Does being a Catholic priest in Ireland, make you more likely to be a paedophile?

foggy_lad · 01-04-2013 05:28PM

S0crates wrote: »

Perhaps not the correct forum so Mods please move this thread if necessary, I PM'ed an AH mod asking about it but got no reply.

I was recently having a discussion with a friend over whether being an ordained member of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland made a man more likely to have become a convicted paedophile than if he, say for example, worked as a carpenter. It was my belief that if figures were available, statistics would show that there are many more convicted paedophiles (percentage-wise) who are priests than those from any other single profession.

My assumption is based on the fact that enforced celibacy makes a man more likely to turn to paedophilia. I believe this because the suppression of natural sexual urges for decades in a priest, is in my opinion unhealthy and makes the priest more likely to abuse children, as he cannot have open relations with adults and he believes he can swear a child to secrecy in order to fulfil his urges.

Am I making an unfair generalisation by imagining this? Are there any statistics that can provide an answer? What do you think?

In my opinion these people are paedophiles or have those tenancies at the time they become priests and even before that, many paedophiles relate stories of first engaging in this behaviour from around puberty it is not something one can become over time rather they become better at whatever perversion they engage in through experience.

Artful_Badger · 01-04-2013 05:40PM

Airitech wrote: »

Seems like 8% is considered a conservative estimate. This is from the second article I quoted:

Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it's closer to one in 5. But in either case, the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is not higher than these national estimates

Thats assuming that the figures which are coming from the church itself are accurate though. You also have to take into account that even that study concentrates on the last half century with the 60/70's in particular. The church in Ireland at that time was almost like a state in itself and even the Gardai left cases in their hands to sort out. Most of the victims of abuse didnt come forward until quite a time after that because society didnt want to know at the time because of the influence of the church.

So the rate of unreported abuse would probably be significantly higher than it would in other groups or professions. People were not just silenced by the threat of an individual, they were silenced by the shame of speaking out against the church.

blatantrereg · 01-04-2013 05:41PM

Apparently 95% of child-abusing priests are not paedophiles. Most of them were indiscriminate or generalist offenders. Young boys were just the most easily available victims.

Factors which make people more likely to abuse are isolation, intimacy deficit, a lack of a relationship with their family, or a bad one, and suffering abuse themselves.

Abusive priests did not score differently on psychological or intelligence tests.

I conclude that being a priest does not have a correlation with being a paedophile. However the isolation, absence of sexual and intimate contact that are largely conditions of the position result in non-paedophile priests abusing children.

Obviously the chastity thing should be done away with. It only exists so that priests leave their legacies to the church, instead of to their children. Ridiculous and hugely destructive rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2011/05/what_produced_the_clerical_abu.html

Airitech · 01-04-2013 05:46PM

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Thats assuming that the figures which are coming from the church itself are accurate though. You also have to take into account that even that study concentrates on the last half century with the 60/70's in particular. The church in Ireland at that time was almost like a state in itself and even the Gardai left cases in their hands to sort out. Most of the victims of abuse didnt come forward until quite a time after that because society didnt want to know at the time because of the influence of the church.

So the rate of unreported abuse would probably be significantly higher than it would in other groups or professions. People were not just silenced by the threat of an individual, they were silenced by the shame of speaking out against the church.

I can't find any more in depth studies or any figures to suggest that offending by priests were higher than average. It's just speculation without some kind of evidence. I'd happily take on board a differing view if someone could point me in the direction of something that backs it up.

Artful_Badger · 01-04-2013 05:55PM

Airitech wrote: »

I can't find any more in depth studies or any figures to suggest that offending by priests were higher than average. It's just speculation without some kind of evidence. I'd happily take on board a differing view if someone could point me in the direction of something that backs it up.

Those figures you posted showing it was no higher than normal were also estimates too though based on surveys with some figures coming from the church itself. There just isnt enough information to make a definitive statement either way and there never will be. All we are left with is speculation. And considering the sheer level of abuse by the Church in Ireland and the lengths they went to to cover it up, the length it went on and with societies reluctance to accept faults in the church and clergy I'd be inclined to think that if true figures were found that the current estimates would rise dramatically.

