Keeping chickens in the suburbs

bluecherry74 · 04-04-2013 01:14PM #1

Hi All,

My first post in this forum. I've been thinking about keeping a couple of chickens for ages now and I'm ready to take the plunge. I'll be getting 2 to 3, mainly for laying but also for the pleasure of it.

I'm not sure which type of coop/run set up would be the best as there are so many to choose from. Can anyone recommend something compact that would give the chickens enough room to wander around during the day while I'm work, while still keeping them secure? I've been looking at these:

http://www.adverts.ie/other/henly-chicken-coop/1350696
http://www.greenhenworks.com/Loft%20Details.htm
http://www.oldmcdonald.ie/products/orpington-chicken-coop-hen-house.php

Ideally I'd also like to be able to let them out for a wander around the garden for an hour during the summer evenings.

I have 2 cats and 2 dogs. How do they generally mix with hens? The dogs are in a secure run during the day and won't be able to go near the chickens, however they're quite excitable and I'm worried they'll frighten the living daylights out of the chickens. The cats are free to wander, so whichever set-up I choose would need to be cat proof.

Finally, do hens need grass or will dirt and gravel work?

Thanks!

SligoEdo · 05-04-2013 12:55AM

Hi Bluecherry,

Chickens are great, and their eggs are fantastic when they're so fresh.

As for which house/run to buy...I'd say get the one that will give the chicks the most amount of outside space. They only use the roost area at night, so there's not too much point in having this overly large. Whichever one you choose, make sure to move it about so the chicks get a bit of fresh land to scratch around on every few days.

Letting them out when you're there is a great idea, it's great craic watching them wander around the place. We have 8 chickens and 4 cats....they're fine together. One of our cats likes to sit with the chicks when we throw them some bread, and he eats the bread with them. Sometimes one of the cats will start to "stalk" a chicken, but because chickens are big (compared to a cat), the cat normally chickens out of an attack. We've never had any cats attack our chickens in almost 2 years. No idea about the dogs though..but I'm sure if they're introduced gradually, they should be ok.

Hens will scratch about on anything. Although I do think grass is better, they tend to eat some grass, and there would be more bugs and insects to scratch up on grass. If you leave the on the same patch of grass long enough, they'll scratch it down to bare earth. Dirt and gravel will work but there would be more chance of them injuring themselves on sharp gravel. If you have grass, let them use it.

Two final things 1) make sure to give them some grit. They need it to help digest their food. You can get it in most pet shops. 2) They poo a lot....and you might not think it to look at them...but they are ****ting machines. Great for the compost heap though, or let them wander among your flower beds in winter. They'll manure it all for you.

Have great fun with your chickens.

By the way....we have blackrock and bluebell breeds. Both are excellent layers.

bluecherry74 · 06-04-2013 04:59PM

Thanks very much for the info, SligoEdo! I've decided to go for an Ark style coop with a run attached. This should give them enough room during the day and I'll let then free range in the evening and at weekends when I'm there to supervise.

Unfortunately I don't have any grass at all so I'll have to make do with earth. I've seen a few photos where people have put their coops on a large raised bed of earth and I'm thinking of doing the same. Obviously I'd have to clean it out regularly and give them a fresh layer of earth and mulch. On the plus side, the stuff I dig out will make nice fertilizer for my veggies.

I looked up Blackrock and Bluebelles and they look great! I also love Leghorns. I'll only have room for two or three but I'd like different breeds, just for the fun of watching them.

Iyaibeji · 07-04-2013 10:10AM

Good choice to go with the ark.
I have the coop in your first pic, someone gave it to me.
It is not the best to be honest, very light and the roof blew off it in strong winds.

We have 3 hens in our back garden. They are fantastic and are so funny to watch.
They do poop a lot and have every blade of grass gone, but we didnt mind as the bare soil fits in with a plan we have to rejig the garden about.

Soon mine will be going into a 10x8 enclosed run and will free range only when conditions are dry and we are there to keep an eye on them.

