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Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

1…5354565859

Comments

  • #1652
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you 'do' in 'de City' but here's a quick lesson, banking deregulation followed from the Big Bang.
    Maggie was hell bent on reform of the financial markets because Britain wasn't getting a big enough share of the pie anymore. Thatcher believed that over regulation was the basis of the problem...so what did she do?...deregulated, thus enabled a frenzy of greed and a race to bust, this frenzy also saw the deregulation of banking which deepened and finally precipatated the current bust.

    yes because she (and Ronnie) were so ideologically opposed to communism, she committed a common mistake, she went too far in her "reforms".
    we are now living with the consequences of this overkill, and will be for some time to come.

    replacing one failed extreme ideology with another is not an answer, and in doing so she caused much unnecessary hardship imo.


  • #1653
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Playboy wrote: »
    Get back in your box would ya. Major social change.. Are we going to give communism another go and hope it works out this time?
    Communism my ass ..social change through democracy but even the civil rights marches in America ,South Africa and NI had riots .

    The London riots were full of scumbags whose first port of call was to steal televisions and playstations.... Viva la revolution
    You don't say. ..and here's me thinking it was all for the good of the downtrodden common man :rolleyes:

    If in the future sometime , people protest and riot on the streets of London or any other British city over the policy's of this present government it won't be because they want silly PlayStations and Television's ( much bigger than that old chap ) it will be to get rid of the shyster's who run the country .


  • #1654
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    space_man wrote: »
    yes because she (and Ronnie) were so ideologically opposed to communism, she committed a common mistake, she went too far in her "reforms".
    we are now living with the consequences of this overkill, and will be for some time to come.

    replacing one failed extreme ideology with another is not an answer, and in doing so she caused much unnecessary hardship imo.

    Another oft repeated myth. It was Gordon Brown that went too far with de-regulation.


  • #1655
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Playboy wrote: »
    The Big Bang didn't deregulate anything
    Do some basic research will you?
    http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Big+Bang
    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    It's not her fault that those that have come after don't have a mind of their own. If you're looking for something to blame, blame the weak character of today's politicians. Their inability to be their own man (or woman).

    Hard politics was needed at the time....it was a difficult situation with powerful vested interests that were facing her down. And the majority of Brits would agree that she did what needed to be done
    Playboy wrote: »
    Just lol... Not even worth it anymore if this is the level of discussion. Keep moaning while other people keep winning. See how far it gets you.

    You two have really bought the Tory spin that she was some sort of iron willed visionary, when in fact she was a tacky, capitalist opportunist. Having doubled unemployment within 18 months of being elected by a series of botches (including pay rises of 21% to the Unions she is famous for 'breaking':rolleyes:) she abandoned her Friedman inspired monetarist policy and embarked on a spending spree. All this within weeks of 'You may turn if you want to, the lady is not for turning'.

    Read some real history and facts and stop listening to David and the rest of the tories at the trough.


  • #1656
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    She did good things for Britain (or the rich) but mostly Thatcher brought hardship.
    Something had to be done but the way she handled the miners strike was appalling. She seemed to have a policy of as long as her rich southern buddies were ok who gives a f*ck about the rest, people starving on the streets of northern England and Scotland.
    I don't care what you say about their motives you can't let men starve to death in your jails and allow it without stepping in. Let's remember that due to the ridiculous law of internment there were many Irish men in prison who were innocent and as a result resentment and numbers grew in the IRA. Her attitude that the Irish are used to moving so why don't they just move again is unbelievable coming from the leader of a world superpower and shows a total lack of knowledge and respect for a race of people suppressed for 800 years by the Empire, ignorant is the word she gave an air of rudeness around the Ireland issue.
    Should i mention the allegations that under her government the army supplied arms to the loyalist side of the Troubles? She condoned the butchering of people in the UK by others in the UK.
    It's been well documented her support for the Khmer Rouge which again is disgusting.
    So too was her refusal to impose sanctions on the apartheid regime in South Africa and call the ANC terrorists.
    What about all those butchered when Britain backed the American invasion into democratically elected Nicaragua?
    She was a horrible person who looked after her own.


