Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Krusty_Clown · 05-04-2013 05:29PM

Today: JD Plan A 2 x 3 miles at tempo

Plan called for 2 x 15-20 minutes at tempo, which is a little bit vague, but with Wednesday's 5k in the legs, I decided to err on the side of caution and split the difference. Given that three miles (12x400m to be more specific) is bang in the middle of that range, I settled on that as the duration for the tempos.

Session:
3 miles easy (22 mins).
3 miles Tempo in 17:09 @5:43/mile (3:34/km), HR=154
3 miles easy (22 mins)
3 miles Tempo in 17:16 @5:45/mile (3:36/km), HR=156
3 Miles easy (21.5 mins)

After Wednesday's 5k, the tempo sections actually felt quite comfortable, so I was somewhat regretting the fact that I hadn't gone for 20 minutes, but with more tempo work in the plan for Sunday, I think I made the right choice. At this stage I shouldn't be suffering the 'I should be doing more' thoughts, but still those dirty ideas still creep in. Speaking of dirty thoughts, I wore the Saucony Type A5 racing flats for the third time, and I'm beginning to have impure thoughts about wearing them for the marathon.

Summary: 15.4 miles in 1:42, @6:40/mile, HR=~140

BTH · 05-04-2013 08:13PM

You went wih the A5s then. Nice shoe ain't they

Krusty_Clown · 05-04-2013 08:50PM

BTH wrote: »

You went wih the A5s then. Nice shoe ain't they

Yep. Very good. Much like my Kinvaras, there's just less of them! Wore them for the race on Wednesday also, and I'm sure they contributed towards my time (which has been officially recorded as 16:18.92). I think I'll stick with 16:23 as my official PB. Any faster and I'd be taking my own urine sample and dropping it into the authorities for checking.

Gavlor · 05-04-2013 09:10PM

I'm 'borrowing' todays session to add to my sub 3 Hal Higdon/ p&d/ JD/ boards.ie 16 week programme

Krusty_Clown · 06-04-2013 08:44AM

Gavlor wrote: »

I'm 'borrowing' todays session to add to my sub 3 Hal Higdon/ p&d/ JD/ boards.ie 16 week programme

Having a training plan identity crisis?! You're just missing Salazar, Canova, Noakes and ecoli! (Gotta collect 'em all!).

The challenge with picking and choosing specific sessions from different plans is that you lose the progressive nature that has been designed into each individual training plan and are instead just going out and hammering decent sessions. You will get a good training stimulus, but without the general developmental improvement. For example, that tempo session I did yesterday has had a couple of months of ramp-up tempo sessions (in fact, that session is actually on the ramp-down part of the schedule, and is easier than preceding tempo sessions). Not saying you won't get benefit from it (you would), but you will not get the same benefit as if you followed the general flow of the plan. Given its placement in the schedule, that session should feel pretty easy, not challenging. Here are some of the preceding tempo sessions:

Week 9: 2ME + 20mT + 10mE + 20mT + 2ME
Week 8: 2ME + 2x2MT + 10ME + 3MT + 2ME
Week 8: 2ME + 8x1MT + 2ME
Week 7: 2ME + 4x2MT + 2ME
Week 6: 3ME + 3MT + 3ME + 3MT + 2ME
Week 5: 2ME + 4x1MT + 10ME + 4x1MT + 2ME
Week 4: 40mE + 3MT + 40mE + 3MT + 2ME
(where M = miles, m = minutes, T = tempo, E = easy).
There are two sessions per week, where the other session (if not listed) is either a long run or PMP run. I simplified the sessions above a little by converting times to miles. Some of the above sessions run to 20-22 miles, so in the grand scheme of things, they may be better suited to a higher mileage plan (e.g. 65+mpw).

If you're not doing it already, you may find it more beneficial to select a single plan as an overall template, and then substitute in/out specific sessions that meet your needs or target specific weaknesses.

Gavlor · 06-04-2013 09:11AM

Thanks for that Krusty, it makes sense that these plans are designed for progression & improvement. The big problem I've had for the limerick training cycle was that the likes of Hal Higdon advanced are too easy yet I couldn't give the time commitment for the likes of p&d (ill only have broken 50 mile wks twice)so I kind of tried to take the best from both. Looking back its been packed full of good sessions and I just hope there's enough progression built in.