If you have any plans to put in a vegetable patch or even a flower bed put their run on this piece of ground for a while and they will soon have the ground prepared for you!

aonb · 08-04-2013 03:18PM

BlueCherry, the most important aspect of your coop/ark is to get the BIGGEST possible run space. The house is only for sleeping and laying in, so as long as it protects them from draughts (bad!) and rain, and has a perch for them to roost in overnight and at least 1 nestbox (line this with straw to make it cosy) thats all they need.. Ive kept hens for years - they are basically pets, with the added bonus of providing lovely fresh eggs - but they really really really need the space if they are penned in all day (except when you let them free range). They will eat grass, and just about any other plant they see!

They will get used to your barking dogs, so dont worry. They cats should not be any problem either.
When you get your new hens, put them into the coop and shut the door for a couple of hours. Then open the door, and let the find their way out themselves. If they find their way out of the coop, they will find it easier to go in then when its dusk/bed-time. Sometimes you will have to gently pick them up and pop them into the coop, until they get used to it as 'home'

You need to get Layers Pellets for feed. If its very cold, a little handful of mixed grain in the evenings keeps them warm overnight (stays in their crops longer) I always add hot water to the pellets to make a 'mash' - they much prefer this. But if your hens have been fed pellets by the breeder, introduce this slowly til they get used to it. ALWAYS have water available to them. Its better to have 3 hens rather than 2, because if 1 dies, then you wont have a lonely single hen left! Lets see, what else... once you start feeding them scraps/kitchen waste, they will only want to eat that

and you will rue the day you started spoiling them! Layers pellets is the perfect food for hens, and anything else is not really nutritionally good for them. Salt is really bad for them (cheap bread is full of salt for example) They adore cooked rice and pasta and tomatos and cooked veg. Never give them raw potato. Google for a list of food that you should never give hens. As some1 else mentioned, GRIT is very important - stored in their crops to break down food. You will probably need to worm them twice/year. Remove any food from their run at night or you might attract vermin. Hybrids will produce more eggs than pure breeds (and are tougher?!) but wont look so pretty!

Good luck when you get them - they are totally addictive, and you will love having them!

bluecherry74 · 08-04-2013 03:31PM

Iyaibeji wrote: »

Good choice to go with the ark.
I have the coop in your first pic, someone gave it to me.
It is not the best to be honest, very light and the roof blew off it in strong winds.

One of the reasons I decided against that type is because they look like cheap imported kits. Most of the arks I've come across seems to be made in Ireland, so would inspire a bit more confidence.

aonb wrote: »

BlueCherry, the most important aspect of your coop/ark is to get the BIGGEST possible run space.

The one thing that worries me the most is that they won't have enough space. I want happy, healthy hens. The ark I'm looking at has around 40 sq ft of run space, with the ark over part of it. Realistically, would that be enough for 3 hens? I'd be worried about letting them free range when I'm not there. My dogs are in an enclosed run and wouldn't be able to get near the, but I'd worry about my cats as well as visiting cats.

Iyaibeji · 08-04-2013 07:26PM

The min space recommended is 4sq ft per chicken in the coop, and 10sqft each in the run.
I would go bigger than this if you can though.

Ours free range, but only when we are home.

theparish · 08-04-2013 08:16PM

Just to add my 2 cents,things I have learned down through the years.If red mite gets in to a coop made with tongued and grooved joints or where there are alot of joints then they are almost impossible to get rid of.I would not wish red mite on any chicken coop,they also love felt roofs.Also most of the flat pack coops have the nest boxes close to the roost.The hens will favour sleeping in the nest box,therefore
crapping in the nest box leading to dirty eggs.Keeping hens can be addictive,you start off with 2 and end up with 8.They need to have access to ground that they can scratch and they will tare it to shreds especially a small area,ideally they should have grass to eat,if not try and give them some grass clippings cut up.You can grow a small patch through small wire mesh,this will stop them from tearing it up and allows the grass to grow while being eaten. Grit is a must if they are not free ranging and access to water 24/7 as well as layers pellets.They will eat almost anything but just give them carbs as a treat.They are great craic to look at and the eggs are damn tasty but they do crap 5000 times a day.

aonb · 08-04-2013 08:24PM

What does 40 sq ft translate to in length by width???

