Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 08:48PM

Eod100 wrote: »

How would you have relegation without a second league?

You wouldn't. :rolleyes:

Bridge93 · 17-04-2013 09:09PM

TheVman wrote: »

dont really agree. ive been living here in france (toulouse) since 2004 and from all the different hcup and six nations games ive been to i have to say you cant beat an irish crowd for the noise.
Two examples : munster castres in toulouse last year, the stade ernest wallon was painted red and stand up and fight and the fields vibrated...
leinster clermont in bordeaux (semi) it was blue magic !

i know im generalising but the french are grumpy enough they sit down and watch the match and give out to the irish in front of them for making noise and standing up...

In any case i got me tickets and im off to montpellier on the 27th two extra red jerseys, come on MUNSTER

and

UP TIPP :pac:

Clermont are the loudest and most passionate fans in Europe. They never shut up and the noise they generate is incredible. I don't think unless they're winning the Munster fans will be heard at all.

thomond2006 · 17-04-2013 09:10PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I respect where you are coming from, but it's a poor, poor league imo.
No relegation, teams walk into the H Cup. Most games are irrelevant.
Yes, you are right to look forward to the play offs, but something needs to be done with it.

Strange kind of reasoning. If it was a poor league shouldn't we be dominating it? It doesn't look well on Munster if they are losing games at home to average teams like Cardiff in a "poor league".

Ultimately it is a test of squad depth. Munster's first XV with everyone fit is good but the quality level decreases quickly from there.

I agree on the "irrelevant" point to an extent, but there's plenty of those kind of games in England and France as well.

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 09:17PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Strange kind of reasoning. If it was a poor league shouldn't we be dominating it? It doesn't look well on Munster if they are losing games at home to average teams like Cardiff in a "poor league".

Ultimately it is a test of squad depth. Munster's first XV with everyone fit is good but the quality level decreases quickly from there.

I agree on the "irrelevant" point to an extent, but there's plenty of those kind of games in England and France as well.

Yes, there's no doubt on paper we should have done better, but sometimes I wonder are the players up for it. For instance, were they really that bad v Glasgow, or were they eyeing the much bigger match the following week.
In England, you have to fight off relegation, try for the H Cup or the playoffs, so there's nearly always something to play for for every team.

thomond2006 · 17-04-2013 09:26PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Yes, there's no doubt on paper we should have done better, but sometimes I wonder are the players up for it. For instance, were they really that bad v Glasgow, or were they eyeing the much bigger match the following week.
In England, you have to fight off relegation, try for the H Cup or the playoffs, so there's nearly always something to play for for every team.

Munster more than any other team I know go on about "playing for the jersey". Now if that doesn't manifest itself in a game then they're not doing what they're being paid for. There's really no excuse.

I think Glasgow are very underrated and could make an impact on the Heineken Cup next season provided they're in a decent group. They have a workman like pack with a solid set piece, along with some serious firepower in the backs. Players like Maitland and Hogg would make the 23 of most sides in Europe. I don't think Munster were that bad but giving away three intercept tries has nothing to do with targeting a cup tie the following week.

.ak · 17-04-2013 09:29PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Yes, there's no doubt on paper we should have done better, but sometimes I wonder are the players up for it. For instance, were they really that bad v Glasgow, or were they eyeing the much bigger match the following week.
In England, you have to fight off relegation, try for the H Cup or the playoffs, so there's nearly always something to play for for every team.

Are you defining a difference between players not being up for it and a team being bad? They're one in the same imo. Where Munster sit on the table of their 'domestic' league is a barometer of just how good a season they've had. The H-Cup is essentially knock out rugby from the first round, so it's not indicative of how a team's overall performance in a season, imo.

Cookiemunster · 17-04-2013 09:34PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

Clermont are the loudest and most passionate fans in Europe. They never shut up and the noise they generate is incredible. I don't think unless they're winning the Munster fans will be heard at all.

Thats sounds like a challenge! Turn your telly up loud on the 27th and you'll hear us

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 09:36PM

.ak wrote: »

Are you defining a difference between players not being up for it and a team being bad? They're one in the same imo. Where Munster sit on the table of their 'domestic' league is a barometer of just how good a season they've had. The H-Cup is essentially knock out rugby from the first round, so it's not indicative of how a team's overall performance in a season, imo.

I agree to a certain extent about a league being indicative of where you are, but the top 4 sort of dilutes that. Do you even need to finish top sort of mentality.

