Cost of slatted tank per bay?

dungfly · 11-04-2013 05:27PM #1

I am building a 4 bay slatted tank within an existing building. Any idea of cost per bay these days? Accommodation for 14 cubicles with a moving barrier. Using existing walls & roof. So just interested in the tank cost?

Massey10 · 11-04-2013 05:38PM

dungfly wrote: »

I am building a 4 bay slatted tank within an existing building. Any idea of cost per bay these days? Accommodation for 14 cubicles with a moving barrier. Using existing walls & roof. So just interested in the tank cost?

i put in 67'x12x9 last year about 13k plus vat plus digging.

Juniorhurler · 11-04-2013 06:43PM

73 x 12'6 x 8 going in here at the moment. Will cost 13k as well with slats on. That included digging and the man is not vat registered so a bit of vat to come back on materials from that.

weekendfarmer · 11-04-2013 06:54PM

will be shot but .... I converted a long hayshed years ago. 4" block on flat and plastered it

laid approx 200 blocks each night after work and got a proper plasterer to plaster it

cheap job at the time, was just after getting the place and was skint ... hasn't leaked and its up about 15 years at this stage

sh1tstirrer · 11-04-2013 07:24PM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

will be shot but .... I converted a long hayshed years ago. 4" block on flat and plastered it

laid approx 200 blocks each night after work and got a proper plasterer to plaster it

cheap job at the time, was just after getting the place and was skint ... hasn't leaked and its up about 15 years at this stage

how deep is the tank? If it is over 5 foot deep it was built with one block on edge and one block flat. That way you have a 12" wide wall.

td5man · 11-04-2013 07:41PM

dungfly wrote: »

I am building a 4 bay slatted tank within an existing building. Any idea of cost per bay these days? Accommodation for 14 cubicles with a moving barrier. Using existing walls & roof. So just interested in the tank cost?

AFAIK €250-300 a foot tank and slats not sure if that includes vat

weekendfarmer · 12-04-2013 08:01AM

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

how deep is the tank? If it is over 5 foot deep it was built with one block on edge and one block flat. That way you have a 12" wide wall.

8ft .... have 3 high on edge , then i cased a 10" wide, 12" high reinforced wall on top of that, finished off with blocks on flat. It was a long baby so I split the tank
in the middle .... maybe overkill, It was a lot of work at the time ...

The thing to watch with converting existing sheds is that the slats
can end up starting out a lot from the back walls, not a problem if you make them into the creep area. One mistake i made was leaving the creep too flat.
Am going fixing that this year though as getting to old for this forking

Farmer Pudsey · 12-04-2013 09:35AM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

will be shot but .... I converted a long hayshed years ago. 4" block on flat and plastered it

laid approx 200 blocks each night after work and got a proper plasterer to plaster it

cheap job at the time, was just after getting the place and was skint ... hasn't leaked and its up about 15 years at this stage

I have heard of more than one tank build with block that has had no issue's. Believe it or not in most cases it is water leaking that is an issue rather than slurry going out. If there is no water coming in then the slurry will seal the sides of the tank in a few years. This is what happens in England and Scotland where they build Lagoons without liners abeit in a much dryer climate.

If water leaks in it the leakage point will get larger over time ergo more water and over time slurry will get out. However if the other way around slurry will actually seal the hole and the side of the walls.

The main reason for the agri specs is to prevent structural faults in tank. Often if a tank is in a dry are where weight bearing against walls will be minimal the actual structural strenght of a tank would not need to be of the agri specifications. However if not laying the blocks yourself there is little or no savings between Block or mass concerete. That is why on sidewall very few farmers use Block unless they can lay them themselves.

reilig · 12-04-2013 09:47AM

The other side of it is that I have seen a block tank leak. It was an overground 6ft tank and the farmer put a pit of silage up against the tank wall. The whole pit of silage was contaminated with slurry effluent which seeped through the wall. He had to get a digger to empty the tank. That was 10 years ago. The tank is still being used, it's still seeping a little bit, but it runs off into another tank lower than it. It hasn't sealed itself yet - how long should it take?

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have heard of more than one tank build with block that has had no issue's. Believe it or not in most cases it is water leaking that is an issue rather than slurry going out. If there is no water coming in then the slurry will seal the sides of the tank in a few years. This is what happens in England and Scotland where they build Lagoons without liners abeit in a much dryer climate.

