In college in project my team refused to do anything, my counter measures too harsh?

arleitiss

Hey, so I am in college 4 year course, I am finishing 2nd year now, in 2 years I am getting Bachelors in Computer Science.
We have module called "Project" we were given task basically to develop mobile application over 4 months. So I gathered people who I thought are competent enough, and we started project. At first other person was chosen to be project manager but then I suggested myself as he was not updating and encouraging anyone to work and wasn't writing enough reports and documentation.

So I came up with application idea, studied Android platform and it's development (I did java before, but not android platform), while doing this I encouraged them and gave them resources to learn from at the mean time. When I learned I coded a base app/mainframe/backbone of our application which included: main menu, database, registration system with login system fully integrated with online databases, I wrote classes to help them out and make it easier for them.

When I finished everything I divided everything into parts and gave each person 3 parts, myself I took up 6 parts + mainframe. I started coding and fixing things, adding new features, writing reports and so.

Its' been 3 months and we have less than 3 weeks left and I find out that my team still haven't done anything, out of 3 parts they did 1 each and yet still not the way it was supposed to be, so I fixed things myself and edited.
Then my team keeps coming up with excuses like I didn't know how to do it, I am reading about it, I am trying... yet when I encourage them to stay back after college and ask me questions they don't even come in for project module class.

So I consulted my friend who is lecturer in different college and he suggested me to take counter measures as our mark is group mark and anyone not doing their part will let us down.

It's 80% group mark and 20% individual.

So I came home and wrote to them:
That from now on, I've set specific deadlines for their parts to be finished, it's 1 week for 1 part, I don't care how they do it, if they want they can ask me questions, no copy/paste from internet as that's plagiarism, I told them that I will be monitoring their attendance to Project classes from now on, and I listed things I expect from their bits to come and work. I wrote about 6 pages of documentation and new rules/counter measures.
Now they have literally 2 weeks to finish all their parts and I specified non-working/broken bit will not count as done, and will be invalid and I will write it down for examiners and lecturers to question them individually as I wont put up with their crap anymore.
Basically I told them, showed them, explained them, helped them, pointed them in right direction yet even then they don't pick it up and don't do things so I took these counter measures.

I plan and dream to be a programmer for start of my career after college then become Project Manager and manage projects as my lecturer told me I am very good with managing tasks and splitting project into parts and assigning bits and difficulty to them.

So would you say my decision was too harsh? or too soft? What I should've done?


P.S - one of the group members is my close friend, shes a girl, I liked her before but now I don't at all, I've got my own relationship and I am not after her anymore, yet she keeps saying: "Stop controlling my life" as an excuse for not doing anything and for forcing team to work. Though there is nothing different said to her than to others.
To be honest, I rather become enemies with friends than fail 2nd year in college, I see them for 2 more years only while my degree is seen for the rest of the life.

So you're a 2nd year undergrad?
You haven't mentioned your age, but even if you're 19 it still sounds like you have a serious case of mature student syndrome.

I plan and dream to be a programmer for start of my career after college then become Project Manager and manage projects as my lecturer told me I am very good with managing tasks and splitting project into parts and assigning bits and difficulty to them.

Well to be honest it sounds like you've handled this project terribly. Managing people isn't about hitting deadlines and pushing people around, it's about forming a well-working team and squeezing all their potential out in a constructive manner under a pleasant working environment. Your title may be project manager, but these people are your peers, and you're treating them like crap. Even if you were their superior it still wouldn't be acceptable.

I can't believe someone said to you "Stop controlling my life", and it didn't shock you into rethinking what you've done.

The appropriate way to deal with this would have been to speak to your team about it, and then when you weren't happy, you should have spoken to your lecturer about it.

If I was one of your team, I'd feel like it was such an unnecessary chore at this stage it'd be my last priority.

Bobo78

In all fairness I can see where They are coming from and I feel sorry for them.
I would hate to be forced to work with person like you.
P.S. you are not their boss.

OP, I can understand frustration at being stuck with other people in a group project in college where they refuse to pull their weight, I really can. I've had it myself.
However.
You chose this group yourself.
You let them alone without following up at all for 3 months, and now that you realise it's a short time to deadline, you panic and write 6 pages of new rules?

Since you ask what you should have done:
Followed up regularly and seen how they were getting on, and doing so in a far more amicable manner. If you were still frustrated at their lack of motivation and polite/amicable conversations about motivation and grading weren't helping, you should have gone then to your lecturer/someone and asked for advice, to tackle it early on.
I don't work in IT, but if you ever want to do any kind of project work as part of it, you need to learn people skills and people management. It's not all about "picking out parts of the work", the interpersonal skills are just as important. You will get nothing done by bossing people around at the last minute because you didn't follow up and now you're panicking.

In any case, this is 2nd year, and unlikely to count for any final grades, so take it as a learning experience and don't make the same mistakes next time

ABajaninCork

PRINCE2 principles here! Break the project up into stages. Within each stage, you have several smaller stages. Build time limits into your plan, but allow for slippage.

Did you get everyone together at any point to discuss progress, anticipate, solve and follow up any issues? And yes - you've handled this badly. If I were on your team and got the e-mail you wrote, you and I would've been having a discussion. And it would not be good for you, believe me.

Treat people as adults and you'll get much better results.

jimmycrackcorm

Op, it looks like you are too controlling and your team resents you for it. If you ale to be a project manager then you are going to have to learn that the idea is not to be the boss and overly delegate.

The first question you should be concerned with is asking them why they want to fail? Have you picked the wrong team which wild mean that your project has been doomed from the start...?

Chucky the tree

Possible they might collude against you and complain about you to the lecturer since there is more of them and their combined word might have more effect. Also to be a good project manager you need to be able to manage people as well as tasks, you sound terrible at the people management part and unless you seriously improve you won't last long as a project manager in the real world.

