Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

In college in project my team refused to do anything, my counter measures too harsh?

  • 12-04-2013 07:13PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    Hey, so I am in college 4 year course, I am finishing 2nd year now, in 2 years I am getting Bachelors in Computer Science.
    We have module called "Project" we were given task basically to develop mobile application over 4 months. So I gathered people who I thought are competent enough, and we started project. At first other person was chosen to be project manager but then I suggested myself as he was not updating and encouraging anyone to work and wasn't writing enough reports and documentation.

    So I came up with application idea, studied Android platform and it's development (I did java before, but not android platform), while doing this I encouraged them and gave them resources to learn from at the mean time. When I learned I coded a base app/mainframe/backbone of our application which included: main menu, database, registration system with login system fully integrated with online databases, I wrote classes to help them out and make it easier for them.

    When I finished everything I divided everything into parts and gave each person 3 parts, myself I took up 6 parts + mainframe. I started coding and fixing things, adding new features, writing reports and so.

    Its' been 3 months and we have less than 3 weeks left and I find out that my team still haven't done anything, out of 3 parts they did 1 each and yet still not the way it was supposed to be, so I fixed things myself and edited.
    Then my team keeps coming up with excuses like I didn't know how to do it, I am reading about it, I am trying... yet when I encourage them to stay back after college and ask me questions they don't even come in for project module class.

    So I consulted my friend who is lecturer in different college and he suggested me to take counter measures as our mark is group mark and anyone not doing their part will let us down.

    It's 80% group mark and 20% individual.

    So I came home and wrote to them:
    That from now on, I've set specific deadlines for their parts to be finished, it's 1 week for 1 part, I don't care how they do it, if they want they can ask me questions, no copy/paste from internet as that's plagiarism, I told them that I will be monitoring their attendance to Project classes from now on, and I listed things I expect from their bits to come and work. I wrote about 6 pages of documentation and new rules/counter measures.
    Now they have literally 2 weeks to finish all their parts and I specified non-working/broken bit will not count as done, and will be invalid and I will write it down for examiners and lecturers to question them individually as I wont put up with their crap anymore.
    Basically I told them, showed them, explained them, helped them, pointed them in right direction yet even then they don't pick it up and don't do things so I took these counter measures.

    I plan and dream to be a programmer for start of my career after college then become Project Manager and manage projects as my lecturer told me I am very good with managing tasks and splitting project into parts and assigning bits and difficulty to them.

    So would you say my decision was too harsh? or too soft? What I should've done?


    P.S - one of the group members is my close friend, shes a girl, I liked her before but now I don't at all, I've got my own relationship and I am not after her anymore, yet she keeps saying: "Stop controlling my life" as an excuse for not doing anything and for forcing team to work. Though there is nothing different said to her than to others.
    To be honest, I rather become enemies with friends than fail 2nd year in college, I see them for 2 more years only while my degree is seen for the rest of the life.


«13

Comments

  • Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So you're a 2nd year undergrad?
    You haven't mentioned your age, but even if you're 19 it still sounds like you have a serious case of mature student syndrome.
    I plan and dream to be a programmer for start of my career after college then become Project Manager and manage projects as my lecturer told me I am very good with managing tasks and splitting project into parts and assigning bits and difficulty to them.
    Well to be honest it sounds like you've handled this project terribly. Managing people isn't about hitting deadlines and pushing people around, it's about forming a well-working team and squeezing all their potential out in a constructive manner under a pleasant working environment. Your title may be project manager, but these people are your peers, and you're treating them like crap. Even if you were their superior it still wouldn't be acceptable.

    I can't believe someone said to you "Stop controlling my life", and it didn't shock you into rethinking what you've done.

    The appropriate way to deal with this would have been to speak to your team about it, and then when you weren't happy, you should have spoken to your lecturer about it.

    If I was one of your team, I'd feel like it was such an unnecessary chore at this stage it'd be my last priority.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Bobo78


    In all fairness I can see where They are coming from and I feel sorry for them.
    I would hate to be forced to work with person like you.
    P.S. you are not their boss.


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Amira Important Tequila


    OP, I can understand frustration at being stuck with other people in a group project in college where they refuse to pull their weight, I really can. I've had it myself.
    However.
    You chose this group yourself.
    You let them alone without following up at all for 3 months, and now that you realise it's a short time to deadline, you panic and write 6 pages of new rules?

