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Referendum for Irish Unity 2022

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Comments

  • #392
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    I would just love to know the reason somebody couldn't bring themselves to admit such a self evident fact.
    Someone could go on about tolerance, acceptance, respect.... etc tll the proverbial cows come walking in the door, but being unable to admit that little fact shows their true feelings.
    So you are British then yes? You live on the British Isles. And that is an indisputable fact. If you can bring yourself to ignore this indisputable fact then I'm sure you can see how Junder manages the same.


  • #393
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So you are British then yes? You live on the British Isles. And that is an indisputable fact. If you can bring yourself to ignore this indisputable fact then I'm sure you can see how Junder manages the same.

    I'm not sure indisputable means what you think it means.

    Not one square inch of Ireland, North or South is in Britain. That is an indisputable fact.


  • #394
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    karma_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure indisputable means what you think it means.

    Not one square inch of Ireland, North or South is in Britain. That is an indisputable fact.

    Paradoxially it is in the British Isles - same with NI being in Ulster but not if you see what I mean:confused:


  • #395
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Madam wrote: »
    Paradoxially it is in the British Isles - same with NI being in Ulster but not if you see what I mean:confused:

    Nothing paradoxical about that at all, BI is strictly a geographical term.


  • #396
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,780 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    To be logically consistent you have to. Yes Northern Ireland doesn't cover all of Ulster but Ireland doesn't cover all of Ireland

    Logically consistant to a two year old maybe, but no - you dont 'have to'. Plus, "but Ireland doesn't cover all of Ireland" sounds like something out of Father Ted.


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  • #397
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    The term 'island of Ireland' is yet another way for republicans to refuse to acknowledge the existence of Northern Ireland, I don't identify with Ireland or being Irish, so why should I acknowledge the term 'island of Ireland' espically as, as far I'm concerned 'Ireland' is only 26 county's. I don't use the term 'the British isles' so why should I use the term 'the island of Ireland'


  • #398
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    junder wrote: »
    The term 'island of Ireland' is yet another way for republicans to refuse to acknowledge the existence of Northern Ireland, I don't identify with Ireland or being Irish, so why should I acknowledge the term 'island of Ireland' espically as, as far I'm concerned 'Ireland' is only 26 county's. I don't use the term 'the British isles' so why should I use the term 'the island of Ireland'

    It's not a term it just is. The real irony, and one which I admit to finding amusing is, to the vast majority of people in the UK you are as Irish as me.


  • #399
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    karma_ wrote: »
    It's not a term it just is. The real irony, and one which I admit to finding amusing is, to the vast majority of people in the UK you are as Irish as me.

    That's not irony that's lack of education.


  • #400
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    junder wrote: »
    That's not irony that's lack of education.

    For someone in your shoes, it's about as ironic as it gets.


  • #401
    Doublelime
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 165 ✭✭Doublelime


    Yes because Ireland loses way to much money to NI. People go their and buy tons of things. All that tax goes to Britain. It's a leakage from our economy. We deserve that land back.


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  • #402
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭gallag


    Doublelime wrote: »
    Yes because Ireland loses way to much money to NI. People go their and buy tons of things. All that tax goes to Britain. It's a leakage from our economy. We deserve that land back.

    Dont worry, the uk buys more irish goods than visa versa, and why do you feel you deserve my land?


  • #403
    ONeill2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭ONeill2013


    gallag wrote: »
    Dont worry, the uk buys more irish goods than visa versa, and why do you feel you deserve my land?

    Your land? do you own Northern Ireland or something?


  • #404
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So you are British then yes? You live on the British Isles. And that is an indisputable fact. If you can bring yourself to ignore this indisputable fact then I'm sure you can see how Junder manages the same.
    Not one of your better posts.
    I live in (what some call) The British Isles yes, to be precise the isle called Ireland and so does Junder.
    Though we both live on the same island our respective nationalities are different, do you also have difficulty with those little facts?

    junder wrote: »
    The term 'island of Ireland' is yet another way for republicans to refuse to acknowledge the existence of Northern Ireland, I don't identify with Ireland or being Irish, so why should I acknowledge the term 'island of Ireland' espically as, as far I'm concerned 'Ireland' is only 26 county's. I don't use the term 'the British isles' so why should I use the term 'the island of Ireland'
    No, the term island of Ireland comes from that rather innate human characteristic of naming things due to our use of language to communicate. Patches of land totally surrounded by water are named as single entities some are known by different names by different people, some contain two or more countries but all have a single name, and the name of this one in English is Ireland.

    The politicisation comes from you, I could stand by a map of the world point out various islands and ask you their names, if you are very knowledgeable in geography you could answer each time until you get to one particular island which for purely political reasons you would be unable to give a name for.
    It is you Junder who has the issue, are you going to try and tell me that only an Irish republican could answer the question below accurately?

    What is the name of the third largest island in Europe?

    P.S. I would love to see the look on your face if you got that question on Who Wants to be a Millionaire for the 1,000,000 question.


  • #405
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭gallag


    ONeill2013 wrote: »
    Your land? do you own Northern Ireland or something?