Lawliet

It seems like you completely took control, made all the decisions and gave them their orders. Did they have any say into this project at all? Were they happy with the idea and what they had to do? Because it doesn't sound like they did.
You are a self appointed manager of a college group project, not their boss. A big part of group projects is learning work with people, and you've dealt with that part horribly. I don't know why you thought it was a good idea to write a six page document of orders and rules for your classmates. I suspect you're going to have serious trouble finding anyone to work with you again. The fact you don't mind people hating you over your behavior is a bit worrying. A big thing employers look for is the ability to work well in a team, someone who doesn't mind making enemies so they can get ahead isn't someone you want on your team.

To be honest if I was in your class mates positions I'd be digging my heels in and considering complaining about you to the lecturer. I think you need to swallow your pride and apologize. Explain that you acted like that because you're stressed and really worried about the project, then ask them nicely to get their parts done to the best of their ability in the timeline you suggested. Be nice, be reasonable, and hopefully they'll work with you.

arleitiss

See the thing is, I lied a bit about the part where i said I asked my friend who works as lectuer, in reality I asked a lecturer what to do, we have like 1 main lecturer and 2 sublecturers because it's big class, and one of sub lecturers said to set deadlines and pin point people.

And yes I was following their progress over these 4 months, apparently it always ended up with: "I didn't know how to do it, I am doing it, I am reading it, it's gone, it didn't work or I don't know...", it got to the point where I wrote to someone on facebook and the guy read message but ignored me, I told one other team member that other team member ignored me and he was surprised because he knows we have to do project. That sub-lecturer told me to treat this project as real thing, that's why this module is called "project", we weren't thaught any kind of programming for it or anything, it was literally given task and thrown into a pit to sort out stuff ourselves. We've been set deadlines for things and that's it. Lecturer said we will write reflection (about other team members) how they worked or how they didn't work, and lecturer said that if project does not complete on time team leader is to take blame and will lose marks while the rest of team will have a bit higher marks.

So really? People are saying I should back off and just sit there and wait? Sounds like quite a crap plan to be honest.

And by the way, all team members have vote and right to change project however they want, if someone has idea - great, we use it always, if 3 out of 4 people don't like specific thing in project we remove it (for example, we removed our crappy logo that we had at start and we agreed we need new logo now and loading screen to be implemented), but the thing is that usually it's 1 person who does their own bit and starts to vote out parts of their bit just to avoid doing something.

Here let me explain:

We are making application where you can manage your own finances over current month, it has expenses and incomes section.

Expenses section was made great, good and works (made by team member doing their bit),that part listed a value in money and we were sitting in class and discussing part and it came to point where I said: "Please add currency symbol, use a variable stored in sharedpreferences, otherwise it doesn't make sense if there is no currency symbol) that member said: "I don't care, looks good enough" then I asked: "What do you guys thing? [asking everyone in group] "and everyone agreed that it needs currency symbol.... What I ended up doing is adding that currency symbol myself in that other team members part because that "team member" decided that he has finished his part even though all team agreed it needs a small fix.

Other part is incomes, basically same thing as expenses but it takes all incomes from database, the member that was working on it he made it crap way, nothing that looks decent, it's literally just 2 blank fields and a white button, it doesn't list incomes or gives any information whatsoever... That member came in and said: "I don't know how to do it..." I explained him, gave him reference links to learn and suggested to have a look at expenses code as it's nearly same.

When I told person who made expenses part: "The person who is making incomes is gonna use your code bits" that person who was making expenses part said: "What an ass, I made so much effort on that and he just copies it" I said: "well you all are using my code, so it's fair to say we as a group can share each others codes".


I was talking to lecturer about the project and I said:

"The crap part about working in groups on this project is that people aren't doing things because they are not afraid of consequences which in this case are not strict, they just lose marks, while in real world they would be forced and motivated to work on project because they know consequences at work will be terrible" and lecturer said: "Ah well not much you can do in this case, just try and document everything that's going on in group, make people record and report on their bits, set up deadlines for them, it will give them feeling of restriction and they will know they HAVE to do it by then"

So I did that way. I know lecturer will be on my side, even if they all complain lecturer will see.

We had a small 40 minute class where people out of our class (just typical people from local offices) came in and viewer our prototypes, our was most finished and completed than the rest of the course (other 15 groups) and when we were talking about project, this guy said: "it really feels like only you {pointing at me} are doing all the work, can someone else tell me something about project? " yet no one replied.

Only after that class I asked what's going on and why no one said anything, and the person who made expenses part said that they copied everything from internet. That day I ended up recoding whole thing as we are in danger of being expelled for thing called plagiarism.


Also here is a bit of briefing about my group members:

Group Member 1: 19 years old, comes in and keeps looking at cars, he is really into cars and stuff, watches videos etc.. always in class, doesn't do anything really, when I just made a hint saying: "Soo... any progress lately?" he always replies: "ehh yeah I am working on it..."
That's it, end of story. When I told him I am ready to stay back and help him if he needs any help he said alright thanks. Ye the never seeked for help.

Group Member 2: 19 years old, comes in and keeps looking at games and reading about games, nintendo news and other stuff like mario etc. (the guy who is making incomes part) when I make same hint: "Soo... any progress lately? " he always says: "Yeah I am learning it and reading about it..." only then he stops browsing crap and does work , otherwise he won't do it if not asked about it.

Group Member 3: 19 years old girl, comes in and plays tetris on facebook and texts on phone every minute, she keeps saying: "I don't like these computers so I will work on it at home", when I text her in evening asking: "So any news?" she aggressively replies: "Don't hurry me! / Don't bother me! / Stop controlling me!, when I do it, I do it so stop asking. " No other approach there, those two simple answers. She did first part (expenses) then stopped doing anything.