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  • #1657
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    She did good things for Britain (or the rich) but mostly Thatcher brought hardship.
    Something had to be done but the way she handled the miners strike was appalling. She seemed to have a policy of as long as her rich southern buddies were ok who gives a f*ck about the rest, people starving on the streets of northern England and Scotland.
    I don't care what you say about their motives you can't let men starve to death in your jails and allow it without stepping in. Let's remember that due to the ridiculous law of internment there were many Irish men in prison who were innocent and as a result resentment and numbers grew in the IRA. Her attitude that the Irish are used to moving so why don't they just move again is unbelievable coming from the leader of a world superpower and shows a total lack of knowledge and respect for a race of people suppressed for 800 years by the Empire, ignorant is the word she gave an air of rudeness around the Ireland issue.
    Should i mention the allegations that under her government the army supplied arms to the loyalist side of the Troubles? She condoned the butchering of people in the UK by others in the UK.
    It's been well documented her support for the Khmer Rouge which again is disgusting.
    So too was her refusal to impose sanctions on the apartheid regime in South Africa and call the ANC terrorists.
    What about all those butchered when Britain backed the American invasion into democratically elected Nicaragua?
    She was a horrible person who l.ooked after her own.
    In one sentence ...millions would agree


  • #1658
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Chuck Stone wrote: »



    Bollocks. As has been pointed out to you above Irish people have gone to England and been successful because of their education and competency.



    Stop tugging your forelock and put your cap back on man.

    Actually wouldn't people leave to work in a different country because they had better opportunities there than in the country they were educated in?

    Oh sorry forgot this thread is about how MT removed peoples opportunities, especially all these foreign immigrants coming into the UK that she hated so much....


  • #1659
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    Another oft repeated myth. It was Gordon Brown that went too far with de-regulation.

    yes and who did that sycophantic fool so sickeningly adore?
    to such an extent he practically creamed himself himself on the doorstep after having invited her to No.10?

    Answers on a postcard please.:D


  • #1660
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Do some basic research will you?
    http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Big+Bang

    I don't need to look at a dictionary to discuss the topic. You don't know what you are talking about... Your idea of the damage Thatcher did in respect to financial services and your 'understanding' of deregulation and its impact is non existent.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You two have really bought the Tory spin that she was some sort of iron willed visionary, when in fact she was a tacky, capitalist opportunist. Having doubled unemployment within 18 months of being elected by a series of botches (including pay rises of 21% to the Unions she is famous for 'breaking':rolleyes:) she abandoned her Friedman inspired monetarist policy and embarked on a spending spree. All this within weeks of 'You may turn if you want to, the lady is not for turning'.

    Read some real history and facts and stop listening to David and the rest of the tories at the trough.

    Keep googling mate... Just making yourself look stupid


  • #1661
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Do some basic research will you?
    http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Big+Bang





    You two have really bought the Tory spin that she was some sort of iron willed visionary, when in fact she was a tacky, capitalist opportunist. Having doubled unemployment within 18 months of being elected by a series of botches (including pay rises of 21% to the Unions she is famous for 'breaking':rolleyes:) she abandoned her Friedman inspired monetarist policy and embarked on a spending spree. All this within weeks of 'You may turn if you want to, the lady is not for turning'.

    Read some real history and facts and stop listening to David and the rest of the tories at the trough.

    And you've just bought into a load of uninformed rantings.

    We're you there in the 70s and 80s? I was. I was 12 in 1980 and remember the mess that was the place before she started fixing it. I was talking to my dad only today about life in England between 1975 and 1980.


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  • #1662
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    space_man wrote: »
    yes and who did that sycophantic fool so sickeningly adore?
    to such an extent he practically creamed himself himself on the doorstep after having invited her to No.10?

    Answers on a postcard please.:D

    And how is that thatcher's fault and not brown's?

    The way you guys spin this is just incredible!


