Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

maco12 · 24-04-2013 07:34PM

i know quite a few who are furious with the unions, feel just totally let down, and are withdrawing subs...unions going to lose out, while Kenny talks up job cutting..

Dreamertime · 24-04-2013 10:28PM

barneystinson wrote: »

Really? You speak for all CPSU members?!

Strange that they do ballots about issues so, when all they need to do is ask you... :rolleyes:

87% speaks for itself dude.

Dreamertime · 24-04-2013 10:32PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

A CPSU executive member told me they hoped SIPTU and IMPACT would carry the deal and were quite horrified when it didnt happen.

Thats a good one considering there was a unanimous recommendation for rejecting CPII.

:rolleyes:

barneystinson · 24-04-2013 10:45PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

87% speaks for itself dude.

Yeah it means 13% of your CPSU colleagues disagreed with you in relation to the original proposal. Nothing more.

It doesn't mean that
1) They wouldn't want their union to be involved in future negotiations, or
2) they wouldn't vote very differently to a different proposal.

And as I said to you originally, it doesn't give you a platform to speak for anyone but yourself.

vinylbomb · 24-04-2013 10:48PM

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of foresight displayed by some people on here.
I am CERTAIN that this will lead to higher taxes all round, and an increase in the pension levy for those lucky enough to be immune from the dole queue.

While I have a modicum of respect in the CPSU's position as the lowerpaid end of the PS it beggars belief that they refused CP2 on the basis that they would have to work an extra 2.5 hours a week (upwards from 32.5) . In my opinion the "marketing" of this as a pay cut by union officials was disgraceful.

skafish · 24-04-2013 10:48PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

You do realise that this means higher taxes on everyone. EVERYONE.
Possibly a dole cut too, as unpalatable as that seems to be. That's where the money will come from.

Unpalatable for who?

And, in case you haven't realised it by now, PS workers are tax payers too. In fact, most of us return 52% of our salaries to our employers in direct taxes

skafish · 24-04-2013 10:51PM

Godge wrote: »

Yes, undoubtedly, through a mixture of taxes, social welfare cuts and cuts to meaningless grants to all sorts.

Public sector pay and pensions is coming down this year anyway because there are less lump sums to pay out. Once the reduced employment targets are met, there will be sufficient saved from the PS paybill.

As a slight aside, does anybody know what is the situation regarding Indas much vaunted promise to save the country a fortune by getting rid of all the quangos?

vinylbomb · 24-04-2013 11:08PM

skafish wrote: »

Unpalatable for who?

Politically. The Shinners will make absolute political hay out of a cut to the dole, and ironically they are the ones who, if they could be believed for one second, plan to tax the absolute sh1te out of people earning 40k+

skafish wrote: »

And, in case you haven't realised it by now, PS workers are tax payers too. In fact, most of us return 52% of our salaries to our employers in direct taxes

Thanks for the insightful information, I though PS salaries were tax free as a perk of the job.

More efficient PS (+ various other things) = savings = Deficit reduction = Less taxes soner rather than later.

Dreamertime · 24-04-2013 11:12PM

barneystinson wrote: »

Yeah it means 13% of your CPSU colleagues disagreed with you in relation to the original proposal. Nothing more.

It doesn't mean that
1) They wouldn't want their union to be involved in future negotiations, or
2) they wouldn't vote very differently to a different proposal.

And as I said to you originally, it doesn't give you a platform to speak for anyone but yourself.

We'll see whose right eh...;)

Dreamertime · 24-04-2013 11:13PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of foresight displayed by some people on here.
I am CERTAIN that this will lead to higher taxes all round, and an increase in the pension levy for those lucky enough to be immune from the dole queue.

While I have a modicum of respect in the CPSU's position as the lowerpaid end of the PS it beggars belief that they refused CP2 on the basis that they would have to work an extra 2.5 hours a week (upwards from 32.5) . In my opinion the "marketing" of this as a pay cut by union officials was disgraceful.

Would you work on a Saturday for nothing?

vinylbomb · 24-04-2013 11:16PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Would you work on a Saturday for nothing?

I contract into PS, and yes, sometimes I do go in for a few hours on a Saturday without billing for it.

I am contracted for 37.5 hours and invoice for 37.5 hours but rarely work less than 45.
Bad habit I seem to have acquired in the private sector.