I'll definitely try follow a more structured plan next time.... But I'm kind of enjoying the challenge to get sub 3 without huge mileage!

Krusty_Clown · 06-04-2013 10:01AM

Gavlor wrote: »

Thanks for that Krusty, it makes sense that these plans are designed for progression & improvement. The big problem I've had for the limerick training cycle was that the likes of Hal Higdon advanced are too easy yet I couldn't give the time commitment for the likes of p&d (ill only have broken 50 mile wks twice)so I kind of tried to take the best from both. Looking back its been packed full of good sessions and I just hope there's enough progression built in.

I'll definitely try follow a more structured plan next time.... But I'm kind of enjoying the challenge to get sub 3 without huge mileage!

Structured plans don't have to be high mileage. I think I followed the 50mpw P&D plan when I ran 3:00:50 in Berlin (peaked at around 50mpw). Next time round, I peaked at 55-60mpw and ran 2:55. The plan doesn't have to be very structured either. JD plan has two sessions per week, and you run the other miles whenever you like (which suits my current lifestyle) and you pick your own peak mileage (but obviously, you need to be able to manage the longer sessions). But you seem to be making solid gains, so stick with it. Seems to be working for you!

Gavlor · 06-04-2013 10:09AM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Structured plans don't have to be high mileage. I think I followed the 50mpw P&D plan when I ran 3:00:50 in Berlin (peaked at around 50mpw). Next time round, I peaked at 55-60mpw and ran 2:55. The plan doesn't have to be very structured either. JD plan has two sessions per week, and you run the other miles whenever you like (which suits my current lifestyle) and you pick your own peak mileage (but obviously, you need to be able to manage the longer sessions). But you seem to be making solid gains, so stick with it. Seems to be working for you!

What you're really saying to me is 'get off your lazy ass and do some proper research'!!!!

Krusty_Clown · 06-04-2013 10:43AM

Gavlor wrote: »

What you're really saying to me is 'get off your lazy ass and do some proper research'!!!!

Nah, not at all! If something's working for you, keep doing it. When it stops working, slows down or has side effects (injury) then change!
You never know, you could be creating the next great training regime!

Gavlor · 06-04-2013 10:47AM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Nah, not at all! If something's working for you, keep doing it. When it stops working, slows down or has side effects (injury) then change!
You never know, you could be creating the next great training regime!

Or I'll be cursing my 'plan' as I run like Forrest gump in leg braces for the last 3 miles of the marathon

Krusty_Clown · 06-04-2013 02:12PM

Today: 5.5 mile recovery run

Despite not having had any booze for a few weeks, I woke up with a nasty hangover, so must not have drank enough water after yesterday's session. An easy recovery run in the sunshine was a perfect antidote, and it was lovely, running along the coast in t-shirt and shorts, while the snow-capped mountains of Djouce and Prince William's seat provided the backdrop for the fantastic weather.
Summary: 5.5 miles in 44 mins, @8:03/mile

blockic · 06-04-2013 06:18PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Haha, really?! I find that I get quite hungry (but bear in mind it's been 70-100mpw for the last 2.5 months) and find that it's quite easy to hit my quota on low mileage days (but don't get near it on higher mileage days, now that I'm off the beer).

I typically eat three good meals a day:
Breakfast: 600-700 calories
Lunch: 700 calories
Dinner: 700-1000 calories
Throw in some fruit, and that's already close to my daily target (2,350). I average around 10 miles per day, which is another 1,000 calories. I've attached yesterday food diary.

That all adds up to around 3,000 calories. I ran 6 miles (roughly an additional 600 calories), so was probably bang on target (2,350 + 600). That doesn't include any of the calories I shed from two hours of rock climbing/bouldering with the kids, so I probably had a deficit yesterday. Like I said, I'm not too anal about these things. If it took me more than 3-4 minutes a day to track it, I just wouldn't bother. As of this morning, my current weight is still 11 stone 1.5lbs (70.5kgs), which is well under the target I had set myself for race weight, though I still expect it will creep up closer to target over the next 2.5 weeks). As you can see from my eating habits, I ain't no angel. I just avoid large amounts of crappy food.