  • #1663
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    And how is that thatcher's fault and not brown's?

    The way you guys spin this is just incredible!

    Spin? By your estimation the Chicken came before the Egg.


  • #1664
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    If I was the former leader of a country the least I would expect would be my followers to be out to pay their respects. everybody has their supporters (evident here). What should be the most stark observation is not the amount of people out paying respects that was to be expected, it's the amount out celebrating her death, out protesting at her funeral, the amount who stayed away from the funeral procession as they had no respects to pay.
    No minute silence at football games shows how highly the vast majority respected her. Which actually brings me nicely to the point of what a brilliant job her government did of blaming the Liverpool fans for the Hillsbrough disaster. She rather blame innocent individuals who lost their lives in a horrific event than see her police take the blame when they clearly screwed up big time.


  • #1665
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Here's a simple enough question for people.

    How many would have seriously considered buying a BLMC/Chrysler/Ford/Vauxhall car in the 70's/80's before buying a cheaper more reliable import?

    Maybe that will give you a clue as to where the manufacturing industries were heading anyway!


  • #1666
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    And you've just bought into a load of uninformed rantings.

    We're you there in the 70s and 80s? I was. I was 12 in 1980 and remember the mess that was the place before she started fixing it. I was talking to my dad only today about life in England between 1975 and 1980.

    Which is the mis-informed bit?

    Never mind your da's memory, did she or did she not, double unemployment within 18 months? Did she give a payrise of 21% to the Unions just after coming to power.
    Did she abandon her monetarist policy before her first mid term?
    A grubby opportunist in the pocket of the elite.


  • #1667
    Duck Soup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Here's a simple enough question for people.

    How many would have seriously considered buying a BLMC/Chrysler/Ford/Vauxhall car in the 70's/80's before buying a cheaper more reliable import?

    Maybe that will give you a clue as to where the manufacturing industries were heading anyway!

    I was there at the time. My dad had a Ford Cortina. His brother, who lived with us, an Austin Allegro.

    If you were around in the 70s, you'd know that the Japanese cars were considered (a) rustbuckets and (b) had engines the size of hairdyers.

    The most trusted manufacturer of the time would have been Ford. Datsun's reputation was so poxy they changed their name to Nissan.


  • #1668
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    The DailyBile earlier reported a crowd of 250,000.
    It's now saying 50,000 attended.
    FT says the "curious outnumbered the loyalists".
    Subtract the opponents from that and i suppose the true fig must be closer to 15,000, 20,000 max.

    Jasus Accrinton Stanley can pull that amount on a dreary Wednesday evening kickoff.


  • #1669
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Those here who say we who didn't live through the thatcher era don't know what we're talking about should see that all we're getting to know his her legacy. We can only go on what were told, and what we read about her, which is all negative about a devil lady who cared little about those outside of her class in southern England. the fact that all we get I'd negativity about her should show how poorly she is viewed by the majority.


  • #1670
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Duck Soup wrote: »
    I was there at the time. My dad had a Ford Cortina. His brother, who lived with us, an Austin Allegro.

    If you were around in the 70s, you'd know that the Japanese cars were considered (a) rustbuckets and (b) had engines the size of hairdyers.

    The most trusted manufacturer of the time would have been Ford. Datsun's reputation was so poxy they changed their name to Nissan.

    I was there at the time too, and it was clear where British manufacturing and the British economy was headed until Mrs T. came along. Do not take my word for it : google british car reliability 1970's and the first to come up is Wiki who says:
    The 1970s also saw the decline and practical failure of the British car industry – a combination of militant strikes and poor quality control effectively halted development at British Leyland, owner of all other British car companies during the 1970s.

