Body snark and the word tr*nny

During nights lying in bed tormenting myself, I have often wondered about the whole "passing" thing, and a lot of trans physicality. First off, I would take full "female" biology in a heartbeat, even periods (that's for you Ms. Greer.) with that being impossible I've been trying to reconcile what's an attainable female physicality and what's simply me being greedy. I am quite a hefty person, my belly is very much extant and protrusionary. When I fantasized those fantasies of waking up fully female I'd wake up thin, with typically feminine features and with a lack of beer belly: no one would ever have cause to call me a "tranny." Thinking about it though, I've never felt on a physical level that my face or belly was wrong, while I definitely have both a physical and mental sensation that I should have proper boobs and proper bits.

So having broken down my body dysmorphia I began to wonder where does my desire for a different face and a different belly begin. It doesn't feel wrong, I only experience its wrongness when I place myself as I am in society. I imagine my belly to be wrong when I picture myself about town, I don't want to be a fat woman but it doesn't feel like a trans issue, rather a personal pride issue. When I look at my face in the mirror it's a more varied experience, but it takes a level of processing to recognise my discomfort. I'm picturing myself not being accepted as female because of my face.

What I'm trying to get at is what I would change about myself and if it would be for the "correct" reasons. My non-boobs and awkward-bits would be changed because they don't experience the world as I know they should. However if society was willing to accept my non-typically female face I don't think I would change anything about it (apart from my facial hair which just feels silly despite my circus friend insisting I'd make a killing as a bearded lady.) If my face didn't out me as someone idiots want to yell abuse at, or on another level if I was accepted as female no matter my face, I'd probably come to quite like it (even so much as giving myself the occasional wink and finger gun in the mirror.) My belly I'd like to get rid of because it's unhealthy and wobbly and not-nice for me: I took no joy or pride in my appearance as a man, I want to as a woman.

Now a sort-of question and hypothetical which I think is where the first blogger was partly coming from. There's a lot of talk about how women should be proud of their own body. About having pride in yourself and not letting other people dictate how you feel about your own body. When people talk getting slimmer, or curvier, or even a nose job how much of that is knowing intrinsically there is something wrong with your body, knowing that if it mattered to absolutely no-one else in the world, if it was entirely immaterial to everyone would you still have a problem with it yourself? If you didn't have people insulting you, if you had no problem in finding partners who were attracted to you, if you had no problem with looking good in the clothes you want to wear, would you still care about your appearance and physicality?

And I think this all boils down to tolerance. If someone is intolerant of and insulting about how you look, the vast majority of people would internalise that, feel upset, and maybe even come to dislike themselves because of it. If people were tolerant, caring and loving of how you look, would you care yourself?

Azure_sky wrote: »

Have you heard of terms such as bi-gender and androgyne?
Labels suck. But ultimately we do need them to denote reality or else we wouldn't know what the hell we're even referring to.:)

Yeah, there's loads of terms floating around. I think we're just starting to see what the realities of gender, gender expression and simple human expression are. The fact is that there's a huge continuum between "both genders" and their expressions, and "both sexes" which I'm not sure if there is any associated expression rather than necessities. And using any one specific term for something falling somewhere in that continuum will be sure to misrepresent someone else. In a way I was just being a bit idealistic in my wishes. Men and women and all else are people first and foremost, to treat someone another way or to call someone something other than "a person" there needs to be a reason that "person" isn't sufficient.

To use an example from Andrew O'Neills stand up: he was looking confused in a shopping centre and a security guard said to him, "The men's is that way if you're looking... And eh... The lady's is that way." Which brings me back to the original article. While the security guard was just a bit confused he was unintentionally really quite nice. He didn't know which toilet would be appropriate for the comedian so he provided both options in an effort not to offend by miscategorising. I'm sure if he then said, "I'll use the ladies" the security guard would have said, "Sure thing, Ms." and been on his way, and "Sure thing, Sir" if he said he'd use the men's. And that's what the body article and the "Tranny" article is about. If someone indicates they're male, or they're female that should be the end of the matter unless further clarification is needed for some really valid reason. The cis writer gave every indication she was female, so to call her a "Tranny" is just plain ignorance and bigotry, her appearance has no bearing on her gender. No matter how she looks she is no more or less a woman. Even if she was a transgender woman there's no need to bring the matter up unless you're her urologist. (Not that people who call others "Trannies" are doing anything other than broadcasting slurs and ignorance.)

baby and crumble wrote: »

Actually, there is a wide spectrum of folks within the butch spectrum who would prefer feminine pronouns, male pronouns or indeed gender neutral pronouns. I myself identify as butch, I guess, but I will always (I think!) see myself as a woman. I love being a woman, but I feel more "masculine of centre" I guess than other women. Hence butch. And for me, anyway, that side of me isn't about clothes or outward presentation, it encompasses most things about me. Actually, probably more than my sexuality as a lesbian does.

