Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Of whom there are less of, leading to less money in the public purse from which to pay teachers, etc. Not only that, but public sector workers have been unfairly (as far as any other industries are concerned) protected throughout this crisis in comparison to their private sector counter-parts. This is a broad comparison, I know, but is generally true.

As I have said, there is very little public sympathy from where I am standing. So, if we imagine a scenario where CP2 doesn't pass, what do you imagine happening as a public sector employee? Money to appear out of nowhere?

How do you consider 3 pay cuts, increased and increasing work loads being protected?

Please let us know what the weather is like up there in cloud cookoo land

Boulevardier wrote: »

I have just learned that Impact members in my workplace have narrowly voted in favour of accepting CP2.

I am actually surprised. My feeling was that it was going to be rejected by about 60/40.

If this result is repeated in Impact nationally then it might just save CP2 from what I thought was certain defeat.

Pete M. wrote: »

Are you for real or trolling?

subset? Do you get the whole 'Union' thing at all?

Anyway, got a provisional count done for my end and it was a dead heat.

It is going to be very close.
But I do think that my Branch will vote No....

Pete, Boulevardier taught the same.

As I said earlier in the thread it may be better if it is as then the government may realize that finally they have to govern the country not be puppets on a string

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Social welfare put a floor under wages. However if we reduce Social Welfare we will not see wages reduced as workers on low wages would be better of on welfare than working at present. It would take a massive cut in welfare to make a low paid unsecure job in the private sector a viable alternative. I cannot see a 10-15% cut in welfare causing a drop in wages.









Farming is part of a 5 billion food industry. It provides cheap raw material to Irish processors. Irish farmers receive the among lowest price's for product in Europe. Would Kerry Group exist except for them. Would it if it were not an Irish company be building a plant that will provide 2000 well paid jobs. As well Glanbia is another big employer. We have a massive agri-engineering sector which provides a large number of jobs.

Vissy O do not think that there any 200K tractors in Ireland maybe a combine or two. However even in farming there are idiots.

Tayto how do farmers rely on PAYE workers, I am a PAYE worker as well as a farmer. And yes there are better paying jobs than farming. I have one as well as a farm which I am paying back for. We all have equal opportunity to a certain extent it is just case of being willing to make sacrifices to better your situation not just to sit back and expect to be handed everything on you lap. It is easy to sit back and be an angry man.

How do farmers not rely on PAYE workers? Please give an example of one single farm that could survive without various payments from Europe. And who provides thes payments?

PAYE workres and their EU wide counterparts.

And lets not forget who makes sure you get your cheque in the post...... those very PS workers you villify at every opertunity

Tea drinker wrote: »

No one I know has had this sort of pay rise. You seem to be trying to link PS pay to your own rise in pay? How have you become the benchmark now? Loads of businesses have closed because rents rose too much too fast. Look in sandyford industrial estate tech and engineering gone, in dundrum centre retail gone, all over town restaurants are closing due to cash problems.

Continuing austerity in the domestic economy will only add to those cash problems.
Public/civil servants have little to fear from a No vote in my opinion, the cuts will be imposed one way or another. Leaving the vote on legislation to make those cuts to a divided and shaken Labour Party is the best that can be hoped for.
Either the government or the public sector are going to be split down the middle as a result of CP2!

Tea drinker wrote: »

No one I know has had this sort of pay rise. You seem to be trying to link PS pay to your own rise in pay? How have you become the benchmark now? Loads of businesses have closed because rents rose too much too fast. Look in sandyford industrial estate tech and engineering gone, in dundrum centre retail gone, all over town restaurants are closing due to cash problems.

Im linking the public sectors across the board cuts to widespread pay rises in the private sector. Just using myself and people I know as examples of how some people complain about what the public sector get while they get it and more at the same time.

You are talking about people who have lost jobs.
People who have lost jobs and cant get new ones is another story. It has nothing to do with with pay cuts. Most people I know who lost jobs got new jobs very quickly because they are employable. Its only a couple of people I know who are still unemployed and tbh I wouldnt employ them either if i was looking to hire people. It takes a lot to be at the bottom of the pile for jobs when there are so many working compared to unemployed.
Everyone goes on about the huge unemployment when really to be in that pool you have to be pretty much unemployable. But thats for a different thread.

MMAGirl wrote: »

Im linking the public sectors across the board cuts to widespread pay rises in the private sector. Just using myself and people I know as examples of how some people complain about what the public sector get while they get it and more at the same time.

