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Clermont vs Munster buildup thread **read post one

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Comments

  • #122
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Penney's master plan unveiled... ROG was playing more flat v Quins but in the first half his passing wasn't accurate enough and he was doing more harm than good by being that flat. As I say he improved but Keatley is surely the better option at this stage, if for nothing else but the element of surprise..

    Dropping ROG for Keatley would be reminiscent of when TOL came in for Strings in 2008. Could very well be the catalysis for a Munster win as I'd say they have a slightly better chance with Keatley starting rather than ROG.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #123
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Penney's master plan unveiled... ROG was playing more flat v Quins but in the first half his passing wasn't accurate enough and he was doing more harm than good by being that flat. As I say he improved but Keatley is surely the better option at this stage, if for nothing else but the element of surprise..

    He had a few bad kicks as well. I think he tried to force a bit sometimes, and he wasted some good attacking possession.

    He was pretty good overall in fairness to him though. I would love to see Keatley get the nod for the semi though. I think he just works much better in the system and is playing with a lot of confidence this year.


  • #124
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Just going back to the game on Saturday... If I was a coach, I'd find it very hard not to pick Keatley for this game. He was outstanding on Saturday, my MoTM.


  • #125
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Clermont by 1-10
    .ak wrote: »
    Just going back to the game on Saturday... If I was a coach, I'd find it very hard not to pick Keatley for this game. He was outstanding on Saturday, my MoTM.

    I got the impression Lenihan thought Keatley (or possibly TOD) were going to be MOTM actually and would have been had Munster won. His selection of Boss seemed a bit last minute and not very accurate (he had a great final 20, but his first 60 was middling).


  • #126
    who_me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Munster by more than 10
    One thing I'd definitely say - if we do substitute 10 at any point in the game, I'd rather we start with Keatley and bring ROG on than vice versa.

    Barring injury, we only tend to swap 10s when our pack is being mullered and we see a half-back change as some kind of magic bullet. In that situation I'd rather bring on ROG to kick over their pack, than Keatley to try and force a running game behind a beaten pack.


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  • #127
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I got the impression Lenihan thought Keatley (or possibly TOD) were going to be MOTM actually and would have been had Munster won. His selection of Boss seemed a bit last minute and not very accurate (he had a great final 20, but his first 60 was middling).

    That's what I thought too re: Boss.

    Anyhow, I suppose if Munster want to play the game they did versus Quins they'll go with ROG. But in reality, you'll be looking for a super charged team for that, and you'll also need the back row to be on their toes. I thought Munster looked quite handy with Keatley running behind the first receiver and passing it to the awaiting midfield/wing combo who sat a 5m deeper. Created little moments of space for them to run onto it with pace. Caused Leinster all sorts of problems. Would it work against Clermont? I don't know, but they certainly won't expect it.


  • #128
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    Clermont by 1-10
    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    Did you cheer for Northampton in 2011? SOB being involved in the final was surely a massive and grossly unfair boost by your standards.

    Totally different scenario. If ever an elbow in the snout was deserved then Nyanga deserved one for his blatant cheating.

    Edit : Actually looking at it again, SOB broke off before ball exited scrum :o


  • #129
    Teferi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Totally different scenario. If ever an elbow in the snout was deserved then Nyanga deserved one for his blatant cheating.

    Sorry I'll have to stop you there, I can't have you bringing facts into the discussion.


  • #130
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    Teferi wrote: »
    Sorry I'll have to stop you there, I can't have you bringing facts into the discussion.

    Facts like the blatant double standards on display? Gothca


  • #131
    Tox56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    As tedious as this debate is, if Toulouse had got to the final because of that try it would have been just as much of an injustice


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  • #132
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Do people read the warnings, or stickies, and just think we're posting them for a giggle? No more about the POC incident, or related incidents used to discuss it remotely.


  • #133
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Teferi wrote: »
    Sorry I'll have to stop you there, I can't have you bringing facts into the discussion.

    Its nonsense.

    Nyanga didn't deserve it. SOB was massively lucky.

    The whole thing is just the RDP12 trying to prevent teams resting key players in these pre-European fixtures.


  • #134
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Munster by more than 10
    A fit ROG will almost certainly start. He is a driving force for the squad in the run up to the game and having him on the bench may dampen that.

    Agree that he would be better to bring on during a game then visa versa with Keatley.


  • #135
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    .ak wrote: »
    Just going back to the game on Saturday... If I was a coach, I'd find it very hard not to pick Keatley for this game. He was outstanding on Saturday, my MoTM.

    Agree with you there, he was very good at dictating the play for Munster all game.

    Can he afford to spend another season of riding the pine though. He's at a pivitol time in his career and is good enough to be starting for a number of big clubs.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #136
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    A fit ROG will almost certainly start. He is a driving force for the squad in the run up to the game and having him on the bench may dampen that.

    Can't agree with you there - the only player that has an effect on the Munster team at the moment is Paulie. Since his been back the team has kicked into gear. ROG has pretty much been at the 'helm' of this Munster squad throughout a terribly poor season. I think people are looking at the Quins game as some sort of justification of having ROG on the team. POC was the reason they played well. ROG was fairly well protected behind 14 mad Munster men for the entire game. People have short memories... He's had some absolute dire performances this year that's cost Munster a shed load of points.