Sound of Silence · 01-04-2013 05:56PM

awec wrote: »

I'm not sure if it makes you more likely, but those priests who did do it I have little doubt that their enforced celibacy had a huge part to play.

Is there any actual verifiable link between Celibacy and Paedophilia? It's not as if someone would have to enter the Priesthood to feel sexually repressed.

Like some other posters have noted, I would be more inclined to believe that such individuals would be attracted to the priesthood in the hope of exploiting a position of trust in what's admittedly a very secretive Organisation. This, coupled with the skewed approach taken by the Catholic Church in regards to issues of sexual misconduct, would likely breed an attractive environment for those who hoped to exploit Children.

Paedophiles are predators in the most absolute form of the word - not repressed individuals.

For that reason they are often attracted to positions of trust and power, not simply in the Catholic Church, but also in Orphanages and Schools; Places where they can easily hide behind the mask of respectability - and in the case of the CC, whilst evading culpability.

morlock_ · 01-04-2013 06:03PM

Pedophiles are everywhere, not just in the priesthood. Just look at NAMBLA who wanted to abolish age of consent laws (most members describe themselves as homosexuals but want to sleep with young boys)

If you research the subject of pederasty in the Catholic Church, it has been a problem dating back thousands of years.

An old man once told me, In his time, priests were considered men of God and not to be trifled with. So it only makes sense pedophiles would be in other positions of power like Judges, Police Officers, Lawyers, Politicians..etc

There's the case of Drasius Kedys who suspected his daughter had been sexually abused by a pedophile ring in Lithuania.

Having made complaints to the police for over a year and being ignored, he shot a Judge and Politician from the ring. Unfortunately he was found dead 2 years later. His family suspect he was murdered and I've no doubt he was.

Jimmy Savile was only the tip of the iceberg, many powerful people in society are pedophiles and they get away with it because people don't want to know.

Airitech · 01-04-2013 06:10PM

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Those figures you posted showing it was no higher than normal were also estimates too though based on surveys with some figures coming from the church itself. There just isnt enough information to make a definitive statement either way and there never will be. All we are left with is speculation. And considering the sheer level of abuse by the Church in Ireland and the lengths they went to to cover it up, the length it went on and with societies reluctance to accept faults in the church and clergy I'd be inclined to think that if true figures were found that the current estimates would rise dramatically.

I don't understand why we don't have solid statistics on what we do know. We know how many convictions were secured against the clergy, the time periods they occurred and the number of clergy active in that period. We have the same figures for the male population.

The actual rate of offending will be higher than the rate of conviction, but even a higher rate of conviction among the clergy should (and I think almost certainly would) have been reported.

UCDVet · 01-04-2013 06:41PM

Not specific to Ireland but...

It seems the answer is probably no.

According to the best available data (which is pretty good mostly coming from a comprehensive report by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in 2004 as well as several other studies), 4% of Catholic priests in the USA sexually victimized minors during the past half century. No evidence has been published at this time that states that this number is higher than clergy from other religious traditions. The 4% figure appears lower than school teachers during the same time frame and certainly less than offenders in the general population of men. Research states that over 20% of American women and about 15% of American men were sexually violated when they were children by an adult. Sexual victimization is tragically fairly common in the general population but luckily these numbers have been dropping in recent years.

Czarcasm · 01-04-2013 07:31PM

They were pedophiles OP before they were ever priests, the same as any pedophile who tries to get themselves in a position of authority over children, so they can indulge their predilictions with little risk or fear of recrimination.

The only reason it seems there are "so many" pedophiles in the catholic hierarchy is partly because of their own incompetence, and partly because the salacious details make for great media fodder for the lynch mob mentality.

Does being a Catholic priest in Ireland, make you more likely to be a paedophile?

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