous govt.

Private sector facing cuts now as well as public sector maybe they'll finally unite everyone.

sharper · 27-04-2013 02:35PM

donalg1 wrote: »

Private sector facing cuts now

The private sector has been facing cuts the whole way through. Every single compulsory job loss off the crisis has been in the private sector.

Ever seen those figures concerning GDP being down? Jobs being lost? Workers forced onto 3 day weeks? That's all the private sector.

It's beyond ridiculous you think now the private sector is facing cuts and now suddenly they'll unite with a bunch of people that have no notion of that.

donalg1 · 27-04-2013 02:39PM

sharper wrote: »

The private sector has been facing cuts the whole way through. Every single compulsory job loss off the crisis has been in the private sector.

Ever seen those figures concerning GDP being down? Jobs being lost? Workers forced onto 3 day weeks? That's all the private sector.

It's beyond ridiculous you think now the private sector is facing cuts and now suddenly they'll unite with a bunch of people that have no notion of that.

Talk about missing the point, based on that post seems to me you have no notion about how things are.

sharper · 27-04-2013 02:43PM

donalg1 wrote: »

Talk about missing the point, based on that post seems to me you have no notion about how things are.

Then please explain your point in relation to the objection I raised. How does the situation translate into some new threat facing the private sector (i.e. now facing cuts) which lead to some new course of action for private sector workers (i.e. now unite with public sector unions).

I find your "I know you are but what am I?" style response unpersuasive.

donalg1 · 27-04-2013 03:04PM

sharper wrote: »

Then please explain your point in relation to the objection I raised. How does the situation translate into some new threat facing the private sector (i.e. now facing cuts) which lead to some new course of action for private sector workers (i.e. now unite with public sector unions).

I find your "I know you are but what am I?" style response unpersuasive.

The majority of people I know haven't had any cuts at all many have had the opposite. The only ones that have been cut are the ones I know in the public sector who have had many cuts and those in the construction industry all of whom have since emigrated.

The point that you missed however is that if austerity is to be defeated then a united front is required. However some seem intent on calling for further cuts to certain sectors, when as I already said you can't tax your way out of a recession.

sharper · 27-04-2013 03:19PM

donalg1 wrote: »

The point that you missed however is that if austerity is to be defeated then a united front is required.

The company I work for produces products for the export market. Are we going to get my company's international customers and competitors on board with this too?

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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