  • #137
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,381 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    .ak wrote: »
    Can't agree with you there - the only player that has an effect on the Munster team at the moment is Paulie. Since his been back the team has kicked into gear. ROG has pretty much been at the 'helm' of this Munster squad throughout a terribly poor season. I think people are looking at the Quins game as some sort of justification of having ROG on the team. POC was the reason they played well. ROG was fairly well protected behind 14 mad Munster men for the entire game. People have short memories... He's had some absolute dire performances this year that's cost Munster a shed load of points.

    It's easy to forget just how unbelievably good an in form POC is due to all his injuries woes.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #138
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Munster by more than 10
    I also think a fit ROG will start, not sure what my preference is. Pros and cons for both.


  • #139
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    Clermont by 1-10
    Rightwing wrote: »
    I also think a fit ROG will start, not sure what my preference is. Pros and cons for both.

    Okay. What are your pros for starting ROG?


  • #140
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Munster by more than 10
    yosser hughes wrote: »
    Okay. What are your pros for starting ROG?

    For: He has the experience of the big day, reliable with the boot.

    Against: Very weak in defense, and not as creative as Keatley.


  • #141
    budhabob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,289 ✭✭✭budhabob


    Munster by more than 10
    Rightwing wrote: »
    For: He has the experience of the big day, reliable with the boot.

    Against: Very weak in defense, and not as creative as Keatley.

    So the only thing keatley lacks in comparison is experience.....only one way to get it.

    I'd love to see keatley start for his own sake....and the teams.


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  • #142
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,269 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Clermont by 1-10
    The problem with ROG is that he's a waste of a shirt when you don't have the ball, which I suspect will be a considerable amount of the game in France.

    What you gain for his ability to slot penalties and conversions you lose in open play. Suppose it's a balancing act.


  • #143
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    Clermont by 1-10
    Rightwing wrote: »
    For: He has the experience of the big day, reliable with the boot.

    Against: Very weak in defense, and not as creative as Keatley.

    Fair enough I suppose but surely there comes a point when "experience of the big day" isn't enough?
    I really think starting Keatley is the best chance Munster have.
    With O'Gara there I think Clermont will run amok tbh.


  • #144
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Munster by more than 10
    yosser hughes wrote: »
    Fair enough I suppose but surely there comes a point when "experience of the big day" isn't enough?
    I really think starting Keatley is the best chance Munster have.
    With O'Gara there I think Clermont will run amok tbh.

    I agree, I'm not saying I want to see ROG there, it's just I could see the rationale behind it if Penney picks him.


  • #145
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,067 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Another use for RoG is that he's a great decoy, a lot of defences will line up to attack him but he's not always used as first receiver. His kicking from hand is still also fairly top notch.

    I'd much prefer to have him coming on as a sub and I was very annoyed when he missed his second kick against Quins, but I've no problem with him starting.


  • #146
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Munster by 1-10
    awec wrote: »
    The problem with ROG is that he's a waste of a shirt when you don't have the ball, which I suspect will be a considerable amount of the game in France.

    What you gain for his ability to slot penalties and conversions you lose in open play. Suppose it's a balancing act.

    I doubt he has a better kicking percentage than Keatley this season.

    ROG is obviously going to start, absolutely no question.


  • #147
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,067 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    danthefan wrote: »
    I doubt he has a better kicking percentage than Keatley this season.

    ROG is obviously going to start, absolutely no question.

    Not much in it really, Keatly 40 from 48 (83.33%) RoG 33 from 40 (82.5%) in the Rabo,


  • #148
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    Munster by more than 10
    Clareman wrote: »
    Not much in it really, Keatly 40 from 48 (83.33%) RoG 33 from 40 (82.5%) in the Rabo,

    It will boil down to mental toughness for major games like this which Rog has in spades. After missing the first two kicks in the Quinns game, alot of other kickers would have bottled it, but he came back and slotted them all over. Keatley is a more exciting, dangerous player, better defender , runner etc. But he will still start ROG IMO.


  • #149
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Clermont by 1-10
    duckysauce wrote: »
    It will boil down to mental toughness for major games like this which Rog has in spades. After missing the first two kicks in the Quinns game, alot of other kickers would have bottled it, but he came back and slotted them all over. Keatley is a more exciting, dangerous player, better defender , runner etc. But he will still start ROG IMO.

    While I appreciate his mental toughness (and I genuinely do, its absolutely top class) it also boils down to not making mistakes. Clermont will thrive on both missed (or poor) tackles and any wayward kicks. It also takes some invention to break down their defence and I'm not sure kicks to the corner and kick and chase will do the job.


  • #150
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Clermont by 1-10
    That Clermont back line must be close to the best attacking unit in the NH at club or national level. Space seems to open up in front of them. Munster will have to keep it very tight. This could be Downey's moment to shine - or at least to stop others shining.


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  • #151
    twinytwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Munster by more than 10
    Ardillaun wrote: »
    That Clermont back line must be close to the best attacking unit in the NH at club or national level. Space seems to open up in front of them. Munster will have to keep it very tight. This could be Downey's moment to shine - or at least to stop others shining.

    We are going to need super line speed for 80 mins, tbh i dont know if we have it in the legs. I can see us going toe to toe for 60 mins and losing in the last 20.

    To have any chance Downey and Casey are going to have to play the game of their lives. The backrow will have to play like they did the last 2 games and ROG cant afford to miss anything


This discussion has been closed.
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