I started out, 8 years ago,with the idea of keeping my hens in an ark, and the plan was to move it about the garden onto fresh grass as needed, and to let them free range when I was at home.
Once I put them into the tiny area of the ark I knew it wasnt going to work.
Im lucky, I have over an acre, so the impact of the hens (6) on the garden is minimal. (apart from poo everywhere!) so they now free range all day. My husband is great at DIY so he built a walk in run thats about 35ft by 35ft which they are in at night (their coop is in there) and when we are away for the day/on holidays etc.
Hens graze & scratch all day long. They dont sit about sleeping. They will get bored and start plucking feathers and pecking each other if they are cooped into a tiny space all day long.
Can you forget the idea of an ark, and just buy a coop and get a walk in run built in the corner or some part of your garden? That way, the hens will be able to move about. You can put in a tyre filled with sand/grit for a dustbath, put in a few branches/perches etc for them to climb on, a covered area for them to shelter from rain, and generally have happier hens?? I would also recommend that if you go this route, allocate the maximum space as you possibly can to it, and put a net 'roof' on it to keep wild birds (i.e. crows/magpies) out!

bluecherry74 · 09-04-2013 01:14PM

theparish wrote: »

Just to add my 2 cents,things I have learned down through the years.

Thanks, some good things to keep in mind! I did consider the Eglu plastic coops because of red mite, but I much prefer the look (and the price!) of the timber ones. The one I'm looking at doesn't have a felt roof so that's at least one thing in it's favour. Good tip about growing grass through a wire mesh - I'll definitely give that a go.

aonb wrote: »

What does 40 sq ft translate to in length by width???

You're really making me think twice about my set up, so thank you for that!

I'd love a walk in run, but the way my garden is laid out there's no corner to build one. I live in a typical suburban house with a slightly larger than average garden. One side has a 45 degree slope running the full length. The other side has my dog run running the full length. And the bottom of my garden has a new flower bed and shrubs (or it will have eventually). So a free standing solution is the only one that will work for now.

40 sq feet is only 4ft x 10ft, which I now realise is tiny.

The guy I'm thinking of getting the ark from also does a longer run though, and that combined with a bigger ark could give me a space of 4ft x 20ft - twice what I originally had in mind. It's still on the small side, but would 3 hens be happy with that area?

This is the ark I'm leaning towards - "The Big One" with "The Long Run" attached:

Snip
Rude Images

Iyaibeji · 09-04-2013 01:19PM

40sq ft would be fine for 3 birds.
The recommended amount is 10sq ft per bird, so you would have an extra 10sq foot on top of that.

I think you should check out backyardchickens.com you'll get plenty of ideas there.

Iyaibeji · 09-04-2013 01:22PM

Only thing about the ark, because of the triangle shape of the run, the very sides of it is not useful space really.
If you had an arc and rigged up a rectangle run for it the chickens would be even happier.

aonb · 10-04-2013 09:21AM

Iyaibeji wrote: »

Only thing about the ark, because of the triangle shape of the run, the very sides of it is not useful space really.
If you had an arc and rigged up a rectangle run for it the chickens would be even happier.

this makes sense! just think, these hens are going to be cooped up in this space all day, except when you let them free range. They will decimate the ground its lying on in a couple of days. Another consideration is that with the coop overhead, it will be quite dark - egg production is dependant on the hours of daylight.
Absolutely your choice of course, but I did have an ark when I first got my hens, and in hindsight it was really NOT a good option. As Iyaibeji says, a rectangular shape - they can climb on branches/roosts that you can rig up in there - would be an optimum use of your limited space. The triangular space means that you have to bend down really low to get at food/drink containers, which because of the sloping sides get easily knocked over! This sounds very negative, but if you are a softie like me you will want your hens to have a decent environment! They become pets quickly, and they just hate being cooped into small places.

