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Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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Comments

  • #872
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Norwesterner wrote: »
    So it a sign of a functioning democracy that people are allowed to celebrate others deaths as long as you personally don't like the person being celebrated?

    As for your other point.
    Would you agree with arresting those who gloat over a killed IRA member on the basis it would "inflame sectarianism and hatred in a volatile situation??

    You're just cherry picking and creating a hierachy of victims.
    Either the rule is for everyone or it's a farce.
    Celebrate a PSNI man getting killed and you get arrested.
    Celebrate Alan Ryan getting killed and it's fine.

    This is precisely what was done during the troubles. If a catholic was killed/murdered, once they were labelled a republican then it became acceptable. All other killings committed by Republicans were deemed to be terrorist outrages.


  • #873
    Norwesterner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Norwesterner


    space_man wrote: »
    This is precisely what was done during the troubles. If a catholic was killed/murdered, once they were labelled a republican then it became acceptable. All other killings committed by Republicans were deemed to be terrorist outrages.
    Still being done today in 2013.


  • #874
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Norwesterner wrote: »
    Still being done today in 2013.

    Any examples?


  • #875
    Norwesterner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Norwesterner


    SamHall wrote: »
    Any examples?
    Most recently the media reaction to the killing of Alan Ryan, with headlines like "He had it coming"...."He won't be missed" etc.


  • #876
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    karma_ wrote: »
    And I'm saying that Hume had guarantees that if the two demands I listed were met the strike would have been called off.


    Maybe so, but it still means were they political or criminal prisoners?

    The establishment would always have viewed them as criminal therefore why should they have concessions different to someone who'd murdered his wife and serving life in HMP Maghaberry or Magilligan


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  • #877
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Maybe so, but it still means were they political or criminal prisoners?

    The establishment would always have viewed them as criminal therefore why should they have concessions different to someone who'd murdered his wife and serving life in HMP Maghaberry or Magilligan

    Thatcher therefore must have considered them political then as she eventually conceded to the demands, too late unfortunately.


  • #878
    hare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭hare


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There were 5 demands from the hunger strikers

    The right not to wear a prison uniform;
    The right not to do prison work;
    The right of free association with other prisoners, and to organise educational and recreational pursuits;
    The right to one visit, one letter and one parcel per week;
    Full restoration of remission lost through the protest.

    It all depends on the viewpoint were they criminals (Terrorists) or were they political activists (Freedom Fighters).
    The deal was offered after the fourth death.adams kept it from the men .


  • #879
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Norwesterner wrote: »
    So it a sign of a functioning democracy that people are allowed to celebrate others deaths as long as you personally don't like the person being celebrated?

    As for your other point.
    Would you agree with arresting those who gloat over a killed IRA member on the basis it would "inflame sectarianism and hatred in a volatile situation??

    You're just cherry picking and creating a hierachy of victims.
    Either the rule is for everyone or it's a farce.
    Celebrate a PSNI man getting killed and you get arrested.
    Celebrate Alan Ryan getting killed and it's fine.

    I don't think something as sacred as democracy should be used as an excuse to publicly celebrate anyone's death tbh. What exactly is democratic about it? It doesn't really scream 'egalitarianism'.

    I'm guessing you weren't all too happy with how some people reacted to the murder of Alan Ryan, so why are you asking me why it's seen as okay to do only in certain cases? I've never in my life said I was glad to hear of anyone's death.


  • #880
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Maybe so, but it still means were they political or criminal prisoners?

    The establishment would always have viewed them as criminal therefore why should they have concessions different to someone who'd murdered his wife and serving life in HMP Maghaberry or Magilligan

    Why were there special terms imposed on any convicted of such offences then...?


  • #881
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Norwesterner wrote: »
    Most recently the media reaction to the killing of Alan Ryan, with headlines like "He had it coming"...."He won't be missed" etc.

    Alan Ryan had links to drugs and criminality.

    Hardly the traits of a worthy Republican (in my eyes)


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  • #882
    Weathering
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Weathering


    SamHall wrote: »
    Alan Ryan had links to drugs and criminality.

    Hardly the traits of a worthy Republican (in my eyes)

    With a name like sam I don't think any republican is worthy in your eyes


  • #883
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    SamHall wrote: »
    Alan Ryan had links to drugs and criminality.

    Hardly the traits of a worthy Republican (in my eyes)

    Do you get upset when people say the same about the provos?


  • #884
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Bambi wrote: »
    Do you get upset when people say the same about the provos?

    No.