Group Member 4 (me): 19 years old, I love programming and I love getting as high scores in tests and projects as possible especially when project is really simple one.

Guess it's all my fault for choosing them all without knowing them well.

Muir

What people are saying is you're basically being too bossy. You decided the project, you decided you were the project manager, you decided what each person had to do- you're making every decision and telling people what to study etc. People wont respond well to that.
I have been in groups where the others weren't too bothered, but I talked them around, got them to get together and have a chat about it and decided together what to do, and got together to do the work. If you talk to people and are nice to them and allow everyone have an input and listen to the ideas of others you will get much farther.
It sounds as though you have been too demanding and annoyed the rest of your group and now they can't be bothered. You need to work on your people skills if you want to go into project management.

If you want to get this project done on time and want people to actually say nice things about you in their reflections - maybe you should think about apologising and asking them nicely about getting it finished, and actually listen to their ideas etc.

arleitiss

arleitiss wrote: »

So really? People are saying I should back off and just sit there and wait? Sounds like quite a crap plan to be honest.

So on top of the way you've been treating your team-mates, you've known the whole time that they'll be submitting a reflection on your work?

As for waiting, this is second year in college, people aren't going to be finishing assignments 3 weeks in advance. Give them time and give them encouragement (bullying them about deadlines is not encouragement). If necessary, shave bits off the project where possible, it sounds a bit over-ambitious.

arleitiss

true-or-false wrote: »

So on top of the way you've been treating your team-mates, you've known the whole time that they'll be submitting a reflection on your work?

As for waiting, this is second year in college, people aren't going to be finishing assignments 3 weeks in advance. Give them time and give them encouragement (bullying them about deadlines is not encouragement). If necessary, shave bits off the project where possible, it sounds a bit over-ambitious.

Yes they will be giving reflections, when I posted all deadlines etc.. I encouraged them to go onto college network and where in forum I posted all deadlines (seen by my group and lecturers) I encouraged them to write do they think it's fair or not, and why.
Some said it's fair measures and one girl said it's unfair and complete crap.

The real problem I think is that: two guys agree we need to hurry up and finish project, it's doable and it's about 80% finished, there is just last push, but when they see that girl not doing anything I think they decide to ease off too.

Also I don't mind for reflection, examiners will give individual marks based on:

Documentation of group work (I have lots documented and written on forums in college)
Reflection,
Ability to explain code bits that examiners randomly point out.

I told lecturer: "I hope this presentation will be as hard as possible, so it really points out and shows weaknesses and strengths".

I can post screenshots of application if anyone is interested.

People in my group like this idea, and they are happy with it.

Turtyturd

Aside from the project you should really take time to work on your personal skills, and not dismiss people's advice as a crap plan....especially when you come looling for the advice.

arleitiss

Turtyturd wrote: »

Aside from the project you should really take time to work on your personal skills, and not dismiss people's advice as a crap plan....especially when you come looling for the advice.

I didn't mean it as crap advice, I meant meant that doing nothing and ease off this project is like a crap idea considering its' 3 weeks left, sorry if it sounded like anything else.

arleitiss

arleitiss wrote: »

I didn't mean it as crap advice, I meant meant that doing nothing and ease off this project is like a crap idea considering its' 3 weeks left, sorry if it sounded like anything else.

But do you not see how much more damage you do by pushing them?

I also meant to say, if there is a college forum available for contacting each other and posting progress, you really, really shouldn't be texting them and bothering them on facebook. It's extremely unprofessional and you have said that this is meant to be treated as a real work experience.

arleitiss

When the previous guy was as leader of team, here is what lecturer wrote on our forum in college, this was back in January just start of our semester.

"The only person posting on this forum seems to be Group Member 1 This is not the way its meant to be All students are meant to respond to the task list with a brief outline of what they have done

[Name of lecturer]"

then lecturer posted:

"Guys there is still not enough work being done on this forum.Dont forget this is graded.

[Name of lecturer]"

Then the group member 1 said he doesn't want to be leader anymore because he has no clue what to write and post as he hasn't done anything much so he has nothing to write about, so we decided that I have lots of words to say as mainframe of our application was nearly done.

Lecturers actually want to see what we post and they want some kind of reports to be written too.

Chucky the tree

At the end of the day if it's nearly done why not just finish it off yourself? Instead of spending time doing plans, schedules, texting them, etc just do the work yourself and then take them to the cleaner is the reflections.

Turtyturd

arleitiss wrote: »

I didn't mean it as crap advice, I meant meant that doing nothing and ease off this project is like a crap idea considering its' 3 weeks left, sorry if it sounded like anything else.

TBH it's second year, most of the other students probably just want to pass and will put in the effort next year and 4th year. I am sure if you find some middle ground between your authoritarian approach and their too relaxed approach you will get the project done.

arleitiss

true-or-false wrote: »

But do you not see how much more damage you do by pushing them?

I also meant to say, if there is a college forum available for contacting each other and posting progress, you really, really shouldn't be texting them and bothering them on facebook. It's extremely unprofessional and you have said that this is meant to be treated as a real work experience.

No one treats that college forum seriously, unless asked to write something on it or check something none of team members will check and read it unfortunetely. when I post something on forum I have to write on facebook group too saying there has been update on forum.

arleitiss

Chucky the tree wrote: »

At the end of the day if it's nearly done why not just finish it off yourself? Instead of spending time doing plans, schedules, texting them, etc just do the work yourself and then take them to the cleaner is the reflections.

I had that idea before, but when I offered them that I make their bits they strongly defend their bits and keep saying that they will do it themselves. Most likely because they think they will fail project then if I do it for them. In this case I can't really tell them "I don't care, I will do your part, just back off" if they want to do it they are free to do it as long as it's done on time.