    I own a bit of it. What makes you think you deserve it?


  • #406
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Rubeter wrote: »
    Not one of your better posts.
    I live in (what some call) The British Isles yes, to be precise the isle called Ireland and so does Junder.
    Though we both live on the same island our respective nationalities are different, do you also have difficulty with those little facts?



    No, the term island of Ireland comes from that rather innate human characteristic of naming things due to our use of language to communicate. Patches of land totally surrounded by water are named as single entities some are known by different names by different people, some contain two or more countries but all have a single name, and the name of this one in English is Ireland.

    The politicisation comes from you, I could stand by a map of the world point out various islands and ask you their names, if you are very knowledgeable in geography you could answer each time until you get to one particular island which for purely political reasons you would be unable to give a name for.
    It is you Junder who has the issue, are you going to try and tell me that only an Irish republican could answer the question below accurately?

    What is the name of the third largest island in Europe?

    P.S. I would love to see the look on your face if you got that question on Who Wants to be a Millionaire for the 1,000,000 question.


    The politization of the Irish idenity lies squarely at the feet of Irish republicans, they have warped it into something that is anathema to unionists, and made us entirely unwelcome in it as well. Moreover refering to the geographical landmass I live as Ireland gives credence to the lie that I am Irish. I suppose if I was pendantic and a Mla in charge of a department at stormont I could instruct the department to omit the term 'island of Ireland from all departmental documents but I'm not a mla, or pendantic, or a member of Sinn Fein who like to get up to the sort of thing. Instead I make A personnel political choice as to how I refer to the place I live in, I don't correct people who refer to it as the 'island or Ireland' or tell them they are wrong, they make thier choice I make mine


  • #407
    ONeill2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭ONeill2013


    gallag wrote: »
    I own a bit of it. What makes you think you deserve it?

    I can't recall ever saying I deserved it. What makes the queen think she deserves it? who knows


  • #408
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    junder wrote: »
    The politization of the Irish idenity lies squarely at the feet of Irish republicans, they have warped it into something that is anathema to unionists, and made us entirely unwelcome in it as well.
    Which part of the island has had all the problems regarding polarized communities, the one created by republicans or the one created by the loyal folk of Ulster? Seems one worked and the other didn't.
    Surely you don't want to get into who was ultimately responsible for keeping the two communities in NI divided throughout the 20th century?
    You also seem to be forgetting that physical force republicanism was in its death throes by the 60's and the reasons for its revival. The NI state had the chance to bring the two communities together in the mid 60's but it decided to use violence against one of them instead, and well.......you reap what you sow.
    Moreover refering to the geographical landmass I live as Ireland gives credence to the lie that I am Irish. I suppose if I was pendantic and a Mla in charge of a department at stormont I could instruct the department to omit the term 'island of Ireland from all departmental documents but I'm not a mla, or pendantic, or a member of Sinn Fein who like to get up to the sort of thing. Instead I make A personnel political choice as to how I refer to the place I live in, I don't correct people who refer to it as the 'island or Ireland' or tell them they are wrong, they make thier choice I make mine
    Of course you can't tell people who call this island Ireland that they are wrong, that name was around long before you were born and will be around long after you are gone, and will no doubt outlive your very identity. ;)


  • #409
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    karma_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure indisputable means what you think it means.

    Not one square inch of Ireland, North or South is in Britain. That is an indisputable fact.
    And that is indisputably wrong. Every inch of the British Isles covers Ireland. The British Isles contain Ireland. You are British by the same logic Junder is Irish. Lucky for both of you this is 2013 and we don't define nationality by geography. Now grow up and stop telling other people what they are.
    maccored wrote: »
    Logically consistant to a two year old maybe, but no - you dont 'have to'. Plus, "but Ireland doesn't cover all of Ireland" sounds like something out of Father Ted.
    Nope it isn't, a two year old couldn't comprehend this conversation and if you don't lay off the insults you'll be comprehending it on your own.

    Now back to business,
    "Ireland is called Ireland because it makes up the majority (but not all of) Ireland."
    "Northern Ireland can be called Ulster because it makes up the majority (but not all of) Ulster."

    Now this fact may be uncomfortable to you but facts are not designed to suit your ideology and as for the stupid situation we have at the moment where the official name of our country is logically inconsistent. Well you can blame Dev for that.
    Rubeter wrote: »
    Not one of your better posts.
    I live in (what some call) The British Isles yes, to be precise the isle called Ireland and so does Junder.
    Though we both live on the same island our respective nationalities are different, do you also have difficulty with those little facts?
    Oh believe me I have absolutely no problem with that fact. You are Irish and he is British. End of story.


  • #410
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    junder wrote: »
    The politization of the Irish idenity lies squarely at the feet of Irish republicans

    This is absolute bollocks and indicative of the detachment from reality of a lot of fundamentalist loyalists. Unionists had the option to have a pluralistic society in the 6 counties but instead attempted (and failed) to maintain the sectarian statelet and their privileges at all costs - up to and including crushing the civil rights movement with lethal force.