If water leaks in it the leakage point will get larger over time ergo more water and over time slurry will get out. However if the other way around slurry will actually seal the hole and the side of the walls.

The main reason for the agri specs is to prevent structural faults in tank. Often if a tank is in a dry are where weight bearing against walls will be minimal the actual structural strenght of a tank would not need to be of the agri specifications. However if not laying the blocks yourself there is little or no savings between Block or mass concerete. That is why on sidewall very few farmers use Block unless they can lay them themselves.

sh1tstirrer · 12-04-2013 09:59AM

reilig wrote: »

The other side of it is that I have seen a block tank leak. It was an overground 6ft tank and the farmer put a pit of silage up against the tank wall. The whole pit of silage was contaminated with slurry effluent which seeped through the wall. He had to get a digger to empty the tank. That was 10 years ago. The tank is still being used, it's still seeping a little bit, but it runs off into another tank lower than it. It hasn't sealed itself yet - how long should it take?

An overground block tank, that's asking for trouble. There will be no reinforcing unlilke the underground tank.

Farmer Pudsey · 12-04-2013 10:30AM

reilig wrote: »

The other side of it is that I have seen a block tank leak. It was an overground 6ft tank and the farmer put a pit of silage up against the tank wall. The whole pit of silage was contaminated with slurry effluent which seeped through the wall. He had to get a digger to empty the tank. That was 10 years ago. The tank is still being used, it's still seeping a little bit, but it runs off into another tank lower than it. It hasn't sealed itself yet - how long should it take?

I wonder was it the silage or rain water that broke the barrier from outside. Also as over ground it would be suspectible to frost damage. Under fround this would not be an issue. I be slow allowing silage effluent into them also.

lakill Farm · 12-04-2013 02:37PM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

8ft .... have 3 high on edge , then i cased a 10" wide, 12" high reinforced wall on top of that, finished off with blocks on flat. It was a long baby so I split the tank
in the middle .... maybe overkill, It was a lot of work at the time ...

The thing to watch with converting existing sheds is that the slats
can end up starting out a lot from the back walls, not a problem if you make them into the creep area. One mistake i made was leaving the creep too flat.
Am going fixing that this year though as getting to old for this forking

Explain that to me again :rolleyes: please.

what way are the blocks?

reilig · 12-04-2013 03:22PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I wonder was it the silage or rain water that broke the barrier from outside. Also as over ground it would be suspectible to frost damage. Under fround this would not be an issue. I be slow allowing silage effluent into them also.

Slurry effluent, not silage effluent.

Frost would penetrate the top rows of a block tank underground also. It is possible that the effluent from the silage pit penetrated from outside. It's even more possible that the builder skimped on the mortar, failed to waterproof the plaster, or didn't apply enough coats or thick enough of coats of plaster - This could happen with any block tank and highlights the importance of quality control.

weekendfarmer · 12-04-2013 03:38PM

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weekendfarmer · 12-04-2013 03:39PM

looked better in real life i promise

weekendfarmer · 12-04-2013 03:43PM

reilig wrote: »

Slurry effluent, not silage effluent.

Frost would penetrate the top rows of a block tank underground also. It is possible that the effluent from the silage pit penetrated from outside. It's even more possible that the builder skimped on the mortar, failed to waterproof the plaster, or didn't apply enough coats or thick enough of coats of plaster - This could happen with any block tank and highlights the importance of quality control.

frost dosen't penetrate .... water expands when below -1

how do you water proof plaster???????

pakalasa · 12-04-2013 06:46PM

From S. 123 Departments spec on re-inforced tanks.

1.1 Blockwork Tanks and Channels

Tanks, and channels,not more than 1.2m in depth, may be constructed with 225mm solid concreteblocks. Any such block wall longer than10m shall incorporate [at max. 10m intervals] a 450 x 450mm pillar extended onthe outer face of the wall. Walls shallbe plastered both sides to a thickness of 12mm. [3:1 washed sand/cement withplasticiser incorporated]. No tank orchannel in contact with silage effluent shall be constructed of blockwork. All blockwork tanks and channels shall becoated on the inside with a proprietary acid resistant bitumastic coating.

Farmer Pudsey · 12-04-2013 10:05PM

reilig wrote: »

Slurry effluent, not silage effluent.