Chucky the tree

arleitiss wrote: »

I had that idea before, but when I offered them that I make their bits they strongly defend their bits and keep saying that they will do it themselves. Most likely because they think they will fail project then if I do it for them. In this case I can't really tell them "I don't care, I will do your part, just back off" if they want to do it they are free to do it as long as it's done on time.

Just gonna have to sit and wait then. Maybe do their parts as back-up just in case. At the end of the day you can force them to work quicker. If they get the work in an hour before the deadline it's the same as two weeks before the deadline. It's second year in college, this will be a last minute job.

arleitiss

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Just gonna have to sit and wait then. Maybe do their parts as back-up just in case. At the end of the day you can force them to work quicker. If they get the work in an hour before the deadline it's the same as two weeks before the deadline. It's second year in college, this will be a last minute job.

I have already started a seperate branch on git (like backup plan) which no one has access to. I am doing their bits, when people say it's only second year: I forgot to mention 1 important part: "This module has no exam, all mark is based on project, if you fail it you have to pay like 170 euro and stay in college for summer working on another project and doing presentation again"

arleitiss

arleitiss wrote: »

when people say it's only second year: I forgot to mention 1 important part: "This module has no exam, all mark is based on project, if you fail it you have to pay like 170 euro and stay in college for summer working on another project and doing presentation again"

You're not going to fail. You'd have to hand up an absolute piece of crap to fail; if you've put in the effort and each member has something functional to hand up you'll at least scrape a pass. It sounds like you've already got more than enough for a pass and people are going to be much more productive in the last week, bumping the mark up even more. Then there's also your personal 20% mark, bringing your score up to a higher overall mark.

arleitiss

true-or-false wrote: »

You're not going to fail. You'd have to hand up an absolute piece of crap to fail; if you've put in the effort and each member has something functional to hand up you'll at least scrape a pass. It sounds like you've already got more than enough for a pass and people are going to be much more productive in the last week, bumping the mark up even more. Then there's also your personal 20% mark, bringing your score up to a higher overall mark.

It's a simple project so why not try and max out the mark?

Pinewoo

Hi OP,

I've worked in the "industry" a few years now and as you know these days in software being able to work in a team is just as important as the languages, technologies, etc used. It seems to me right now you don't even have the skills necessary to work in a team, let alone manage a project.

Sorry for being blunt but use it as a learning experience. I work in one of the largest software companies in the world and there's a huge amount of people (like those in your team) who don't pull their weight in projects, let others do all the work and even people who couldn't give a flying f**k about the project or team yet are on the same salary as me.

They exist everywhere, and would drive you mental (frank grimes comes to mind) UNLESS you learn now to tolerate them, without letting them make you angry, or stressed out.

arleitiss

Pinewoo wrote: »

Hi OP,

I've worked in the "industry" a few years now and as you know these days in software being able to work in a team is just as important as the languages, technologies, etc used. It seems to me right now you don't even have the skills necessary to work in a team, let alone manage a project.

Sorry for being blunt but use it as a learning experience. I work in one of the largest software companies in the world and there's a huge amount of people (like those in your team) who don't pull their weight in projects, let others do all the work and even people who couldn't give a flying f**k about the project or team yet are on the same salary as me.

They exist everywhere, and would drive you mental (frank grimes comes to mind) UNLESS you learn now to tolerate them, without letting them make you angry, or stressed out.

But how are those people still in work then? I mean do they not do the thing at all or do they finish it overdue?
I mean we were taught in project it's: Price/Quality/Time.
So which one suffers because of them? I mean if you are project for example to do, and those people who can't get it on time, wouldn't the project either require more expenses, be worse quality than expected or be overdue?

LeinsterDub

arleitiss wrote: »

It's a simple project so why not try and max out the mark?

It's second year most don't care. A pass will do

arleitiss

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's second year most don't care. A pass will do

But that's pretty much as saying: "Don't talk in class, others are trying to learn, they pay for education and they want to actually get good marks"

So if most don't care = automatically everyone in group should suffer and lose marks?

I am sure it's worth for those who want marks to try and change something?

Pinewoo

arleitiss wrote: »

, wouldn't the project either require more expenses, be worse quality than expected or be overdue?

All 3 of those scenarios are very, very common in the software industry.

desaparecidos

You've a branch where you're doing their parts. Good plan. Time will roll on and your useless teammates will still have **** all done with half a day left and will be no doubt all end up in a lab thinking they can get a 4 month project done in a couple of hours. They'll be glad to take your code then. They'll pass handsomely solely due to your hard work.

This is a great life/workplace lesson.

desaparecidos

If anyone missed it, the lesson is that your colleagues are invariably useless idiots.

Lone Stone

I had a group project once to make a short animated film, it went awfull like anything that could have went wrong went wrong, people didnt do the work people got pissed off. It started out well we all pitched in and worked on the idea, took in some guy who had no group a week in, one guy i lived with did feck all two lads tried their best but they just werent really up to it due to work outside of college etc,I ended up doing most of it myself was insanely stressed out over it we had like four weeks it was crap the worst in the class.

It went so bad we got really good marks you know because group projects arent all about what your making its about a learning experience of how you work with people and how you tried to resolve the problems and not so much about the what we were making.

You sound really bossy and over bearing, do you know if people have the same time to put into this that you do ? did they get any say in the project ? because people arent exactly enthusiastic to work on an idea that they had no part in especially students was it the same type of code they all used before is was it some type that you were use to ? Was it a group project or your project with people working on it. Because it sounds like it was your project.

arleitiss

Lone Stone wrote: »

I had a group project once to make a short animated film, it went awfull like anything that could have went wrong went wrong, people didnt do the work people got pissed off. It started out well we all pitched in and worked on the idea, took in some guy who had no group a week in, one guy i lived with did feck all two lads tried their best but they just werent really up to it due to work outside of college etc,I ended up doing most of it myself was insanely stressed out over it we had like four weeks it was crap the worst in the class.