You are talking about people who have lost jobs.
People who have lost jobs and cant get new ones is another story. It has nothing to do with with pay cuts. Most people I know who lost jobs got new jobs very quickly because they are employable. Its only a couple of people I know who are still unemployed and tbh I wouldnt employ them either if i was looking to hire people. It takes a lot to be at the bottom of the pile for jobs when there are so many working compared to unemployed.
Everyone goes on about the huge unemployment when really to be in that pool you have to be pretty much unemployable. But thats for a different thread.

Well aren't we just perpetuatiing the cycle of begrudgery and me feinism that partly defines Irish people if we don't try to change mindset? Yeah of course you need to stay on the ball and that's why I keep studying and getting IT certs all while I have a stable job. But the state should be there to help people, as we should help the state, but it seems that both sides are trying to screw one another over, while the Nation was treasonously sabotaged by a banking and political caste into a World War style epic loss, the war reparations which will have to be paid for generations. The other strong defining factor of Irish is the sense of victimhood, and "who has been hurt the most here" . Again this is rife on welfare, but it's also present in a lot of society outside, both PS and Private. I probably do it myself unknowingly.

Re the unemployed:
Some people have chosen to be unemployed as they can't afford to take a lower paid "job" than the dole. Some are just unfortunate. And some are unemployable through poorly educated anti-social and anti emmployment attitudes. But for sure I don't agree the current live register is unemployable, and TBH I don't think you believe that either.
We need reform of the entitlements to stop the PAYE workers being taken for a ride, the true most vulnerable in society.

There's little use you or I taking our salaries, raises etc and comparing them to PS, there are well researched mechanisms to do that far more accurately than anecdotally. Sure didn't we have de benchmarking ;-)

MMAGirl wrote: »

Everyone goes on about the huge unemployment when really to be in that pool you have to be pretty much unemployable.

In a thread about PS pay, you come to expect the most ludicrous and nonsensical unsubstantiated generalisations but with that comment you have managed to bring it to a new low. I didnt think that was possible. It is kind of impressive, in a way.

Tea drinker wrote: »

There needs to be more cuts to PS and welfare as there is only a little more $$$ to be extracted from Joe Public. Gov footprint needs to get smaller and leaner so Joe can pay his debts. If some stimulus can come from capital projects - great, but don't forget PS were in favour of austerity when it meant capital projects got cut rather than their wages.
yeah yeah sure yeah on the capital projects.

They are Joe public too.
Take 5% from everyone. or take 10% from the PS and 0% from everyone else.
Extreme example, but thats what attacking one sector boils down to.

MMAGirl wrote: »

They are Joe public too.
Take 5% from everyone. or take 10% from the PS and 0% from everyone else.
Extreme example, but thats what attacking one sector boils down to.

Not exactly, if they were then we could give 90% of our wage to PS and the economy could still be likely to recover.
It's a blend, and we have it wrong right now. Yes, PS are indispensable, but we will just have to live with lower services, while PS reform to higher efficiency. The money is no longer there, it's gone, totally gone, I mean gone-gone, and it isn't coming back soon.

Tea drinker wrote: »

Again we are back to discussing your specific pocket..... weren't you just telling us all about your 100% raise? You are deluding the more easily deluded sector of the PS with your talk of the "undisclosed huge raises" that everyone has been hush hush about. Anecdotally on boards it seems There's another 10 guys for every one guy who says he can pay more. And that's just on people who are earning 100K plus, I guess it's higher for lower paid.
Let me put it another way, we just had the largest drop in PC sales in history, hows about the odds of Intel and HP pulling out of Leixlip?

well to be fair im talking about everybodys pockets. It doesnt matter about mine specifically. As I keep saying to you, I just mentioned mine and my friends raises to show that private sector salaries are increasing a lot more than PS salaries. Not hard to figure out to be fair, as PS salaries went down and its clear that private sector salaries are increasing.
Even Ryanair have had to give in and give their staff a 10% raise.

You seem to want the PS to pay more so you dont have to tbh.
You are not alone though. I would guess that 99% of people who are not PS want the same. Why stop there though. Perhaps they should pay more for the TV license too.

woodoo wrote: »

What a surprise... take the money of somebody else and leave me alone

Shouldnt be a surprise. Turkeys dont vote for christmas. Irish turkeys vote for the other turkeys to go on the dinner plate though :eek:

Probably not unique to irish turkeys though to be fair.

Dreamertime wrote: »

Amazing how blind people are

So people who don't agree with your view are blind..? Even when they're half of people (give or take 10%).