Great post Krusty and it's the one that made me take the plunge with the myfitnesspal app.

I never really needed to worry about weight and I was naturally at ideal weight for upcoming marathon going into taper 2 weeks ago (69.5kg). However, reduced mileage in taper and no reduction in me eating anything in sight

has resulted in one thing...weight gain! In around taper time is probably where it would be most beneficial to monitor the situation I'm exactly in! I'm finding it great so far and it pretty instantly highlights the problem areas!! Interesting experiment and definitely going to give it a go for a few weeks. Cheers for the heads up. Hopefully I get back under the 70 mark in time!

Badreputation · 06-04-2013 08:05PM

Congrats on the 5k pb. Unreal running. I actually purchased the Jack Daniels book recently but I am getting more info from your training log!!! Add in the race reports and its essential weekly reading. Best of luck in London.

Krusty_Clown · 07-04-2013 08:44AM

Badreputation wrote: »

Congrats on the 5k pb. Unreal running. I actually purchased the Jack Daniels book recently but I am getting more info from your training log!!! Add in the race reports and its essential weekly reading. Best of luck in London.

Thanks much, but there are lots of guys running much faster than me... I just wrap it up in 'purty words to make it sound better. I'm a bit like Kenny Craig..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhVpyzORf8Q

Dory Dory · 07-04-2013 06:11PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Thanks much, but there are lots of guys running much faster than me... I just wrap it up in 'purty words to make it sound better. I'm a bit like Kenny Craig..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhVpyzORf8Q

So.....that's how you bagged Emer?

;)

Krusty_Clown · 07-04-2013 08:26PM

Dory Dory wrote: »

So.....that's how you bagged Emer? ;)

The practice of bagging (or throwing a potato sack over a maiden's head during a tribal village raid) died out years ago, Dory Dory! Just because we live in Ireland doesn't mean we're completely backwards! No, I did it the more modern way (horse tranquilizers).

Krusty_Clown · 07-04-2013 10:40PM

Today: JDA 3x2 Mile @ Tempo + 10k easy

Arrived at the cinder track to find it occupied. I thought it was Fionnula Britton doing an intensive workout, but on closer inspection, it turned out to be Emer911 doing some 1200m reps (that's got to be worth a few brownie points

). Strange to find anyone else at the track (particularly someone I knew) as I'm used to having the entire park to myself for these sessions. Might explain why the first rep was a little faster than it should have been, before Emer disappeared having finished her session. Had the usual windy conditions along one stright.

Session:
2.5 miles easy @7:16
2 Miles tempo @5:40/mile, HR=156
2 mins easy
2 Miles tempo @5:48/mile, HR=154
2 mins easy
2 Miles tempo @5:44/mile, HR=156
10k in 46 mins, @7:27/mile

Not the most pleasant, but that's probably due to the proximity to the previous session on Friday and the strong head-wind on my post-rep easy 10k run. Have abandoned ideas of wearing the Type A5s for the marathon (how's that for fickle), as having worn them for the third time in 5 days, my achiles were complaining, so the Kinvaras are just a safer bet.

Well, another session in the bag, with just a few left between me and London. A solid 72 mile taper week, with a couple of core sessions and 4.5 hours of rock climbing. Weight still dropping slightly, which is unusual, given the amount of food I am eating, but between running, climbing and core, I packed in 14 hours of exercise, which probably explains it. Don't want to lose anymore weight, but 60 and 40 mile weeks with less core/climbing will help with that.

Summary: 15.9 miles in 1:46, @6:40/mile, HR=~138

Krusty_Clown · 10-04-2013 05:46PM

Monday: 6 mile recovery run
A bit of a niggle introduced during the previous day's tempo session, demanded that this one be a recovery run. No better way to force yourself to run at a suitable recovery pace, than to head out with someone else. So 6 miles of loops around the nearby field with Keith was the order of the day, executed to 8:17/mile recovery perfection!