Agree that the egglu is crazy price - wonder can you get 2nd hand online?!? - the dreaded redmite is a consideration. I didnt have them for about 6 years, but wage a constant battle against them now. Something I didnt think of, but some friends have, is a plastic shed/fuel box thing from B&Q or Woodies that they have rigged up with roost and nest boxes - looks fab and they just swill it out with disinfectant roof to floor every few weeks! (I've asked my friend to pass me on her daughters wendy/playhouse when shes finished with it - make a cute henhouse!!)

sancerredave · 10-04-2013 11:23AM

Hi Bluecherry
This too is my first post, and I like you have been thinking about keeping chickens. I just bought my coop on Amazon, which is much cheaper. Most sites say they dont send to Ireland. However if you register with "Parcel Motel" you can use their Northern Ireland address, and they will then deliver it to their nearest depot in the Republic, where you can collect it. It costs €7 extra, but its well worth it. Its also brilliant for small packages which will be delivered to 1 of 100 locations around the country.
Also bought Chickens for Dummies. Great advice and very practical.

Naraka · 10-04-2013 12:43PM

There's a forum called fowl.ie. Have a look at it. Lots of advice on all aspects of poultry keeping and lots of experienced poultry keepers on there too who are willing to give advice.

Chicken Run · 10-04-2013 02:18PM

+1 for the eglu as a first poultry house.

A doddle to keep clean - once over with a jet washer (or hose and brush) and lasts forever... secondhand ones are available, keep your eyes open.

Only problem is they're not big enough for more than 3 hens... so when you invariably succumb to more.......

bluecherry74 · 15-04-2013 01:32PM

Just thought I'd update this thread with my progress.

I've decided to go ahead and get a proper fixed run built. It'll be about 6ft x 18ft which is a good bit bigger than the ark. I'm meeting a guy this week about it (a great handyman/builder who built my dog run a few years ago) and I also want to run it by the neighbours, but I should hopefully be up and running in 2 or 3 weeks.

One thing I can't find and definitive information on is when and where to buy point of lay hens. Are they available in April/May? Will I have to go to a market or are there breeders I can go and visit?

I'm in Cork.

Ideally I'd like 3 hens of different breeds - I'm leaning towards a Black Rock, a Bluebelle and perhaps a Leghorn, but I'm open to any recommendations. I'd like ones with good personalities that aren't too nervous around excitable dogs.

Thanks so much for all the advice so far, it's really helped along the right track!

Naraka · 15-04-2013 01:53PM

If you're looking for chickens that aren't easily spooked, I'd avoid leghorns. Also, I see that you mentioned hybrids. Would you consider purebred chickens? Some purebred birds are also excellent layers, albeit not on par with hybrids.

bluecherry74 · 15-04-2013 01:58PM

Naraka wrote: »

If you're looking for chickens that aren't easily spooked, I'd avoid leghorns. Also, I see that you mentioned hybrids. Would you consider purebred chickens? Some purebred birds are also excellent layers, albeit not on par with hybrids.

Thanks for that, yes I'd certainly consider purebred chickens. Any recommendations? I only need 8 to 10 eggs a week and will share the extras with my friends/neighbours.

Naraka · 15-04-2013 02:12PM

How many hens do you plan on keeping altogether? For egg laying abilities, some of the better purebreds would be wyandottes, australorps, naked necks, welsummers, legbars. I'd rcommend that you look around online and pick the breed that best appeals to you. If you have any questions drop me a pm.

aonb · 15-04-2013 02:15PM

Bluecherry, if you are thinking about hybrids, the advantage is that you will get more eggs. The advantage of the pure breeds is that you wont get as many eggs, but you will have far prettier hens! Another advantage of hybrids is that they are tougher than the pure breeds. If you PM me I can give you the name of a chap in Cork that sells excellent Rhode Island/Hyline hybrid POLs at various markets - Ive used him for years, good quality. The thing to be aware of if you are buying hens is that you must make sure that they are hens rather than cockerals!!!!! (Pre Point of Lay chickens can be hard to sex - Ive bought youngish chickens that turned out to be cockerals - and I thought I knew what I was doing!!)