For the top teams like Mun/Lein/Ulster, it's all about the H Cup. Take Chelsea last season, poor league campaign, but won the CL, = best season in their history.

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 09:38PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster more than any other team I know go on about "playing for the jersey". Now if that doesn't manifest itself in a game then they're not doing what they're being paid for. There's really no excuse.

I think Glasgow are very underrated and could make an impact on the Heineken Cup next season provided they're in a decent group. They have a workman like pack with a solid set piece, along with some serious firepower in the backs. Players like Maitland and Hogg would make the 23 of most sides in Europe. I don't think Munster were that bad but giving away three intercept tries has nothing to do with targeting a cup tie the following week.

I too think Glasgow are underrated, must have a look actually and see how they did in this yr's competition. And it's very welcome to see up there in the playoffs.

.ak · 17-04-2013 09:40PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent about a league being indicative of where you are, but the top 4 sort of dilutes that. Do you even need to finish top sort of mentality.

For the top teams like Mun/Lein/Ulster, it's all about the H Cup. Take Chelsea last season, poor league campaign, but won the CL, = best season in their history.

CL isn't exactly comparable, because of the number of games, away legs etc., etc. But I get where you're coming from...

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 09:44PM

.ak wrote: »

CL isn't exactly comparable, because of the number of games, away legs etc., etc. But I get where you're coming from...

What I'd like to see really is a European super league, both in football and rugby. Then, every match would be top class, and then whoever wins it is undoubtedly the best.

Clareman · 17-04-2013 09:45PM

I backed Glasgow for the Rabo on a local GAA thing recently, they are going about their business nice and quietly although the loss to Scarlets was a big impact to them, I can't for the life for me understand why Ulster have nominated the RDS for the final, anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.

For me this season has been a mixed bag, qualifying as the best runners up was never good, but last season we qualified as top seeds and lost the quarter final. We've a new coach and captain this year and we have also brought through an awful awful lot of young players, some have been successful (ToD, LoD) others not so much (Williams), but we've tried players and know a lot more now about them. Lets be honest, for Munster it's all about the HEC, 2 years ago when we won the Magners at home it all seemed a bit runners up prize.

Positives I would have for the season would be:
We have cover now in almost every position.
We have leaders now in almost every line.
We have a backup 10.
We are in the HEC Semi Final.
Players have gained an awful lot of experience this season, after throwing away an away win in France they could have completely fallen apart, now they are 80 minutes from a HEC Final.

IMVHO Rob Penney has done excellently well in his first season in charge. In his first season in charge he's had to take over a team in decline and have a coaching staff forced on him, he was without his forwards coach for most of the season and has still managed to get the team to a semi-final.

Cookiemunster · 17-04-2013 09:45PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent about a league being indicative of where you are, but the top 4 sort of dilutes that. Do you even need to finish top sort of mentality.

For the top teams like Mun/Lein/Ulster, it's all about the H Cup. Take Chelsea last season, poor league campaign, but won the CL, = best season in their history.

But if they lost the final they wouldn't have even been in the CL this year. They finished 5th in the the league. Even with the FA Cup it would have been seen as a poor season by their standards.
I know that if we won the Heineken it would be seen as a great season, but if we lose to Clermont then quite simply it's been a poor season. The league is the bread and butter and some of the performances have been unacceptable. At this stage with 2 games to play we can still be caught by Connacht and Treviso FFS!

Clareman · 17-04-2013 09:46PM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Thats sounds like a challenge! Turn your telly up loud on the 27th and you'll hear us

Bring a Boards.ie banner and get spotted on TV with it and I'll organise Subscriber access for you

thomond2006 · 17-04-2013 09:47PM

Rightwing wrote: »

What I'd like to see really is a European super league, both in football and rugby. Then, every match would be top class, and then whoever wins it is undoubtedly the best.

As has been said before, the French would never consider it. The Top14 is too prestigous as it is and a change would be unpopular IMO.

Clareman · 17-04-2013 09:50PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent about a league being indicative of where you are, but the top 4 sort of dilutes that. Do you even need to finish top sort of mentality.

For the top teams like Mun/Lein/Ulster, it's all about the H Cup. Take Chelsea last season, poor league campaign, but won the CL, = best season in their history.

In Ulster win the Rabo, Leinster win the Amlin and Munster win the HEC who will have been deemed to have had the best season?