It went so bad we got really good marks you know because group projects arent all about what your making its about a learning experience of how you work with people and how you tried to resolve the problems and not so much about the what we were making.

You sound really bossy and over bearing, do you know if people have the same time to put into this that you do ? did they get any say in the project ? because people arent exactly enthusiastic to work on an idea that they had no part in especially students was it the same type of code they all used before is was it some type that you were use to ? Was it a group project or your project with people working on it. Because it sounds like it was your project.

It was one of our group members idea, which was developed after first class we did brainstorming and came up with different ideas. Then since none of us had any clue about Android platform developing and those guys know I was really good with learning codes and adopting to new environments quickly so I offered them to learn android while I develop a mainframe from which each of them can work on.

Calhoun

arleitiss wrote: »

And yes I was following their progress over these 4 months, apparently it always ended up with: "I didn't know how to do it, I am doing it, I am reading it, it's gone, it didn't work or I don't know...", it got to the point where I wrote to someone on facebook and the guy read message but ignored me, I told one other team member that other team member ignored me and he was surprised because he knows we have to do project. That sub-lecturer told me to treat this project as real thing, that's why this module is called "project", we weren't thaught any kind of programming for it or anything, it was literally given task and thrown into a pit to sort out stuff ourselves. We've been set deadlines for things and that's it. Lecturer said we will write reflection (about other team members) how they worked or how they didn't work, and lecturer said that if project does not complete on time team leader is to take blame and will lose marks while the rest of team will have a bit higher marks.

So really? People are saying I should back off and just sit there and wait? Sounds like quite a crap plan to be honest.

And by the way, all team members have vote and right to change project however they want, if someone has idea - great, we use it always, if 3 out of 4 people don't like specific thing in project we remove it (for example, we removed our crappy logo that we had at start and we agreed we need new logo now and loading screen to be implemented), but the thing is that usually it's 1 person who does their own bit and starts to vote out parts of their bit just to avoid doing something.

Guess it's all my fault for choosing them all without knowing them well.

Sorry OP but i can't help but giggle a little when i read your posts, not to sound condescending but the human drama and immaturity/lack of experience is funny. Your post reminds me of past experiences and how i might have acted back then.

First, i piece of wisdom that was given to me when i started on the road of project management work is that the hardest job of a project manager is to motivate people who you don't manage to complete a collective goal. You can't force them to do the work for you, so you need to use all your people skills to influence them to work with you.

Second, i disagree that they haven't taught you anything for this task it looks like it is doing exactly what it should which is teach how to work in a team. I don't want to burst your bubble but your a long way off being a project manager your people skills definitely seem to be lacking, dont confuse good individual task management with project management work which is team based in nature.

Third, you really don't come off well in this one, you claim that there is voting mechanisms in place ect and the team is run like a democracy but from your original post you basically describe everything been driven by you. You also describe that there was another PM but you took over, if your posts here are anything to go by i would guess that the team have lost complete confidence in you.

I would also guess that you are coming across as a dictator to them and they in turn are using avoidance rather than having to deal with you. This in turn will probably leading them to uniting against the common torn in their side yourself and will lead to some interesting reflections. I wonder would your team mates view you like this?

Group Member 4 (me): 19 years old, I love programming and I love getting as high scores in tests and projects as possible especially when project is really simple one.

No? i didn't think so, you have two weeks to turn this around what do you do? You could dig your head in the sand further and blame everyone else but the reality of the situation is the PM job that you took over comes with responsibility, regardless of what the others did you are in charge of delivering on time and you are in charge of uniting the team to do this. As you havent done this you run risk of not completing the task.

Alternatively you could start giving this task the respect that it deserves as you have found out team dynamics are anything but simple. Look inward to reflect on how you could do better as a team lead and what it would take from you to motivate the others to complete on time.

I hope this helps, i do think these thoughts are at the back of your head otherwise you wouldnt have posted here. Good luck and hopefully you get a good grade.

arleitiss

Calhoun wrote: »

Sorry OP but i can't help but giggle a little when i read your posts, not to sound condescending but the human drama and immaturity/lack of experience is funny. Your post reminds me of past experiences and how i might have acted back then.

First, i piece of wisdom that was given to me when i started on the road of project management work is that the hardest job of a project manager is to motivate people who you don't manage to complete a collective goal. You can't force them to do the work for you, so you need to use all your people skills to influence them to work with you.

Second, i disagree that they haven't taught you anything for this task it looks like it is doing exactly what it should which is teach how to work in a team. I don't want to burst your bubble but your a long way off being a project manager your people skills definitely seem to be lacking, dont confuse good individual task management with project management work which is team based in nature.

Third, you really don't come off well in this one, you claim that there is voting mechanisms in place ect and the team is run like a democracy but from your original post you basically describe everything been driven by you. You also describe that there was another PM but you took over, if your posts here are anything to go by i would guess that the team have lost complete confidence in you.

I would also guess that you are coming across as a dictator to them and they in turn are using avoidance rather than having to deal with you. This in turn will probably leading them to uniting against the common torn in their side yourself and will lead to some interesting reflections. I wonder would your team mates view you like this?

Group Member 4 (me): 19 years old, I love programming and I love getting as high scores in tests and projects as possible especially when project is really simple one.

No? i didn't think so, you have two weeks to turn this around what do you do? You could dig your head in the sand further and blame everyone else but the reality of the situation is the PM job that you took over comes with responsibility, regardless of what the others did you are in charge of delivering on time and you are in charge of uniting the team to do this. As you havent done this you run risk of not completing the task.

Alternatively you could start giving this task the respect that it deserves as you have found out team dynamics are anything but simple. Look inward to reflect on how you could do better as a team lead and what it would take from you to motivate the others to complete on time.