  • #885
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Weathering wrote: »
    With a name like sam I don't think any republican is worthy in your eyes

    Theres no place for that kind of sectarian shite in republicanism.


  • #886
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Weathering wrote: »
    With a name like sam I don't think any republican is worthy in your eyes

    What would my name, a website username at that. Have to do with my views on republicanism?


  • #887
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    SamHall wrote: »
    No.

    So the provos had traits not worthy of republicans due to their links with criminality and drugs? :confused:


  • #888
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Bambi wrote: »
    So the provos had traits not worthy of republicans due to their links with criminality and drugs? :confused:

    The ones who indulged in it.

    That generalisation is like saying that Catholic Church is a paedophile tbh.

    I personally didn't know, don't know any ex provisional's charged and sentenced with drug dealing though.

    Does it happen? Probably.


  • #889
    Power Gear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Power Gear


    Top marks both to Glenda Jackson and to Bercow.




  • #890
    Weathering
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Weathering


    Nodin wrote: »
    Theres no place for that kind of sectarian shite in republicanism.

    Chill out. You obviously aren't aware of humour. You're good at jumping the gun.


  • #891
    dupeters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭dupeters


    thatcher is dead. let her family grieve in peace i am a republican and proud of it but i was raised not to speak ill of the dead.
    this woman was a mother and a grandmother who happened to be irelands worst enemy,but in saying that her failings should be left for another day. history will judge her and her party for what they did and didn't do during our darkest hour. but i think we should be respectful of a fallen enemy.


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  • #892
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why were there special terms imposed on any convicted of such offences then...?

    Who knows, as I said earlier ( borrowing from someone else )

    Politicians don't always have a choice between right and wrong decisions, just wrong and less wrong


  • #893
    Norwesterner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Norwesterner


    SamHall wrote: »
    Alan Ryan had links to drugs and criminality.

    Hardly the traits of a worthy Republican (in my eyes)
    I've seen zero evidence of that other than tabloid tittle-tattle.
    By those who knew him, (family, friends and IRA comrades) he was virulently anti drugs, and despised dealers.
    If you have information, please furnish us with it.


  • #894
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Norwesterner wrote: »
    I've seen zero evidence of that other than tabloid tittle-tattle.
    By those who knew him, (family, friends and IRA comrades) he was virulently anti drugs, and despised dealers.
    If you have information, please furnish us with it.

    Ok fair enough.

    You're right, I know nothing about the man other than what I read in the tabloids.


  • #895
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    SamHall wrote: »
    Alan Ryan had links to drugs and criminality.

    Hardly the traits of a worthy Republican (in my eyes)


    Couldn't be further from the truth,but of course I don't need to ask how you came to this conclusion.


  • #896
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Weathering wrote: »
    Chill out. You obviously aren't aware of humour. You're good at jumping the gun.


    Fair enough. It's hard to tell that type of humour round here is me only defence.


  • #897
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    SamHall wrote: »
    Ok fair enough.

    You're right, I know nothing about the man other than what I read in the tabloids.

    You could say that no one actually knows anything about MT apart from what has been read in various papers over the years
    Funny how in one case you shouldn't believe everything but in another, well that's just different!


  • #898
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You could say that no one actually knows anything about MT apart from what has been read in various papers over the years
    Funny how in one case you shouldn't believe everything but in another, well that's just different!

    It may surprise you to learn that I didn't form my opinion on Thatcher from 'tabloid reports'.


  • #899
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You could say that no one actually knows anything about MT apart from what has been read in various papers over the years

    No you couldn't. Or at least you could't without sounding like an idiot. :confused:


  • #900
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Bambi wrote: »
    No you couldn't. Or at least you could't without sounding like an idiot. :confused:


    I put the full quote up rather than your selective one, as context is such a bore
    You could say that no one actually knows anything about MT apart from what has been read in various papers over the years.Funny how in one case you shouldn't believe everything but in another, well that's just different!


    Or you couldn't unless you knew him/her, which is the question really, should you believe everything in newspapers about Alan Ryan or not, if you don't then should you believe everything written in newspapers about MT or not?


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  • #901
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I put the full quote up rather than your selective one, as context is such a bore




    Or you couldn't unless you knew him/her, which is the question really, should you believe everything in newspapers about Alan Ryan or not, if you don't then should you believe everything written in newspapers about MT or not?

    Yeah context is great when you're back pedalling alright :P

    You're comparing someone who was a media unknown until he got whacked to one of the most well known political figures of the post war era. It's idiotic on a number of levels so obvious that I'm hoping I won't have to point them out.


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