Dreamertime · 24-04-2013 11:23PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I contract into PS, and yes, sometimes I do go in for a few hours on a Saturday without billing for it.

I am contracted for 37.5 hours and invoice for 37.5 hours but rarely work less than 45.
Bad habit I seem to have acquired in the private sector.

A ridiculous habit.

Belittling yourself and the service you provide. Is this work you do outsourced to you from PS workers..?

vinylbomb · 24-04-2013 11:32PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

A ridiculous habit.

Belittling yourself and the service you provide. Is this work you do outsourced to you from PS workers..?

And I'll be doing your job too soon enough from the sounds of it.

Its the way of the world my friend.
Harder. Better. Faster. Stronger.

Dreamertime · 24-04-2013 11:48PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

And I'll be doing your job too soon enough from the sounds of it.

Its the way of the world my friend.
Harder. Better. Faster. Stronger.

So you're dodging the question.

Outsourcrd labour is nothing short of scab labour...

Good loser · 25-04-2013 12:39AM

Dreamertime wrote: »

A ridiculous habit.

Belittling yourself and the service you provide. Is this work you do outsourced to you from PS workers..?

That's an outrageous response to vinylbomb's reply to your query re Saturday working in the PS. Small minded and mean.

I would compliment him for generosity and public spiritedness/patriotism.

Dreamertime · 25-04-2013 06:47AM

Good loser wrote: »

That's an outrageous response to vinylbomb's reply to your query re Saturday working in the PS. Small minded and mean.

I would compliment him for generosity and public spiritedness/patriotism.

Devaluing one's work is what Vulture Capitalism is all about.

Being professional and working with integrity does not mean you do your work on the cheap while making other workers vulnerable...

deise blue · 25-04-2013 08:57AM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I contract into PS, and yes, sometimes I do go in for a few hours on a Saturday without billing for it.

I am contracted for 37.5 hours and invoice for 37.5 hours but rarely work less than 45.
Bad habit I seem to have acquired in the private sector.

I agree , it is a bad habit to allow yourself to be exploited .

Why not invoice for the hours you have worked , after all most good employers do pay overtime or at least recognise extra endeavour come bonus time.

However if you do wish to be compliant who am I or indeed your employer to argue ?

Anecdotal I know but I worked all across the private sector in areas such as furniture manufacturing , flour milling , a brewery , fruit growing & most recently in banking & in all cases overtime was recorded & paid for - the one thing all my jobs had in common was that they were unionised - thankfully !

creedp · 25-04-2013 09:29AM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of foresight displayed by some people on here.
I am CERTAIN that this will lead to higher taxes all round, and an increase in the pension levy for those lucky enough to be immune from the dole queue.

While I have a modicum of respect in the CPSU's position as the lowerpaid end of the PS it beggars belief that they refused CP2 on the basis that they would have to work an extra 2.5 hours a week (upwards from 32.5) . In my opinion the "marketing" of this as a pay cut by union officials was disgraceful.

You are on a thread which is considering Croke Park II reductions in terms and conditions for 300k workers in order to save €300m and you consider that the the PS have no foresight in defending their terms and conditions as against spreading the same saving sought across 1.8m workers? Am I missing something?

If this insight was being discussed in a thread titled 'How much additional tax might private sector workers have to pay if Croke Park II fails' then I consider it would be appropriate. Or maybe you think that the non-PS side aren't fortright enough in their condemnation of the mé féiner PS workers. I mean the aduacity of them! Sure all private sector workere are trying to defend is their net pay and of course that is a reasonable strategy to adopt but most certainly not a mé féiner one.

creedp · 25-04-2013 09:31AM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I contract into PS, and yes, sometimes I do go in for a few hours on a Saturday without billing for it.

I am contracted for 37.5 hours and invoice for 37.5 hours but rarely work less than 45.
Bad habit I seem to have acquired in the private sector.

I work in the PS and regularly work beyond 6pm or 7pm depending on the workload and occasionally have to come in on a Saturday if something urgent has to be resolved. Guess what I don't invoice anybody for my extra hours .. its all part of the service.

Larbre34 · 25-04-2013 10:29AM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Thats a good one considering there was a unanimous recommendation for rejecting CPII.