I hope this helps, i do think these thoughts are at the back of your head otherwise you wouldnt have posted here. Good luck and hopefully you get a good grade.

Never said I am becoming PM straight off college, in fact no body does after getting just bachelors degree, it's kind of silly to say that I have somewhere wrote something like: "Once I get my degree, I am becoming PM" obviously not nor I see place where you read I am.

Secondly: Yes maybe my team is willing to do things, maybe they want to do them, but I have this feeling they are simply just as to say... technically unable to do them. As much of study they tried doing, they are taking risk of being expelled over plagiarism rather than learning, android platform is a good bit to learn (in case you aren't familiar with it), as much as I tried helping and pretty much teaching them (I have skill to explain and give lessons of individual things, I was accepted and working in first semester as one of those sub-lecturers (pretty much helping lecturer during labs and answering peoples questions and I am getting more hours in semester 1 in next academic year). I tried a lot but that simply didn't work, either they simply don't want to do it or they just can't .

I am staying back every day for 3-4 hours after college I am helping 4 other groups with their project, I love programming so I don't mind helping my good friends who are in other groups. I have asked my team to stay back lots of times, they always had excuses.

I know it's all my own fault for choosing such....as to say: incompetent team members.

I might go the way some people suggested... use seperate branch to finish all their bits, then if they don't finish them, merge them with main project and write reflections as they are.

Guess I will just do as most suggested: completely leave them alone, I am sure that will pretty much stall/stop any progress but well at least they wont' feel any pressure if their main priority is to not do anything and lose marks - let it be so.

Thanks for suggestions.

Calhoun

arleitiss wrote: »

Never said I am becoming PM straight off college, in fact no body does after getting just bachelors degree, it's kind of silly to say that I have somewhere wrote something like: "Once I get my degree, I am becoming PM" obviously not nor I see place where you read I am.

Secondly: Yes maybe my team is willing to do things, maybe they want to do them, but I have this feeling they are simply just as to say... technically unable to do them. As much of study they tried doing, they are taking risk of being expelled over plagiarism rather than learning, android platform is a good bit to learn (in case you aren't familiar with it), as much as I tried helping and pretty much teaching them (I have skill to explain and give lessons of individual things, I was accepted and working in first semester as one of those sub-lecturers (pretty much helping lecturer during labs and answering peoples questions and I am getting more hours in semester 1 in next academic year). I tried a lot but that simply didn't work, either they simply don't want to do it or they just can't .

I am staying back every day for 3-4 hours after college I am helping 4 other groups with their project, I love programming so I don't mind helping my good friends who are in other groups. I have asked my team to stay back lots of times, they always had excuses.

I know it's all my own fault for choosing such....as to say: incompetent team members.

I might go the way some people suggested... use seperate branch to finish all their bits, then if they don't finish them, merge them with main project and write reflections as they are.

Guess I will just do as most suggested: completely leave them alone, I am sure that will pretty much stall/stop any progress but well at least they wont' feel any pressure if their main priority is to not do anything and lose marks - let it be so.

Thanks for suggestions.

Stop being petty, the advice i gave was relevant no matter when you became a PM, now or in 10 years and is actually more geared for interpersonal skills than anything else.

On your second point, have you thought that maybe they dont want your help? You come across as someone who has a very big ego, is condescending and is judgmental. Answer me this if someone came to you and advised that they would teach them how would you take it? Your there peer you can offer support but they dont have to take it and from how you describe them i wouldnt take your help either.

I am staying back every day for 3-4 hours after college I am helping 4 other groups with their project, I love programming so I don't mind helping my good friends who are in other groups. I have asked my team to stay back lots of times, they always had excuses.

Bigger the fool the spends his time doing other peoples work and not his own , i'm sure your friends love your help as they get free support without having to deal with you as their PM. I would hazard a guess they inflate the ego a little bit, its what i would do have you eating out of me hand and doing what i wanted (sound like they have good influencing skills. Meanwhile why you busy yourself your real job is falling apart.

I know it's all my own fault for choosing such....as to say: incompetent team members.

If thats all you feel you have learned you have got nothing from this exercise, i feel from what you have said that your fault is that you inserted yourself into a role of people management and you do not have the skillset to get the job done. You really should have met as a team and nominated one of the others to do it so you could focus more on singular tasks which you are better at.

I would be very careful of the reflections, one of the other things you will learn about team dynamics is how a negative contributor to a team can unite the remaining members. If i was in their shoes and i knew there was no way back i would be hanging this on your head but you don't really want to get into this situation.

What you need to do is realize that you either win together or you sink together, the team that looks good in this situation is the one that overcame diversity and incompatibility to deliver something on time as a team. The team that looks bad is the team that delivers something but poisons any achievement with tit for tat right ups/reviews.

Last point is your only 19 allot of what i said above and allot of what others said you have already discounted, you will eventually get to a position where we see more eye to eye as you will have experience and matured. You can make the next few years a little bit easier on yourself by taking some of the advice in this thread.

arleitiss

arleitiss wrote: »

I know it's all my own fault for choosing such....as to say: incompetent team members.

arleitiss wrote: »

Guess it's all my fault for choosing them all without knowing them well.

The majority of the posts here are trying to tell you different and you're refusing to listen. They're not incompetent. They're lazy, at most, but realistically I'd say they're just people who have been driven demented by you and no longer want to stay in contact about the project or put much effort into it. Again: because of you.

I'm finishing up 4th year now. I've done group work many times, and yes, there's usually someone in the group who doesn't pull their weight as much as you want them to. On a few occassions the majority of the group didn't pull their weight as much as the rest of the team wanted them to. Once, I had to stay up all night, working till 8am the next day (hand in was at 9) on a project I had finished 2 weeks beforehand, because the person who was meant to put all the different parts together fell through, and every other member only handed their part in at 12 the previous night, one of whom I spent half the night chasing for references, and it turned out he'd plagairised the lot, which I had to then redo. So I get what it's like to want more from your team and not get it.