    Since you ask what you should have done:
    Followed up regularly and seen how they were getting on, and doing so in a far more amicable manner. If you were still frustrated at their lack of motivation and polite/amicable conversations about motivation and grading weren't helping, you should have gone then to your lecturer/someone and asked for advice, to tackle it early on.
    I don't work in IT, but if you ever want to do any kind of project work as part of it, you need to learn people skills and people management. It's not all about "picking out parts of the work", the interpersonal skills are just as important. You will get nothing done by bossing people around at the last minute because you didn't follow up and now you're panicking.

    In any case, this is 2nd year, and unlikely to count for any final grades, so take it as a learning experience and don't make the same mistakes next time


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    PRINCE2 principles here! Break the project up into stages. Within each stage, you have several smaller stages. Build time limits into your plan, but allow for slippage.

    Did you get everyone together at any point to discuss progress, anticipate, solve and follow up any issues? And yes - you've handled this badly. If I were on your team and got the e-mail you wrote, you and I would've been having a discussion. And it would not be good for you, believe me.

    Treat people as adults and you'll get much better results.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Op, it looks like you are too controlling and your team resents you for it. If you ale to be a project manager then you are going to have to learn that the idea is not to be the boss and overly delegate.

    The first question you should be concerned with is asking them why they want to fail? Have you picked the wrong team which wild mean that your project has been doomed from the start...?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Possible they might collude against you and complain about you to the lecturer since there is more of them and their combined word might have more effect. Also to be a good project manager you need to be able to manage people as well as tasks, you sound terrible at the people management part and unless you seriously improve you won't last long as a project manager in the real world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    It seems like you completely took control, made all the decisions and gave them their orders. Did they have any say into this project at all? Were they happy with the idea and what they had to do? Because it doesn't sound like they did.
    You are a self appointed manager of a college group project, not their boss. A big part of group projects is learning work with people, and you've dealt with that part horribly. I don't know why you thought it was a good idea to write a six page document of orders and rules for your classmates. I suspect you're going to have serious trouble finding anyone to work with you again. The fact you don't mind people hating you over your behavior is a bit worrying. A big thing employers look for is the ability to work well in a team, someone who doesn't mind making enemies so they can get ahead isn't someone you want on your team.

    To be honest if I was in your class mates positions I'd be digging my heels in and considering complaining about you to the lecturer. I think you need to swallow your pride and apologize. Explain that you acted like that because you're stressed and really worried about the project, then ask them nicely to get their parts done to the best of their ability in the timeline you suggested. Be nice, be reasonable, and hopefully they'll work with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    See the thing is, I lied a bit about the part where i said I asked my friend who works as lectuer, in reality I asked a lecturer what to do, we have like 1 main lecturer and 2 sublecturers because it's big class, and one of sub lecturers said to set deadlines and pin point people.

    And yes I was following their progress over these 4 months, apparently it always ended up with: "I didn't know how to do it, I am doing it, I am reading it, it's gone, it didn't work or I don't know...", it got to the point where I wrote to someone on facebook and the guy read message but ignored me, I told one other team member that other team member ignored me and he was surprised because he knows we have to do project. That sub-lecturer told me to treat this project as real thing, that's why this module is called "project", we weren't thaught any kind of programming for it or anything, it was literally given task and thrown into a pit to sort out stuff ourselves. We've been set deadlines for things and that's it. Lecturer said we will write reflection (about other team members) how they worked or how they didn't work, and lecturer said that if project does not complete on time team leader is to take blame and will lose marks while the rest of team will have a bit higher marks.

    So really? People are saying I should back off and just sit there and wait? Sounds like quite a crap plan to be honest.

    And by the way, all team members have vote and right to change project however they want, if someone has idea - great, we use it always, if 3 out of 4 people don't like specific thing in project we remove it (for example, we removed our crappy logo that we had at start and we agreed we need new logo now and loading screen to be implemented), but the thing is that usually it's 1 person who does their own bit and starts to vote out parts of their bit just to avoid doing something.

    Here let me explain:

    We are making application where you can manage your own finances over current month, it has expenses and incomes section.

    Expenses section was made great, good and works (made by team member doing their bit),that part listed a value in money and we were sitting in class and discussing part and it came to point where I said: "Please add currency symbol, use a variable stored in sharedpreferences, otherwise it doesn't make sense if there is no currency symbol) that member said: "I don't care, looks good enough" then I asked: "What do you guys thing? [asking everyone in group] "and everyone agreed that it needs currency symbol.... What I ended up doing is adding that currency symbol myself in that other team members part because that "team member" decided that he has finished his part even though all team agreed it needs a small fix.