:rolleyes:

And in breaking news, politicised groups co-ordinate and use strategies to expedite their real aims

:rolleyes:

Larbre34 · 25-04-2013 10:30AM

Sit-rep

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/letter-from-europe-austerity-is-fast-becoming-a-dirty-word-1.1371799

ikarie · 25-04-2013 11:39AM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I contract into PS, and yes, sometimes I do go in for a few hours on a Saturday without billing for it.

I am contracted for 37.5 hours and invoice for 37.5 hours but rarely work less than 45.
Bad habit I seem to have acquired in the private sector.

Well that means if CP2 was implemented your mates would have been working 39 hours a week instead!
That's OK though, you can up your own ante to 47 hours a week

You've got me curious, working an extra 2.5 hours a week for free, why do you think that it's not an overall pay cut?

sharper · 25-04-2013 11:44AM

creedp wrote: »

I work in the PS and regularly work beyond 6pm or 7pm depending on the workload and occasionally have to come in on a Saturday if something urgent has to be resolved. Guess what I don't invoice anybody for my extra hours .. its all part of the service.

In my view you should get paid better than someone else that does the bare minimum. This is why I refuse to cheer on the public sector unions, they're on the side of those that want to show up and do as little as possible.

sean200 · 25-04-2013 11:55AM

hmmm wrote: »

How much of our deficit is caused by repayments to bond holders?

I'll save you looking it up - almost none. Most cuts are because we are still spending too much running this country than we take in through tax.

What about the interest on the 64 billion we had to borrow to bail the bank out???
Did that not go to bondholders and are we getting that for free?
Former Anglo bondholders are costing us 1 billion a year still
And then an idiot like you tell us that the cost of paying off bondholders is not causing our deficit
I give up

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 12:39PM

Dreamertime wrote: »

Devaluing one's work is what Vulture Capitalism is all about.

How, in any way possible, could vulture capitalism apply to the public sector?

Dreamertime wrote: »

does not mean you do your work on the cheap while making other workers vulnerable...

None of which I do. I'm not cheap, but I do supply a superior service with a higher value proposition.

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 12:41PM

deise blue wrote: »

I agree , it is a bad habit to allow yourself to be exploited .

Why not invoice for the hours you have worked , after all most good employers do pay overtime or at least recognise extra endeavour come bonus time.

If I work a day in O/T I'll invoice it. If I do an hour here and an hour there I won't.
Extra endeavour is recognised. As is having a bit of pride in my work.

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 12:42PM

ikarie wrote: »

Well that means if CP2 was implemented your mates would have been working 39 hours a week instead!
That's OK though, you can up your own ante to 47 hours a week

You've got me curious, working an extra 2.5 hours a week for free, why do you think that it's not an overall pay cut?

Because most salaries in the PS are negotiated on a per annum salary, not an hourly rate.

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 12:43PM

creedp wrote: »

I work in the PS and regularly work beyond 6pm or 7pm depending on the workload and occasionally have to come in on a Saturday if something urgent has to be resolved. Guess what I don't invoice anybody for my extra hours .. its all part of the service.

I congratulate you, and appreciate your effort.

Dreamertime feels somewhat differently about your diligence.

vinylbomb · 25-04-2013 12:45PM

creedp wrote: »

You are on a thread which is considering Croke Park II reductions in terms and conditions for 300k workers in order to save €300m and you consider that the the PS have no foresight in defending their terms and conditions as against spreading the same saving sought across 1.8m workers? Am I missing something?

If this insight was being discussed in a thread titled 'How much additional tax might private sector workers have to pay if Croke Park II fails' then I consider it would be appropriate. Or maybe you think that the non-PS side aren't fortright enough in their condemnation of the mé féiner PS workers. I mean the aduacity of them! Sure all private sector workere are trying to defend is their net pay and of course that is a reasonable strategy to adopt but most certainly not a mé féiner one.

As per previous post

I am CERTAIN that this will lead to higher taxes all round, and an increase in the pension levy for those lucky enough to be immune from the dole queue.

sharper · 25-04-2013 12:48PM

vinylbomb wrote: »

I am CERTAIN that this will lead to higher taxes all round, and an increase in the pension levy for those lucky enough to be immune from the dole queue.

Some people are under the impression that the unions are "standing up" to the government and drawing a line against further cuts. What they don't realise is they're only resisting cuts which affect them and ultimately someone somewhere has to pay for it all.

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

Comments