Tuesday: 7 miles steady
I wanted to remind myself that I have some speed (usual taper paranoia), so a steady run to Dundrum Shopping Centre (with a 30 minute break) and a steady run back (with full backpack) that felt comfortable ticked the box. On the way back, I was keeping an eye on the watch as I had a meeting at 3pm (didn't stop me from going the long way!). The final mile clocked in at 5:54, and I arrived back into the office at exactly 3pm in a sweaty mess, only to find that the meeting had been called off. Typical! Followed up with an hour of bouldering with the ladies, that left my hands and feet calloused and my arms painfully sore.
Summary: 7 miles in 40 mins, @~6:28/mile

Wednesday: 3 x 2 Mile @Tempo
A terrible night's sleep (too much afternoon coffee I suspect) and I was tempted to put this one off until Thursday. But.... I had asked the guys to fetch me some Lucozade Sport so I could try it out on the stomach before the race in London, and before I knew it, I had drank half of the massive 750ml bottle. No point drinking that crap for nothing, so I threw on the gear and headed out into the miserable afternoon. I had around 90 minutes before I had to be back in work for an afternoon of back-to-back meetings, so I couldn't afford to hang around on the warm-up, but by 2.5 miles I knew I was in trouble with stomach cramps so had to make an immediate detour for a public rest-stop.

The natural cause/reaction thought process would lead me to believe that this was caused by the Lucozade Sport, but given that there was only 30 minutes (and 2.5 miles between when I consumed it and when I suffered, I'm assuming that's probably a little too soon to draw any conclusions (and abandon thoughts of sports drinks during the marathon). Any biologists/human anatomy experts with an opinion? Could a consumed liquid cause an upset stomach within 30 minutes?

Anyway, back to the running. Usual cinder track environment. Wet, windy, and lots of school-kids looking on. In fact on this occasion there was an entire class of teenage schoolkids doing the long jump into the sandpit beside the track, so I was the cause of much derision and amusement. Didn't hamper me any though, and I got through the intervals according to the plan, splitting each 2 mile tempo section with an easy 2 minute jog around the track.

Tempo 1: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=155
Tempo 2: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=154
Tempo 3: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=155
(2 miles is actually 1.998 miles, but paces are accurate).

Even though I wasn't paying too much attention to the watch in the second half of each two mile interval, they all finished in the same second (never had that happen before). No sooner than I had finished, I had to grab my jacket and leg it the 3 miles back into work (ended up with 10 minutes to spare). That was the last tough'ish session. The rest of the runs are just included in the schedule to stop me from going stir-crazy.

Summary: 12.4 miles in 1:18, @6:20/mile, HR=~144 (with a few breaks).

TRR · 10-04-2013 06:28PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Could a consumed liquid cause an upset stomach within 30 minutes?

Definitely yes. Not saying it is necessarily the lucozade but possible that something ingested could have an effect that quick.

Coffee is my achilles. Gets things moving mighty quick

but that would be the caffeine. Caffeine gels are a no no for me.

Krusty_Clown · 10-04-2013 07:39PM

TRR wrote: »

Definitely yes. Not saying it is necessarily the lucozade but possible that something ingested could have an effect that quick.

Coffee is my achilles. Gets things moving mighty quick but that would be the caffeine. Caffeine gels are a no no for me.

Yes, of course you're right. I had forgotten about the incredible capacity for damage of a humble cup of joe. Might repeat the experiment on Saturday. Would rather find out this weekend, than next weekend.

And some good news today; I got my registration sheet from London (phew!). Red Start (Fast good for age). Happy days. 11 Sleeps!

Kurt Godel · 10-04-2013 08:12PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I had asked the guys to fetch me some Lucozade Sport so I could try it out

Hi Krusty,

Would you say having fetchers at your beck and call has helped your times come down over the years?

Yours in serfdom,

K. Godel

wrstan · 10-04-2013 08:13PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Didn't hamper me any though, and I got through the intervals according to the plan, splitting each 2 mile tempo section with an easy 2 minute jog around the track.

Tempo 1: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=155
Tempo 2: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=154
Tempo 3: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=155
(2 miles is actually 1.998 miles, but paces are accurate).

Even though I wasn't paying too much attention to the watch in the second half of each two mile interval, they all finished in the same second (never had that happen before).

That's some consistency alright :eek:

KielyUnusual · 10-04-2013 08:19PM

wrstan wrote: »

That's some consistency alright :eek:

Tempo 1: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=155
Tempo 2: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=154
Tempo 3: 2 Miles in 11:20 @5:42, HR=155
(2 miles is actually 1.998 miles, but paces are accurate).