Naraka · 15-04-2013 02:30PM

A concern that people have been debating about as regards hybrids is the dangers of vaccinating hens. When hens are vaccinated, over time they shed the vaccine. When the vaccine is shed, it can infect non-vaccinated birds in the flock. Also, in relation to hardiness, many purebred varieties are just as hardy if not more hardy than hybrids.

bluecherry74 · 15-04-2013 02:30PM

Naraka wrote: »

How many hens do you plan on keeping altogether? For egg laying abilities, some of the better purebreds would be wyandottes, australorps, naked necks, welsummers, legbars. I'd rcommend that you look around online and pick the breed that best appeals to you. If you have any questions drop me a pm.

Thanks for the info. I don't have much space so I'll only be keeping 3. If they could provide me with 10 eggs a week I'd be delighted. I'll look into those breeds.

aonb wrote: »

Bluecherry, if you are thinking about hybrids, the advantage is that you will get more eggs. The advantage of the pure breeds is that you wont get as many eggs, but you will have far prettier hens! Another advantage of hybrids is that they are tougher than the pure breeds. If you PM me I can give you the name of a chap in Cork that sells excellent Rhode Island/Hyline hybrid POLs at various markets - Ive used him for years, good quality. The thing to be aware of if you are buying hens is that you must make sure that they are hens rather than cockerals!!!!! (Pre Point of Lay chickens can be hard to sex - Ive bought youngish chickens that turned out to be cockerals - and I thought I knew what I was doing!!)

I'm terrified that I'll end up with a cockerel! If you could PM me that guy's name I'd appercaite it. I will admit that pretty pure breeds appeal to me but buying from someone reputable appeals to me as well.

Naraka · 15-04-2013 02:34PM

I'm a member of the Irish Society of Poultry Fanciers, I can put you in touch with keepers of many purebred chickens if you like.

bluecherry74 · 15-04-2013 03:25PM

I would love that, thanks Naraka. I'll send you a PM.

SligoEdo · 15-04-2013 10:04PM

If you get 3 point of lay hens, I'd be surprised if you got less than 18 eggs a week. Bluebells and Blackrocks are egg-cellent layers

) We had 2 of each, and after having them for a few weeks we were getting 4 eggs a day.

Qualitymark · 25-04-2013 09:12AM

Silkie-araucana cross bantams are charming, and make lovely mothers; they also (most of them) lay gorgeous blue eggs. Lovely furry little hens with a sweet nature and an adorable cockade on top of the head.

sancerredave · 25-04-2013 09:36AM

Hi Bluecherry
It looks a bit like we are at the same stage in the chicken keeping game. A friend of mine who has kept chickens for years, has recommended I visit Larchill in Kildare on May 18th. Its an old estate garden, that is open to visitors, and it has a poultry fair on that date. See details on www.larchill.ie Its on from 11 to 6pm, and costs €6 to enter.
My friend tells me, she has gone there for many years, and its a good place to get good quality stock, and plenty of helpful advise. I hope to have my run built in time to get my first chickens there on the day.

Naraka · 25-04-2013 12:57PM

Larchill is a great sale if the weather is good as it is an outdoor sale.

bluecherry74 · 29-04-2013 12:27PM

I'm down in Cork so Larchill is a bit far to travel. Pity, because it looks great.

I went to a poultry sale a week ago in Midleton to suss out what was available. Thanks to Naraka for telling me about it!

There was a fairly good selection of hens there - mostly just the common breeds/hybrids but they looked healthy. I'll (hopefully) be going back this Sunday to buy 3 hens. I'm still not completely decided what kind to get but I've narrowed it down a Light Sussex and 2 of the following:

Barred Plymouth Rock
Black Rock
Bluebell
Brown Leghorn (I know they're flighty but I like the ideas of having white eggs)

I was in the UK for most of last week and I came home on Saturday night to discover this in my back garden:

I'm really happy with how it's turning out. The coop I ordered should arrive tomorrow and the guy who's building the run will come back then and finish it off.

sancerredave, let us know how you're getting on. Would love to see photos of your run and chickens when they arrive

Naraka · 29-04-2013 12:45PM

Looks really good. The best of luck with them. Another bonus of keeping Leghorns is that their eggs are very big! They also come in a wide variety of colours. I have some black leghorn and silver duckwing leghorn eggs in the incubator at the moment.

Keeping chickens in the suburbs

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