    Other part is incomes, basically same thing as expenses but it takes all incomes from database, the member that was working on it he made it crap way, nothing that looks decent, it's literally just 2 blank fields and a white button, it doesn't list incomes or gives any information whatsoever... That member came in and said: "I don't know how to do it..." I explained him, gave him reference links to learn and suggested to have a look at expenses code as it's nearly same.

    When I told person who made expenses part: "The person who is making incomes is gonna use your code bits" that person who was making expenses part said: "What an ass, I made so much effort on that and he just copies it" I said: "well you all are using my code, so it's fair to say we as a group can share each others codes".


    I was talking to lecturer about the project and I said:

    "The crap part about working in groups on this project is that people aren't doing things because they are not afraid of consequences which in this case are not strict, they just lose marks, while in real world they would be forced and motivated to work on project because they know consequences at work will be terrible" and lecturer said: "Ah well not much you can do in this case, just try and document everything that's going on in group, make people record and report on their bits, set up deadlines for them, it will give them feeling of restriction and they will know they HAVE to do it by then"

    So I did that way. I know lecturer will be on my side, even if they all complain lecturer will see.

    We had a small 40 minute class where people out of our class (just typical people from local offices) came in and viewer our prototypes, our was most finished and completed than the rest of the course (other 15 groups) and when we were talking about project, this guy said: "it really feels like only you {pointing at me} are doing all the work, can someone else tell me something about project? " yet no one replied.

    Only after that class I asked what's going on and why no one said anything, and the person who made expenses part said that they copied everything from internet. That day I ended up recoding whole thing as we are in danger of being expelled for thing called plagiarism.


    Also here is a bit of briefing about my group members:

    Group Member 1: 19 years old, comes in and keeps looking at cars, he is really into cars and stuff, watches videos etc.. always in class, doesn't do anything really, when I just made a hint saying: "Soo... any progress lately?" he always replies: "ehh yeah I am working on it..."
    That's it, end of story. When I told him I am ready to stay back and help him if he needs any help he said alright thanks. Ye the never seeked for help.

    Group Member 2: 19 years old, comes in and keeps looking at games and reading about games, nintendo news and other stuff like mario etc. (the guy who is making incomes part) when I make same hint: "Soo... any progress lately? " he always says: "Yeah I am learning it and reading about it..." only then he stops browsing crap and does work , otherwise he won't do it if not asked about it.

    Group Member 3: 19 years old girl, comes in and plays tetris on facebook and texts on phone every minute, she keeps saying: "I don't like these computers so I will work on it at home", when I text her in evening asking: "So any news?" she aggressively replies: "Don't hurry me! / Don't bother me! / Stop controlling me!, when I do it, I do it so stop asking. " No other approach there, those two simple answers. She did first part (expenses) then stopped doing anything.

    Group Member 4 (me): 19 years old, I love programming and I love getting as high scores in tests and projects as possible especially when project is really simple one.

    Guess it's all my fault for choosing them all without knowing them well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    What people are saying is you're basically being too bossy. You decided the project, you decided you were the project manager, you decided what each person had to do- you're making every decision and telling people what to study etc. People wont respond well to that.
    I have been in groups where the others weren't too bothered, but I talked them around, got them to get together and have a chat about it and decided together what to do, and got together to do the work. If you talk to people and are nice to them and allow everyone have an input and listen to the ideas of others you will get much farther.
    It sounds as though you have been too demanding and annoyed the rest of your group and now they can't be bothered. You need to work on your people skills if you want to go into project management.

    If you want to get this project done on time and want people to actually say nice things about you in their reflections - maybe you should think about apologising and asking them nicely about getting it finished, and actually listen to their ideas etc.


  • Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    arleitiss wrote: »
    So really? People are saying I should back off and just sit there and wait? Sounds like quite a crap plan to be honest.

    So on top of the way you've been treating your team-mates, you've known the whole time that they'll be submitting a reflection on your work?

    As for waiting, this is second year in college, people aren't going to be finishing assignments 3 weeks in advance. Give them time and give them encouragement (bullying them about deadlines is not encouragement). If necessary, shave bits off the project where possible, it sounds a bit over-ambitious.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    So on top of the way you've been treating your team-mates, you've known the whole time that they'll be submitting a reflection on your work?