I've had the argument in the local a couple of times, Cup rugby is the only 1 you can compare with soccer, for the League teams will be without ALL their best players for ~a third of the season and teams will be resting players at other stages, only when you get to Cup games will you have teams all putting their best teams out against each other. The HEC for the best team, the Rabo for the best Squad and the Amlin for ......

Clareman · 17-04-2013 09:50PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

As has been said before, the French would never consider it. The Top14 is too prestigous as it is and a change would be unpopular IMO.

Aye, what Thomond said, there is way way way too much money and history i the Top 14 for them to change anything about it.

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 09:56PM

Clareman wrote: »

In Ulster win the Rabo, Leinster win the Amlin and Munster win the HEC who will have been deemed to have had the best season?

I've had the argument in the local a couple of times, Cup rugby is the only 1 you can compare with soccer, for the League teams will be without ALL their best players for ~a third of the season and teams will be resting players at other stages, only when you get to Cup games will you have teams all putting their best teams out against each other. The HEC for the best team, the Rabo for the best Squad and the Amlin for ......

I couldn't agree more with you.
But unfortunately the draw hasn't been kind to us. But even getting to semi's has made our season as far as I'm concerned.

thomond2006 · 17-04-2013 09:59PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with you.
But unfortunately the draw hasn't been kind to us. But even getting to semi's has made our season as far as I'm concerned.

The draw was kind to us in the group stages.

.ak · 17-04-2013 09:59PM

Clareman wrote: »

The HEC for the best team, the Rabo for the best Squad and the Amlin for ......

... best haircuts?

Rightwing · 17-04-2013 10:01PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

The draw was kind to us in the group stages.

Yes and No.

2 teams from our group are in the semi's. That can't be deemed easy group. I admit we were lucky to get Quins, but other teams may not have been able to turn them over.

Clareman · 17-04-2013 10:01PM

Knock out rugby and all that, last year we had a great draw and couldn't beat the (technically) worst team in the first knock out round. IMHO this team is more suited to playing away at the moment as they get to get more focused earlier.

Clareman · 17-04-2013 10:02PM

.ak wrote: »

... best haircuts?

Ah come on, any competition with Ian Madigan's hair in it is always going to win that prize.

SomeFool · 17-04-2013 10:40PM

Clareman wrote: »

IThe HEC for the best team, the Rabo for the best Squad and the Amlin for ......

getting Connacht back into the H cup next season!

buck65 · 18-04-2013 07:28AM

The Amlin is a bit like the Charity Shield, people care at the time but soon forget the winners.

Heineken Cup is everything. Rabo is used for developing a squad.

totallegend · 18-04-2013 08:02AM

buck65 wrote: »

The Amlin is a bit like the Charity Shield, people care at the time but soon forget the winners.

Heineken Cup is everything. Rabo is used for developing a squad.

I don't know, I think the idea of putting hc runners up into the Amlin was a good one and has raised the level of interest a bit so I'd be optimistic that its profile will increase over time.

Rightwing · 18-04-2013 09:22AM

totallegend wrote: »

I don't know, I think the idea of putting hc runners up into the Amlin was a good one and has raised the level of interest a bit so I'd be optimistic that its profile will increase over time.

Nah, they're desperately trying to do something with a competition that few care about. They copied the UEFA cup in football, dropping teams down from the CL trying to boost it's profile. Nice to win it, but that's it.

phog · 18-04-2013 09:30AM

totallegend wrote: »

I don't know, I think the idea of putting hc runners up into the Amlin was a good one and has raised the level of interest a bit so I'd be optimistic that its profile will increase over time.

Yes, but has any of the the original Amlin teams ever made it through as a winner since they added the H/C teams? It must be tough on the wearker teams of they manage to get to the knockout stages and then have to meet the likes of Leinster.

thomond2006 · 18-04-2013 09:34AM

phog wrote: »

Yes, but has any of the the original Amlin teams ever made it through as a winner since they added the H/C teams? It must be tough on the wearker teams of they manage to get to the knockout stages and then have to meet the likes of Leinster.

This is true, yet for those teams that host a quarter-final it means they are more than likely to be hosting a better side, meaning a better financial outcome. I'd say Wasps were more than happy to host Leinster rather than a Worcester or Bayonne.

Rightwing · 18-04-2013 09:41AM

phog wrote: »

Yes, but has any of the the original Amlin teams ever made it through as a winner since they added the H/C teams? It must be tough on the wearker teams of they manage to get to the knockout stages and then have to meet the likes of Leinster.

I think Quins won it, beating ourselves along the way. They certainly benefitted from it.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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