    The Japanese automobile industry flourished during the 1970s, compared to other major auto markets. Japanese vehicles became internationally renowned for their affordability, reliability, and fuel-efficiency, which was very important to many customers due to the oil embargo. Japanese car manufacturing focused on computerized robotic manufacturing techniques and lean manufacturing, contributing to high-efficiency and low production costs. The Honda Civic was introduced in 1973, and sold well due to its high fuel-efficiency. Other popular compact cars included the Toyota Corolla and the Datsun Sunny, in addition to other cars from those companies and others such as Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Mazda


  • #1671
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Duck Soup wrote: »
    I was there at the time. My dad had a Ford Cortina. His brother, who lived with us, an Austin Allegro.

    If you were around in the 70s, you'd know that the Japanese cars were considered (a) rustbuckets and (b) had engines the size of hairdyers.

    The most trusted manufacturer of the time would have been Ford. Datsun's reputation was so poxy they changed their name to Nissan.

    That's pretty close to my own opinion, Datsun Sunny's coud be seen to rust before your eyes!


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  • #1672
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That's pretty close to my own opinion, Datsun Sunny's coud be seen to rust before your eyes!

    My bro in law bought a FIAT 128 in the earlymid '70s.
    There's still bits of it littered around his home town.:D


  • #1673
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    I like how I'm being ignored and instead the pro-Thatcher side are happy to pick arguments over topics where there is no way of fully proving them one way or the other.


  • #1674
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    If Thatcher's family and government had decided that her funeral would be a quite private affair then that would have gone down well with the majority of the public .The Anti - Thatcher people had their voices heard while millions more showed indifference and saw through the charade and circus for what it was .


  • #1675
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Those here who say we who didn't live through the thatcher era don't know what we're talking about should see that all we're getting to know his her legacy. We can only go on what were told, and what we read about her, which is all negative about a devil lady who cared little about those outside of her class in southern England. the fact that all we get I'd negativity about her should show how poorly she is viewed by the majority.

    It's not all negative, I don't remember her either I was born in 88. You have to take a balanced approach when studying history that you didn't live through. Try to read objective primary sources and beware of bias and propaganda.


  • #1676
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    space_man wrote: »
    My bro in law bought a FIAT 128 in the earlymid '70s.
    There's still bits of it littered around his home town.:D

    FIAT = Fix It Again Tomorrow


  • #1677
    tomasocarthaigh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭tomasocarthaigh


    She will not be missed. Saw the film - they released it too early!!! - on her life, she was quite a leader and quite a woman, but then again Hitler was quite a man.

    She broke the little man to make the big man richer. Poor people were to be put in their place.

    She done worse to the English working classes than to us Irish, she had a willing fifth column here in the ranks of FF/FG, both of whom hated PIRA more than she did.

    Bad cess to her, and shes suffering now for hurting the least in society.

    As usual, I've a verse on the topic of her burial and passing, a satire as fits a low life like her!!!


  • #1678
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Actually wouldn't people leave to work in a different country because they had better opportunities there than in the country they were educated in?

    Yes.
    Oh sorry forgot this thread is about how MT removed peoples opportunities,

    Some prospered and some didn't.
    especially all these foreign immigrants coming into the UK that she hated so much....

    What?


  • #1679
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    FIAT = Fix It Again Tomorrow

    BMW=Big Money Worries!

    i know i just got my 5 Series serviced last week.:(


  • #1680
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That's pretty close to my own opinion, Datsun Sunny's coud be seen to rust before your eyes!

    I worked for an engine components manufacturer in the late eighties when the Japanese were moving in and their quality control and supply chain philosophy blew us away.

    Ford insisted we implemented SPC and gave is two years to do it, then ****ed off and left us to it. Nisssan wanted us to improve quality and offered training and assistance so we could get it right. Totally different mindset.


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  • #1681
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    It's not all negative, I don't remember her either I was born in 88. You have to take a balanced approach when studying history that you didn't live through. Try to read objective primary sources and beware of bias and propaganda.

    I'm 1992 and I'm afraid all the way through school whether it was teachers or textbooks, the Internet, or word from those who did live through her time none of it was positive.
    My dad was originally from Belfast, attended Methody so was quite well off and a loyalist without ever seeing the need for violence. Even he his very much against her policies domestic or foreign.


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