  • #411
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Oh believe me I have absolutely no problem with that fact. You are Irish and he is British. End of story.
    End of story? What story? I question someone for not being able to name the island he lives on and you call me British, hmmm....not much of a story there, just you getting rather confused, not to mention your slightly odd use of the words indisputable and fact. :)


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  • #412
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    End of story? What story? I question someone for not being able to name the island he lives on and you call me British, hmmm....not much of a story there, just you getting rather confused, not to mention your slightly odd use of the words indisputable and fact. :)
    Never once called you British.


  • #413
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Never once called you British.
    OK, you asked me if I was British because I live in the British Isles, which shows your confusion because I am not stating here that anyone is, or isn't, either Irish or British.
    If you are going to say my trying to get someone to give the name of this island means I am trying to say he is Irish, then just remember all your posts claiming the name of the islands are The British Isles, does your stating that mean you are calling all the inhabitants British?


  • #414
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    And that is indisputably wrong. Every inch of the British Isles covers Ireland. The British Isles contain Ireland. You are British by the same logic Junder is Irish.

    The British isles, a term which I personally don't mind at all because it purely is a geographical term to describe the islands which lie within, the two main being Ireland and Britain. I repeat, there is no part of Ireland that lies within Britain, likewise, no part of Britain lies within Ireland.

    What were you saying about being indisputably wrong? This is elementary stuff iwf, you should have picked this up at primary level in fairness.


  • #415
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    OK, you asked me if I was British because I live in the British Isles, which shows your confusion because I am not stating here that anyone is, or isn't, either Irish or British.
    If you are going to say my trying to get someone to give the name of this island means I am trying to say he is Irish, then just remember all your posts claiming the name of the islands are The British Isles, does your stating that mean you are calling all the inhabitants British?
    Nope it doesn't because I don't base nationality off geography. I'm sure Junder is happy to acknowledge Ireland in a purely geographical sense ( such as how you view the British isles) but in terms of nationality it means nothing to him.


  • #416
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nope it doesn't because I don't base nationality off geography. I'm sure Junder is happy to acknowledge Ireland in a purely geographical sense ( such as how you view the British isles) but in terms of nationality it means nothing to him.
    The whole point of this recent discussion is that he isn't.

    By the way British Isles is the name, British isles would mean the isles that belong to Britain. ;)


  • #417
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    The whole point of this recent discussion is that he isn't.

    By the way British Isles is the name, British isles would mean the isles that belong to Britain. ;)
    Well try it out but make sure you're it as only a geographical term.

    whateves. :P


  • #418
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Well try it out but make sure you're it as only a geographical term.

    whateves. :P
    I don't like talking about other posters but I'll point you to this post.
    Quote: I don't use the term 'the British isles' so why should I use the term 'the island of Ireland'

    The topic has been discussed geographically already. Have a re-read of the conversation and you should clearly see it.
    You will also notice I am not discussing nationality in any way.


  • #419
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,780 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nope it isn't, a two year old couldn't comprehend this conversation and if you don't lay off the insults you'll be comprehending it on your own.

    You picked me up wrong - I wasnt trying to insult, I was stating that you were incorrect in your assumption.


  • #420
    EvanCornwallis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭EvanCornwallis


    I am no expert on this , but I do find a few things on this issue funny as an Englishman leaving in Ireland the last few years.

    Firstly , the fact that the people who stood up against our rule in your country are roundly ridiculed by the majority as terrorists. Despite the fact we invaded you (and half the world) and ruled your country with an iron fist. We have probably killed more innocent people and terrorised more parts of the world than anybody in history. Im not the most caring fellow, but I remember being in Belfast years ago and it was shocking to see how Catholics were treated. Lower than second class citizens.

    It's funny that we have the north of the country , yet the most northern county is apart of the republic. Crazy that we got away with that, I don't know the math , but with that considered , I doubt we ever really had a majority.

    The funniest thing is that the poor people that want to be apart of the united kingdom , aren't known and/or cared about by the British people. The people and the government would of given you your 32 counties back years ago if it was that simple. We haven't wanted anything to them with them for quite sometime.


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  • #421
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    EvanCornwallis wrote: »
    I am no expert on this , but I do find a few things on this issue funny as an Englishman leaving in Ireland the last few years.

    Firstly , the fact that the people who stood up against our rule in your country are roundly ridiculed by the majority as terrorists. Despite the fact we invaded you (and half the world) and ruled your country with an iron fist. We have probably killed more innocent people and terrorised more parts of the world than anybody in history. Im not the most caring fellow, but I remember being in Belfast years ago and it was shocking to see how Catholics were treated. Lower than second class citizens.

    It's funny that we have the north of the country , yet the most northern county is apart of the republic. Crazy that we got away with that, I don't know the math , but with that considered , I doubt we ever really had a majority.

    The funniest thing is that the poor people that want to be apart of the united kingdom , aren't known and/or cared about by the British people. The people and the government would of given you your 32 counties back years ago if it was that simple. We haven't wanted anything to them with them for quite sometime.
    I don't really think you're English. If you are then you are seriously ignorant of your own history. More likely though you're a Republican in disguise. Which is frankly bizarre.


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