Consistency? You're having a laugh.

Krusty_Clown · 10-04-2013 08:21PM

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Hi Krusty,

Would you say having fetchers at your beck and call has helped your times come down over the years?

Yours in serfdom,

K. Godel

Haha. Poor choice of words. My work colleagues were heading off to the supermarché and kindly retrieved me a bottle of Lucozade's finest stomach churning syrup-water. Better?!

Kurt Godel · 10-04-2013 08:28PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Haha. Poor choice of words. My work colleagues were heading off to the supermarché and kindly retrieved me a bottle of Lucozade's finest stomach churning syrup-water. Better?!

Aw, and I was looking for a silver bullet;)

Fan-bloody-tastic training this block, best of luck keeping the ship steady for the next few days!

dev123 · 11-04-2013 08:29AM

Hey Krusty, unreal training over the last few months. Best of luck in London and I hope you get the run your training deserves.

Here is something that might serve as a distraction for the next few weeks:

http://www.grabone.ie/galway/the-secret-beer-garden-3?utm_source=GrabOne+Galway&utm_campaign=ET_12302_ie-main_galway_20130411&utm_medium=email&utm_content=gmail.com

You may already know about it but a tankard and 3 beers for a tenner. Plus over 300 beers from around the world. I could definitely think of worse ways to spend a Saturday afternoon.

Krusty_Clown · 11-04-2013 08:50AM

dev123 wrote: »

Hey Krusty, unreal training over the last few months. Best of luck in London and I hope you get the run your training deserves.

Here is something that might serve as a distraction for the next few weeks:

http://www.grabone.ie/galway/the-secret-beer-garden-3?utm_source=GrabOne+Galway&utm_campaign=ET_12302_ie-main_galway_20130411&utm_medium=email&utm_content=gmail.com

You may already know about it but a tankard and 3 beers for a tenner. Plus over 300 beers from around the world. I could definitely think of worse ways to spend a Saturday afternoon.

That's a cracking deal. Wonder what size those beers are though?! Even still, you couldn't go far wrong. Have you been to one of these before? I'm particularly looking forward to trying some real ale in the Coal Hole in London on Sunday afternoon after the race. I usually break my beer-fast the night before the race and enjoy a couple of relaxers. Must pick out a pub.

Which reminds me, I have a batch of beer (~38 bottles), which should be ready to bottle this weekend. Just the matter of washing and sterilizing 40 bottles to keep the taper-addled brain occupied this weekend. I'll be fat as a fool this time next month.

Oregano_State · 11-04-2013 09:00AM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That's a cracking deal. Wonder what size those beers are though?! Even still, you couldn't go far wrong. Have you been to one of these before? I'm particularly looking forward to trying some real ale in the Coal Hole in London on Sunday afternoon after the race. I usually break my beer-fast the night before the race and enjoy a couple of relaxers. Must pick out a pub.

Really? Would you not be worried about waking up dehydrated on the big day?

I always feel a little off the morning after a few beers, even if it's only 2-3 and I've downed 5 pints of water before bed!

People differ though, if it's worked before don't let me influence you. You're clearly doing a lot right with the way your performances and training have been going over the past few months. You're a model of consistent hard work!

Krusty_Clown · 11-04-2013 09:05AM

Oregano_State wrote: »

You're a model of consistent hard work!

I am indeed a hard-working model, but I find that the cat-walking in high-heels strengthens my calf muscles.

Nah, one or two beers with my dinner won't do me any harm (but it'll be exactly that - one or two). Sure wasn't the Chairman of the boards well-known for enjoying a few pints the night before his big races? I will have drunk so much water and beetroot juice (Kurt's silver bullet!) in the days leading up to the race, that any beer will be just water off a duck's back.

dev123 · 11-04-2013 09:08AM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That's a cracking deal. Wonder what size those beers are though?! Even still, you couldn't go far wrong. Have you been to one of these before?

No, I have not gone to one before. There is more info here:

http://www.beerfestival.ie/

It looks like the 3 beers are 150ml samples and you can buy more 150ml samples of each of the beers at €2 each.

The tenner you save with the voucher can go towards 5 extra samples

A full list of last years beers can be found here:

http://www.beerfestival.ie/2012-beers/

Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

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