Huh. That's the first time I thought of that. Hmm.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say there was only one way to be something. It was my understanding that being butch was always a woman's thing including the use of female pronouns, I stand corrected. (I don't think I've used any pronouns other than He, She and They for someone except online.) I think my point does gel (roughly) with what you're saying. In that you see yourself as a woman, just a woman who tends towards aspects of masculinity, but still very much a woman. I was trying to compare that with some of the male "transvestites" I've encountered. Transvestitism typically is associated with crossdressing, but that doesn't seem to represent many men who are called transvestites. In that they're not interested in just clothing, but in representing their feminine aspects but still remaining firmly in the "male" category. And I'm guessing but I'd be fairly certain you really wouldn't like to be called a "female transvestite" or that you "merely" have a fetish about clothes. Which I think is what these men are getting at, there's no real term for a male equivalent of butch.* You could try forcing the use of the word "camp" but I don't think that has much to do with an actual representation of femininity or femaleness.

And as for the 'aren't men better' thing- I'm sure that was a joke, but it is something that people assume is the reasoning behind butch women acting and presenting the way they do. I have no desire to be a man. I have no desire to 'pass' as a man, to bind, or anything like that. Obviously for some, butch is a step on the road to transitioning, and that's cool. But me expressing this side of me is making me more comfortable than I ever thought possible, and isn't that a good thing?

I'll tentatively say I understand that, as much as I can understand anything that I haven't experienced for myself. I don't have any presumption that a butch woman is trying to be like a man because being a man is better. I don't even think that a butch woman is trying to be like a man, but is simply accepting and representing what they know is the masculine aspect of themselves, again while still being fully a woman. And Andrew O'Neill would agree with you on binding from his perspective. He doesn't use fake boobs because he doesn't want to have boobs and doesn't want to impersonate a woman, his dressing is part of an expression of his femininity as a man. Where with expression I'm not simply referring to clothes but to the totality of his being. And all of this is being said purely based on reading his blog and watching his stand up performances on Youtube, so I do hope I'm not misrepresenting him.


*Conversely to the ill-informed idea of butch women wanting to impersonate their "betters": men, I think it's an equal and possibly more dangerous aspect of gender inequality and intolerance in the perspective of male on male violence that questions why a man would want to have a female aspect to himself. And it shows an intolerance of femininity by even posing the question of why a man would want to have a feminine aspect to himself.

I wonder where this shopping centre was... I have been experiencing a lot of mis-gendering recently, since outwardly altering my presentation to reflect my butchness. Doubletakes, being called 'Sir'... I wrote a blog post, actually. (SHAMELESS PLUG!!!)

I'm presenting as male at the moment, I'm still not confident enough to look typically as my gender in public (although a friend made me try on a dress of hers that she whinged looked better on me than her. ) So I was going to the male bathrooms at a rugby match over the weekend, with the naturally huge queue as is to be expected at half time. As I pushed through the press of people to get out the door someone said, "Woah! I totally thought that was a girl!" I had a brief irrational moment of fear that someone was going to say something then walked away quite happily smiling to myself. It's pretty amazing how much power things like pronouns and gendering has even when uttered by strangers. And almost definitely a power I need to divest from people if I'm to not be constantly upset as I transition.



This is Andrew O'Neill site by the way. http://www.andrewoneill.co.uk/ I'm definitely going through a stupid fan girl stage with him for the time being.



Edit: And please do excuse and point out if I'm being stupid anywhere. I'm relatively new in any understanding of lesbian or butch culture, and a lot of my posts are me trying to come to terms with and progress my ideas of femaleness and gender.

baby and crumble wrote: »

Yeah, you're right, but then words and terms for anything can be so limiting. I mean, there are so many negative connotation to the term 'butch' or 'camp' that it's hard to embrace them and make them yours, you know?

I think, to relate back to the OP, the idea of there being 'one way' to be a 'real' woman is insulting, just like there is only one way to be a 'real' man. I mean, what does that even mean?

That's what I've been trying to highlight with my posts, which goes right back to the facebooker calling the lingerie blogger a "tranny." Why would anyone need to categorise someone as that? My immediate assumption would be that she's a woman first and foremost from the way she's presented herself. If I get such an assumption wrong then I'd hope someone would appreciate that I made a genuine attempt to be understanding in my language and would simply correct myself from then on. It's not for me to put definitions on anyone other than myself. And it seems the simplest descriptor is the best. Whether a woman is cis, trans, butch, femme, muscular, curvy, or whatever she's still in all ways and in no lesser way a woman. (unless they don't want to be.)