But these people you're with, they're NOT incompetent. They're exasperated about the project because they have an absolute nightmare PM.

Systemic Risk

true-or-false wrote: »

The majority of the posts here are trying to tell you different and you're refusing to listen. They're not incompetent. They're lazy, at most, but realistically I'd say they're just people who have been driven demented by you and no longer want to stay in contact about the project or put much effort into it. Again: because of you.

I'm finishing up 4th year now. I've done group work many times, and yes, there's usually someone in the group who doesn't pull their weight as much as you want them to. On a few occassions the majority of the group didn't pull their weight as much as the rest of the team wanted them to. Once, I had to stay up all night, working till 8am the next day (hand in was at 9) on a project I had finished 2 weeks beforehand, because the person who was meant to put all the different parts together fell through, and every other member only handed their part in at 12 the previous night, one of whom I spent half the night chasing for references, and it turned out he'd plagairised the lot, which I had to then redo. So I get what it's like to want more from your team and not get it.

But these people you're with, they're NOT incompetent. They're exasperated about the project because they have an absolute nightmare PM.

This Op is the problem. You are probably demotivating the team. I would have been very dilligent when it came to college projects and quite often would have assumed a leadership role. However if i was in your group i would have definitely rebelled.....i would have probably done it differently than your group and had a mutiny to oust you as PM but i can see why they are avoiding staying in to work late with you.

arleitiss

If many say "rebelled", "disliked", "demotivated" and so on...

Another question appears: Why the hell do they not say anything? I said that they should write if they think it's fair or not, I asked their opinions, I always ask their opinions on my parts, they never say anything.

So far from all advices only solution I've seen is: ease off and let project sink/fail and lose marks.

Is there any perhaps other suggestion of actually how to make it to be finished on time?

arleitiss

Also for part where people said I am pretty much stupid for helping others:
What's bad explaining and helping out friends you have and who helped you before in maths and business modules in first year where I could've failed?

I don't get some of the community, on one hand people are saying I shouldn't be an asshole who forces team and should sit back and leave everyone alone, and on another hand I should be a complete dick to other people in course? - seriously , I don't get this logic. Explain please?

woodchuck

OP the message just doesn't seem to be sinking in for you. I think virtually everyone on this thread has agreed that YOU are the problem. It sounds like your interpersonal skills are seriously lacking and that is an absolutely vital part of project management. It doesn't matter how good you are at doing and delegating tasks; if you can't manage people then it's all pointless.

Unless you're willing to eat some humble pie (which I highly doubt from the tone of your posts) then I'd leave well enough alone here. If you to contact them about anything it should just to be to pull the final bits of the project together in the final week. But to be honest from the way you've treated them up until now it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't do their bit purely out of spite.

It sounds like you have enough to pass at this stage so I would just try to accept a lower mark than you're used to and view this as a life lesson. What should you have learned? You're terrible at managing people. The next time there is a group project make sure you are NOT the project manager. You could seriously benefit from seeing how someone else handles the situation. They might not be the best at it, but to be honest I don't see how their people skills could be any worse than yours. You need to learn how to work within a team before you try to lead one.

If project management is something you're really serious about pursuing down the line then it's your interpersonal skills you need to work on. Hopefully this will come somewhat naturally with time and experience, but you really need to accept your own limitations in this area in order to try and improve yourself.

woodchuck

arleitiss wrote: »

Another question appears: Why the hell do they not say anything? I said that they should write if they think it's fair or not, I asked their opinions, I always ask their opinions on my parts, they never say anything.

They obviously don't see you as an approachable person. It all feeds into the poor interpersonal skills. If you had good interpersonal skills they'd be much more likely to pipe up with any questions/suggestions/concerns etc. I'm no expert at this myself, but I'm sure there are courses/workshops (or even online material) to advise on the best way to deal with people. It's little things like how the question is phrased, tone of voice and body language that make all the difference.

arleitiss wrote: »

Also for part where people said I am pretty much stupid for helping others:
What's bad explaining and helping out friends you have and who helped you before in maths and business modules in first year where I could've failed?

I don't get some of the community, on one hand people are saying I shouldn't be an asshole who forces team and should sit back and leave everyone alone, and on another hand I should be a complete dick to other people in course? - seriously , I don't get this logic. Explain please?

I don't think think it's bad to help out other people in your course (although they may be taking advantage of you...), but there is a big difference between doing a favour for someone who wants your help vs managing a team.

Lawliet

arleitiss wrote: »

So far from all advices only solution I've seen is: ease off and let project sink/fail and lose marks.

Is there any perhaps other suggestion of actually how to make it to be finished on time?

You can't make it be finished on time, bar by doing it yourself. Such is group work. You can drag a horse to water and all that. The reason you're being told to ease off is because you've been so over-bearing about this project for months, and it didn't work. So you became even worse. Everyone is telling you that that's not going to work either, but you won't listen. You need to back off and stop treating your classmates like your incompetent employees. It might not get the project done, but it'll improve the atmosphere and people are a lot more willing to meet you half way when you're not breathing down their neck giving orders.

Neyite

arleitiss wrote: »

Also for part where people said I am pretty much stupid for helping others:
What's bad explaining and helping out friends you have and who helped you before in maths and business modules in first year where I could've failed?

Its not "bad". Its just unwise when you are up against deadlines, to focus your attentions elsewhere. Posters are trying to point out to you that the very people you are trying to help will leave you high and dry when you need the help to meet a deadline.
Working on other peoples work at the expense of your own projects = pushover.
Working on other peoples work after you have done what is necessary on your own projects = helpful and friendly.

wrote:

I don't get some of the community, on one hand people are saying I shouldn't be an asshole who forces team and should sit back and leave everyone alone, and on another hand I should be a complete dick to other people in course? - seriously , I don't get this logic. Explain please?