Frost would penetrate the top rows of a block tank underground also. It is possible that the effluent from the silage pit penetrated from outside. It's even more possible that the builder skimped on the mortar, failed to waterproof the plaster, or didn't apply enough coats or thick enough of coats of plaster - This could happen with any block tank and highlights the importance of quality control.

The silage was up against the wall of the tank. speck for silage walls is quite high for two issue one is silage effluent in the silage itself which could stick to wall and damage plaster and morter, second he could have damaged joints while compacting silage.

Only in years where we hot very hard frost 2009/10 and 2010/2011 would we have an issue with it penetrating below ground. Even then slats are above tank and there is usually a concrete apron in front over tank and usually a lie back on the shed. An overground block tank is a total different kettle of fish. It is also suspectible to rain damage and would be always damp because of this

dungfly · 13-04-2013 06:20PM

Any ideas regards a moving barrier and slat mats in a barn conversion?

weekendfarmer · 15-04-2013 09:10AM

http://www.odonovaneng.ie/cattle/cow-pow-moving-silage-feed-rail/

Have a look ...

reilig · 15-04-2013 10:14AM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

frost dosen't penetrate .... water expands when below -1

how do you water proof plaster???????

Yes, and if the water freezes, it expands and causes cracks and the frost is said to have penetrated.

Plaster can be water proofed by adding a waterproofer or plasticiser to the mix when mixing the mortar.

reilig · 15-04-2013 10:18AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The silage was up against the wall of the tank. speck for silage walls is quite high for two issue one is silage effluent in the silage itself which could stick to wall and damage plaster and morter, second he could have damaged joints while compacting silage.

Only in years where we hot very hard frost 2009/10 and 2010/2011 would we have an issue with it penetrating below ground. Even then slats are above tank and there is usually a concrete apron in front over tank and usually a lie back on the shed. An overground block tank is a total different kettle of fish. It is also suspectible to rain damage and would be always damp because of this

I'm not saying that it wasn't the silage. He doesn't think it was as he always ran a cover between the walls and the silage, but the slurry pushed through the cover and contaminated the pit. In simple terms, he would have had a much more reliable job and a longer life job if he had poured his tank.

It's that simple. Savings made by building a block tank over a poured tank are negated by the risk and longevity of the tank. It's certainly something that no engineer would recommend!

weekendfarmer · 15-04-2013 10:18AM

Plasticizer makes plaster more workable and easier to render .... it does not have any water proofing characteristics

weekendfarmer · 15-04-2013 10:20AM

reilig wrote: »

I'm not saying that it wasn't the silage. He doesn't think it was as he always ran a cover between the walls and the silage, but the slurry pushed through the cover and contaminated the pit. In simple terms, he would have had a much more reliable job and a longer life job if he had poured his tank.

It's that simple. Savings made by building a block tank over a poured tank are negated by the risk and longevity of the tank. It's certainly something that no engineer would recommend!

An engineers objective is to cover his own @ss 100% .... not to save you money.

weekendfarmer · 15-04-2013 10:40AM

To some up in case lads are converting sheds.

Listen to people like pakalasa who quotes and referenec Departments specs

Massey10 · 15-04-2013 10:57AM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

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Why not a foundation block 12" wide . Ive seen them used in a good few tanks.

reilig · 15-04-2013 11:09AM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

To some up in case lads are converting sheds.

Listen to people like pakalasa who quotes and referenec Departments specs

Water proofer for mortar

http://www.watco.ie/sbr-waterproof-additive.html

SBR Waterproof Additive
Improves the adhesion, strength, water resistance and durability of cement mortars

Plasticiser as opposed to Plasticizer

One of the most popular brands in the country Durabond. Here's the data sheet:

http://www.mcl.ie/datasheets/waterproofer_plasticiser.htm

The first lines say:

Durabond Waterproofer and Plasticiser is a concentrated admixture for cement mixes to reduce water permeability and entrain air. It can be used in concrete, renders and mortar to reduce the passage of moisture and suction. It is especially useful in rendering and dry dashing where it is important to prevent too much suction in backing coats.

I would appreciate it if you would change your post which says that I do not know what I'm talking about. In fact you even quoted me wrong when you tried to quote me.

reilig · 15-04-2013 11:11AM

weekendfarmer wrote: »

An engineers objective is to cover his own @ss 100% .... not to save you money.

