Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

wonderfullife wrote: »

1. Nobody will ever argue the right to buy was an unqualified success. Neither was it an unmitigating failure. She allowed council tenants the right to buy. Under all available data, 1 million TENANTS bought their own homes. That's 1 million existing families who bought their own homes under the scheme and 1 million families (much like my own growing up) who would never have had a chance to do such a thing.

That's a positive thing. The fact some rich people got richer as a by-product of the scheme is nothing new. It happens everywhere, even this country. The rich, the developers, the builders, they will always seize opportunities to snaffle up lots of property.

2. Maggie fulfilled a Queen Bee role. She got to the top and did very little to promote other women to positions of power. That's a clear personal negative to her character.

However, in being a woman itself and in reaching the dizzy heights of Prime Minister, she empowered a whole generation of women to show them it COULD be achieved. Previously to this, the idea a woman could be PM of the country was a fairy story. She showed with enough skill and determination people of any gender could reach the top of the tree.

So, again, the act itself of reaching PM is a huge positive in a male dominated era. The Tory party had (i believe) 13 female MPs in 1979. By 2010 they had 50+. It was 13 out of 344 in 1979 and now it's something like 50 out of 270. It's progress.

3. Finally, your attempts to overplay her role in supporting Pinochet are admirable. I highlighted in bold your quote about Thatcher being one of Pinochets main supporters in the overthrow of Allende.

Pinochet overthrew Allende in 1973. At the time Margaret Thatcher was Education Secretary in the Conservative Party. Moreover, she was on thin ice with Heath ready to sack her over the Milk Snatching fallout.

You're trying to tell me from the position of Education Secretary she was one of Pinochets main supporters in overthrowing Allende? LOL.

Here's the reality: from 1971 the CIA was financing and supporting Pinochet, providing him with weapons, intelligence and material support. This was very much intergral to the overthrow of Allende. From 1973-1980 the CIA continued to support Pinochet, to the extent that many of the Generals were informants.

Maggies role in the Pinochet story really has no relevance. It's a distasteful support for the man based almost solely on the help Pinochet offered the UK in the Falklands War.

If anyone should be ashamed of their actions it's the USA and even they refused to apologise for it (President Obama was asked to apologise and he refused saying "we need to learn from the past").

tdv123 wrote: »

Doesn't look like Gerry Adams will miss her too much.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/08/sinn-feins-gerry-adams-labels-margaret-thatcher-shameful-and-a-miserable-failure-3587915/

Noreen1 wrote: »

I generally make a point of respecting the dead, and not speaking ill of them.

However, given the defence of some of her more disastrous policies, I'll say this:

She was very forthright, and made no attempt to "spin" her policies, unlike many of the slimeballs who call themselves "politicians" and "statesmen" nowadays.

Having said that, her policies were extreme - even dictatorial.
The decision to close even profitable mines, for example, rather that closing/winding down the loss-making ones - would suggest that her policies were based more on proving that she could "win" a war with the unions, than making a decision based on economic necessity.

Likewise the sinking of the Belgrano. IMO, that should have resulted in her trial as a war criminal - irrespective of anyones opinion on whether the Falklands should be British or Argentine, sinking a ship that is sailing away, and not posing a threat, is equivalent to ordering the murder of the crew.

Pinochet was a despot. Her support of him was despicable.
Likewise, her position on the ANC was tantamount to approval of Apartheid.
Irrespective of what her personal opinion of Apartheid was, wittingly or otherwise, her policies did nothing to help those who were oppressed.

In Northern Ireland, her policies showed, at best, complete ignorance of, and contempt for, Nationalist grievances. Which made her the greatest recruitment tool the IRA ever had, ironically.

The common link? A "steely determination" to win - whatever the cost.
What a pity that determination wasn't used to improve the lot of all British citizens, Lower, Middle and Upper class, Unionist or Nationalist.
How much could she have achieved?
Instead, that attribute was wasted on some disastrous policies, whose effects are still being felt.

Having said all that, throwing parties to celebrate her death is something I could never approve of.

And on that note, while I could never condone her policies, I can still honestly say. RIP. Vitriol will not change the past, nor the future.
Hopefully, humanity may learn some lessons from her legacy.

extra gravy wrote: »

I don't think Gerry Adams is in any position to call her or anyone else "shameful" considering his own alleged actions in the past.

wylam wrote: »

@extra gravy.As i said he will be given the same treatment when his time come, that we can be certain about.I do not support SF nor am i a supporter of gerry adams but can you tell me of the shameful acts which he has carried out?Documented acts that is ,with evidence to support you statement?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then why did she go to great lengths to bring Nissan to Sunderland and Toyota to Derby?

Three Seasons wrote: »

Did you consider that maybe she did care but she had to make tough decisions which caused pain but were best for the long term prosperity.

true wrote: »

lol. In the first couple of sentences he cribs about sanctions against against apartheid-era South Africa. I remember in the 1980's businesses in Ireland could import goods from South Africa , so why does he not be consistent and complain about (the lack of ) Irish sanctions against S. Afrrica whenever aTaoiseach from that era passes away?

And Adams described her Irish policy "as ‘a failure’, causing ‘great suffering’ by a hardline stance against the Irish republican cause.". It was Adams and his comrades who caused the "great suffering" against the people of these islands, and all for what : his terrorist policies were a failure.

tdv123 wrote: »

Doesn't look like Gerry Adams will miss her too much.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/08/sinn-feins-gerry-adams-labels-margaret-thatcher-shameful-and-a-miserable-failure-3587915/