    As for waiting, this is second year in college, people aren't going to be finishing assignments 3 weeks in advance. Give them time and give them encouragement (bullying them about deadlines is not encouragement). If necessary, shave bits off the project where possible, it sounds a bit over-ambitious.

    Yes they will be giving reflections, when I posted all deadlines etc.. I encouraged them to go onto college network and where in forum I posted all deadlines (seen by my group and lecturers) I encouraged them to write do they think it's fair or not, and why.
    Some said it's fair measures and one girl said it's unfair and complete crap.

    The real problem I think is that: two guys agree we need to hurry up and finish project, it's doable and it's about 80% finished, there is just last push, but when they see that girl not doing anything I think they decide to ease off too.

    Also I don't mind for reflection, examiners will give individual marks based on:

    Documentation of group work (I have lots documented and written on forums in college)
    Reflection,
    Ability to explain code bits that examiners randomly point out.

    I told lecturer: "I hope this presentation will be as hard as possible, so it really points out and shows weaknesses and strengths".

    I can post screenshots of application if anyone is interested.

    People in my group like this idea, and they are happy with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Aside from the project you should really take time to work on your personal skills, and not dismiss people's advice as a crap plan....especially when you come looling for the advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Aside from the project you should really take time to work on your personal skills, and not dismiss people's advice as a crap plan....especially when you come looling for the advice.

    I didn't mean it as crap advice, I meant meant that doing nothing and ease off this project is like a crap idea considering its' 3 weeks left, sorry if it sounded like anything else.


  • Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    arleitiss wrote: »
    I didn't mean it as crap advice, I meant meant that doing nothing and ease off this project is like a crap idea considering its' 3 weeks left, sorry if it sounded like anything else.

    But do you not see how much more damage you do by pushing them?

    I also meant to say, if there is a college forum available for contacting each other and posting progress, you really, really shouldn't be texting them and bothering them on facebook. It's extremely unprofessional and you have said that this is meant to be treated as a real work experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    When the previous guy was as leader of team, here is what lecturer wrote on our forum in college, this was back in January just start of our semester.

    "The only person posting on this forum seems to be Group Member 1 This is not the way its meant to be All students are meant to respond to the task list with a brief outline of what they have done

    [Name of lecturer]"

    then lecturer posted:

    "Guys there is still not enough work being done on this forum.Dont forget this is graded.

    [Name of lecturer]"

    Then the group member 1 said he doesn't want to be leader anymore because he has no clue what to write and post as he hasn't done anything much so he has nothing to write about, so we decided that I have lots of words to say as mainframe of our application was nearly done.

    Lecturers actually want to see what we post and they want some kind of reports to be written too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    At the end of the day if it's nearly done why not just finish it off yourself? Instead of spending time doing plans, schedules, texting them, etc just do the work yourself and then take them to the cleaner is the reflections.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    arleitiss wrote: »
    I didn't mean it as crap advice, I meant meant that doing nothing and ease off this project is like a crap idea considering its' 3 weeks left, sorry if it sounded like anything else.

    TBH it's second year, most of the other students probably just want to pass and will put in the effort next year and 4th year. I am sure if you find some middle ground between your authoritarian approach and their too relaxed approach you will get the project done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    But do you not see how much more damage you do by pushing them?

    I also meant to say, if there is a college forum available for contacting each other and posting progress, you really, really shouldn't be texting them and bothering them on facebook. It's extremely unprofessional and you have said that this is meant to be treated as a real work experience.

    No one treats that college forum seriously, unless asked to write something on it or check something none of team members will check and read it unfortunetely. when I post something on forum I have to write on facebook group too saying there has been update on forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    At the end of the day if it's nearly done why not just finish it off yourself? Instead of spending time doing plans, schedules, texting them, etc just do the work yourself and then take them to the cleaner is the reflections.

    I had that idea before, but when I offered them that I make their bits they strongly defend their bits and keep saying that they will do it themselves. Most likely because they think they will fail project then if I do it for them. In this case I can't really tell them "I don't care, I will do your part, just back off" if they want to do it they are free to do it as long as it's done on time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    arleitiss wrote: »
    I had that idea before, but when I offered them that I make their bits they strongly defend their bits and keep saying that they will do it themselves. Most likely because they think they will fail project then if I do it for them. In this case I can't really tell them "I don't care, I will do your part, just back off" if they want to do it they are free to do it as long as it's done on time.