So you think that the Department Specs are not approved by an engineer?

An engineer's objective is to design or approve a structure which has been proven to witstand any forces placed on it. Block tanks have not been proven to do this, therefore an engineer won't approve it.

You could save money by having a clay lined tank which may or may not cause pollution.

Farmer Pudsey · 15-04-2013 11:20AM

There are waterproofers for Plaster. These are not plasticisers. There are also water proofers that you apply with a brush. However these are designed to allow water to run off side of wall. Very few prevent dampness where water is in contact all the time with plaster. This would be the case if he lined the plaster with plastic before putting silage aginst it. If silage was bad due to slurry it is unlikly that it came through plastic. He may have used an old silage cover in which case water going down between wall and plastic would also be an issue.

In the case of an overhead tank you would have to plaster inside and outside. Again like laying blocks unless you do it your self it would negate cost comparrison between mass concrete and block wall. You would also need to put on at least one sctrach and maybe two scratch coats and then a plaster finish coat and ideally sponge all. The finiancal saving of an overhead block tank would be minimal as opposed to an underground one and a lot more risky due to weather damage.

The savings are if you can do the labour self. My own choice woul always be a mass concrete wall as I would not have the time or skill level to lay blocks.

reilig · 15-04-2013 11:34AM

I have some experience with paint on PVA waterproofers, but they wouldn't have industrial strength. The idea of a plasticiser or waterproofer mixed with mortar is to prevent the mortar/plaster from soaking water into it. It makes plaster easy to work with by not allowing the moisture in the plaster to be soaked into dry block work - This stops it from drying too soon and makes it easier to work with, as well as allowing you to work with it for longer. It reduces the permiability of the plaster or mortar when it is first laid or when it is dry and therefore acts as a waterproofer preventing for example, the blocks on a house wall from soaking rain through the outside plaster of a house. It ultimately helps to negate dampness in houses as well as frost damage to the plaster on houses and would have a similar impact if it was used in the mortar used to build blocks in a tank or in the plaster used to plaster the blocks or a tank.

Wall was plastered inside and out. Plastic on the sides was new.
In speaking to him over the weekend, his opinion was that the dry silage put into the pit when it happened absorbed the moisture from the tank through the blocks, plaster and all. It was possible that the plastic lining got torn during the making of the pit. Weather was not a factor in the damage as all of the area was roofed.

I would be of the same opinion to yourself towards the block tanks. When you count the time it would take to build the thousands of blocks required, a poured wall could work out even cheaper.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There are waterproofers for Plaster. These are not plasticisers. There are also water proofers that you apply with a brush. However these are designed to allow water to run off side of wall. Very few prevent dampness where water is in contact all the time with plaster. This would be the case if he lined the plaster with plastic before putting silage aginst it. If silage was bad due to slurry it is unlikly that it came through plastic. He may have used an old silage cover in which case water going down between wall and plastic would also be an issue.

In the case of an overhead tank you would have to plaster inside and outside. Again like laying blocks unless you do it your self it would negate cost comparrison between mass concrete and block wall. You would also need to put on at least one sctrach and maybe two scratch coats and then a plaster finish coat and ideally sponge all. The finiancal saving of an overhead block tank would be minimal as opposed to an underground one and a lot more risky due to weather damage.

The savings are if you can do the labour self. My own choice woul always be a mass concrete wall as I would not have the time or skill level to lay blocks.

Farmer Pudsey · 15-04-2013 12:17PM

reilig wrote: »

So you think that the Department Specs are not approved by an engineer?

An engineer's objective is to design or approve a structure which has been proven to witstand any forces placed on it. Block tanks have not been proven to do this, therefore an engineer won't approve it.

You could save money by having a clay lined tank which may or may not cause pollution.

An engineer objective in specing anything is not to lose his professional indemnity insurance for his work. I was once told that if he has two claims that he cannot get insurance again and has to work under supervision i.e. he cannot work as a sole trader.

So when he specs anything he calculateswhat strenght it needs to be. When he has arrived at this spec he adds 50% to it and then double the whole [EMAIL="f@@King"]f@@King[/EMAIL] thing to be sure to be sure.:D:D

On dept of agri specs a lot is to do with the dept trying to allow for what happens on the ground such as contractors adding water etc

Cost of slatted tank per bay?

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