Why do you feel that your only choices are either being a dick or being an asshole? You can be nice, but still firm and get your point across. And I think that maybe you were either/or with your team, and thats why it didn't go well.

OP, you are a perfectionist, and a high achiever. This is great, and employers will love it. BUT, they also have to see the big picture. They want to make stuff to sell at a profit. They dont want to divert their energies to sorting out staff squabbles because one team member likes to plan ahead and do their work in a timely manner and another is a "last minute" kind of person. In a real world situation, (and this is what people here are trying to explain to you) you are LESS of an ideal employee than the team members you are disparaging, because you come across as intolerant of their work methods if they are not like yours.

Essentially, your team dont take college as seriously as you. They dont CARE about getting top marks in this. They just want to scrape a pass. And it sounds like it will. They are looking at the big picture, and thinking "this is second year, next year and the year after will be all business and hard work, now is the time to coast a little".

I'm sorry to say, it wont change much after graduation. The difference is that you will be working on projects with your Supervisor, or your Managing Director who will leave you hanging. How are you going to handle that when it happens? You cant give them deadlines, or complain about them to the client. So what do you do? All you can do is fulfil your part of the task, document your tasks for proof that you did all that you were supposed to do, and pitch in at the last minute to tie up the loose ends, regardless of who let the team down.

This is what I suggest you do now. Clearly document your input, prepare the final elements of the project that are critical in case your team members dont deliver, be professional when discussing your project, (imagine its a client) be tactful and accept the pass mark.

imitation

I think the comments are a little unfair on the op, perhaps college flashbacks for some ? You can trot out people skills as an excuse for the others behaviour but the real problem is the gulf in commitment levels between the others and op. Not too suprising as it's second year college. At the end of the day though this is the purpose of group projects, some real world experience, just like a real project people will go at different speeds. That lecturer was wrong to say treat it like the real world, in the real world you can motivate up to certain point and then call he. You can't do this, best you can do is a plea. Setting iron clad goals or 6 page targets will make you look like a loon and still won't get you an A, but may lead to a miserable remainder of college. I think it's obvious to the lecturers what's happening so I'd just do what you can in reason and move on.

Solair

Did you ever stop to consider that maybe they can't do it?
The idea of a project is that it's a learning experience, not a bunch of tasks to be divided up and worked on your own.

You're in 2nd year computer science, maybe building an android app is actually way too complicated a task?

If you're that keen on doing it, you really need to pool your knowledge and help each other. All you've done is attempt to break the task up and then get angry because people can't do it.
They've actually said they can't do it, yet you're still pushing it ?!!

In a company, you'd start to see people resigning and going on sick leave if you tried that!

Did the lecturer set the project or did you pick it yourself(s)?

You should probably check what the actual requirements are as to me that sounds beyond the abilities of a 2nd year CS student. Maybe if you all work as a group it might be doable, but not on your own like that!

I've done plenty of projects over my time in college and they were always enjoyable. We literally worked together as a team around one big desk figuring stuff out.

I think you're going about this all wrong.

1) Read/discuss the requirements and set yourselves an achievable task not something that's worthy of a final year / postgraduate project ! It only has to hit the targets requires not show off.

2) work as a proper team! You may have better programming skills than your teammates. If so, help them out! That's what team work is about.
Someone else may be better concentrating on the write up, designing the UI or whatever. Skills vary !
Your task as a project manager is to get the best out of people. You sound like you're trying to compete with them.

emuhead

OP, something you may want to bear in mind is that your team mates could well be working in the same area in the future. Yes, you are only on the degree with them for 2 years more, but your interpersonal relationships with the team (and probably the class, as I'm sure they are talking to the rest of the class about this) could well have a bigger impact on your career than a top grade for a 2nd year project.

Personal recommendations go a long way in any industry. Rightly, or wrongly, the people on your team could well be in a position to recommend you for a job in the future. I understand that you want a high grade for this project, but I would recommend chalking this down to experience and trying to sit down at the end and calmly ask for feedback from your team on your role. If you can take this on board it will go a long way towards improving your project manager skills and showing that you have learned from this experience.

I've been on projects where people don't pull their weight and it's frustrating, but as other posters have pointed out, it does continue to postgrad and after (on the job), so team skills are just as important as technical skills.

Best of luck

Big Bag of Chips

To answer your question... Yes, your counter measures are too harsh.

Even though you were well intentioned, you handled this terribly, and rather than pulling your team together and encouraging/helping them, what you have actually done is pushed them away where they are afraid to work with you.

You love programming, you love learning new languages... Not everyone on a CS Degree Course feels the same. People straight out of secondary school pick college courses for all sorts of reasons.

The one lesson you need to take from this project is that not everyone shares your love for programming and application development... And that oftentimes being a project manager needs more than being good at delegating tasks, and drawing up timetables, deadlines and rules.

You're in 2nd year. You have another 2 years college, and about 15 years working before you'll 'get it'... Life experience is a great educator.

username123

Whats the consequence if the others dont pull their weight? You do it anyway.

So, they dont like how you are running the show and know if they do nothing you'll still get them the marks.

You really set yourself up for this, dont be surprised if no one does anything from here to the end.

arleitiss

Alright, to brief my assignment in college here I've literally downloaded PSD file with module description and uploaded it:
The description outlines all the requirements,, one of outcomes is to learn to meet strict (keyword) deadlines and others are to learn to work in a team. It briefly states project leader requirements and role.

-snip-


I've asked nicely people to stay back or come to class before, never worked probably because people are just too used to skipping college as well.

OP I have snipped your private docs - they could be personally identifying