    Just gonna have to sit and wait then. Maybe do their parts as back-up just in case. At the end of the day you can force them to work quicker. If they get the work in an hour before the deadline it's the same as two weeks before the deadline. It's second year in college, this will be a last minute job.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    Just gonna have to sit and wait then. Maybe do their parts as back-up just in case. At the end of the day you can force them to work quicker. If they get the work in an hour before the deadline it's the same as two weeks before the deadline. It's second year in college, this will be a last minute job.

    I have already started a seperate branch on git (like backup plan) which no one has access to. I am doing their bits, when people say it's only second year: I forgot to mention 1 important part: "This module has no exam, all mark is based on project, if you fail it you have to pay like 170 euro and stay in college for summer working on another project and doing presentation again"


  • Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    arleitiss wrote: »
    when people say it's only second year: I forgot to mention 1 important part: "This module has no exam, all mark is based on project, if you fail it you have to pay like 170 euro and stay in college for summer working on another project and doing presentation again"

    You're not going to fail. You'd have to hand up an absolute piece of crap to fail; if you've put in the effort and each member has something functional to hand up you'll at least scrape a pass. It sounds like you've already got more than enough for a pass and people are going to be much more productive in the last week, bumping the mark up even more. Then there's also your personal 20% mark, bringing your score up to a higher overall mark.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    You're not going to fail. You'd have to hand up an absolute piece of crap to fail; if you've put in the effort and each member has something functional to hand up you'll at least scrape a pass. It sounds like you've already got more than enough for a pass and people are going to be much more productive in the last week, bumping the mark up even more. Then there's also your personal 20% mark, bringing your score up to a higher overall mark.

    It's a simple project so why not try and max out the mark?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Pinewoo


    Hi OP,

    I've worked in the "industry" a few years now and as you know these days in software being able to work in a team is just as important as the languages, technologies, etc used. It seems to me right now you don't even have the skills necessary to work in a team, let alone manage a project.

    Sorry for being blunt but use it as a learning experience. I work in one of the largest software companies in the world and there's a huge amount of people (like those in your team) who don't pull their weight in projects, let others do all the work and even people who couldn't give a flying f**k about the project or team yet are on the same salary as me.

    They exist everywhere, and would drive you mental (frank grimes comes to mind) UNLESS you learn now to tolerate them, without letting them make you angry, or stressed out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    Pinewoo wrote: »
    Hi OP,

    I've worked in the "industry" a few years now and as you know these days in software being able to work in a team is just as important as the languages, technologies, etc used. It seems to me right now you don't even have the skills necessary to work in a team, let alone manage a project.

    Sorry for being blunt but use it as a learning experience. I work in one of the largest software companies in the world and there's a huge amount of people (like those in your team) who don't pull their weight in projects, let others do all the work and even people who couldn't give a flying f**k about the project or team yet are on the same salary as me.

    They exist everywhere, and would drive you mental (frank grimes comes to mind) UNLESS you learn now to tolerate them, without letting them make you angry, or stressed out.


    But how are those people still in work then? I mean do they not do the thing at all or do they finish it overdue?
    I mean we were taught in project it's: Price/Quality/Time.
    So which one suffers because of them? I mean if you are project for example to do, and those people who can't get it on time, wouldn't the project either require more expenses, be worse quality than expected or be overdue?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    arleitiss wrote: »
    It's a simple project so why not try and max out the mark?

    It's second year most don't care. A pass will do


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭arleitiss


    It's second year most don't care. A pass will do


    But that's pretty much as saying: "Don't talk in class, others are trying to learn, they pay for education and they want to actually get good marks"

    So if most don't care = automatically everyone in group should suffer and lose marks?

    I am sure it's worth for those who want marks to try and change something?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Pinewoo


    arleitiss wrote: »
    , wouldn't the project either require more expenses, be worse quality than expected or be overdue?

    All 3 of those scenarios are very, very common in the software industry.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭desaparecidos


    You've a branch where you're doing their parts. Good plan. Time will roll on and your useless teammates will still have **** all done with half a day left and will be no doubt all end up in a lab thinking they can get a 4 month project done in a couple of hours. They'll be glad to take your code then. They'll pass handsomely solely due to your hard work.

    This is a great life/workplace lesson.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭desaparecidos


    If anyone missed it, the lesson is that your colleagues are invariably useless idiots.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement