Mother of Mark Quinsey dies

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 01:07AM

catallus wrote: »

If you have to ask then you don't need to know.

I can't help but feel all this ambiguity is simply masking bullshit.

darced · 24-03-2013 01:08AM

This post has been deleted.

catallus · 24-03-2013 01:08AM

He's not being ambiguous, he's obviously trolling and you are trying to get him to say more outrageous stuff, for whatever reason i can't begin to guess

hare · 24-03-2013 01:09AM

Trotter wrote: »

People talk about Afghanistan like the locals doing the shooting aren't the ones blowing up schools that allow girls to attend and aren't the ones executing rape victims for bringing 'shame' to their families and aren't the ones pumping Western Europe with heroin.[/QUOTwhats that got to do with the brits.they have been in every country round the globe slaughtering people .

gurramok · 24-03-2013 01:16AM

Any soldier of the major aggressive nations(UK, USA, perhaps France) in the modern era know what they signed up for, they will be deployed in areas where they maybe a target in any place of the world which is hostile to them. It just so happens in this case it was not expected in the BA's eyes as NI was supposed to be at peace. There are lots of alternative career paths for young people, the army should be the last resort.

darced · 24-03-2013 01:16AM

This post has been deleted.

hare · 24-03-2013 01:22AM

gurramok wrote: »

Any soldier of the major aggressive nations(UK, USA, perhaps France) in the modern era know what they signed up for, they will be deployed in areas where they maybe a target in any place of the world which is hostile to them. It just so happens in this case it was not expected in the BA's eyes as NI was supposed to be at peace. There are lots of alternative career paths for young people, the army should be the last resort.

seen 1 of their career posters yrs ago.join the army and see the world.some header had sprayed below.aye the next world.

Sound of Silence · 24-03-2013 01:28AM

My deepest sympathies rest with the Quinsey Family.

Although I wouldn't advise anyone hold their breath in awaiting a similar display of concern and reverence for the victims of British Forces in Northern Ireland. Those concerns should be "consigned to the dustbin" as they've argued in the past.

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 01:30AM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think your definition of "indirect" is a bit loose. Simply wearing a uniform does not make you responsible for the actions of others, directly or otherwise.

A Garda in Dublin is not "indirectly" responsible for police brutality in Limerick.

Fromthetrees · 24-03-2013 01:35AM

Seachmall wrote: »

I think your definition of "indirect" is a bit loose. Simply wearing a uniform does not make you responsible for the actions of others, directly or otherwise.

A Garda in Dublin is not "indirectly" responsible for police brutality in Limerick.

The Brits have been in two wars over the past decade. You know that if you join the BA there is a big chance you'll see combat.

By joining the BA you are agreeing to be a murderer.

catallus · 24-03-2013 01:38AM

Fromthetrees wrote: »

The Brits have been in two wars over the past decade. You know that if you join the BA there is a big chance you'll see combat.

By joining the BA you are agreeing to be a murderer.

Being a soldier who kills is quite different from being a murderer.

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 01:38AM

Fromthetrees wrote: »

The Brits have been in two wars over the past decade. You know that if you join the BA there is a big chance you'll see combat.

By joining the BA you are agreeing to be a murderer.

That's quite a comment but it does nothing to address the post you quoted.

gurramok · 24-03-2013 01:42AM

Sound of Silence wrote: »

My deepest sympathies rest with the Quinsey Family.

Although I wouldn't advise anyone hold their breath in awaiting a similar display of concern and reverence for the victims of British Forces in Northern Ireland. Those concerns should be "consigned to the dustbin" as they've argued in the past.

That is some propaganda piece there, you'd swear it was written by a BNP activist.

Yitzhak Rabin · 24-03-2013 01:46AM

gurramok wrote: »

Any soldier of the major aggressive nations(UK, USA, perhaps France) in the modern era know what they signed up for, they will be deployed in areas where they maybe a target in any place of the world which is hostile to them. It just so happens in this case it was not expected in the BA's eyes as NI was supposed to be at peace. There are lots of alternative career paths for young people, the army should be the last resort.

Would you also argue that if you attended a civil rights rally in the 70s you had to expect a rubber bullet to the head. They knew the risks. Could have chosen a different path, right?

Fromthetrees · 24-03-2013 01:48AM

catallus wrote: »

Being a soldier who kills is quite different from being a murderer.

Well that depends really doesn't it. Joining an advanced military power that's bombing countries into the stone age doesn't strike me as particularly noble or heroic.

humbert · 24-03-2013 01:49AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Would you also argue that if you attended a civil rights rally in the 70s you had to expect a rubber bullet to the head. They knew the risks. Could have chosen a different path, right?

Specious comparison.

Yitzhak Rabin · 24-03-2013 01:51AM

humbert wrote: »

Specious comparison.

How so, both are victim-blaming statements. To say you have to expect to get shot while collecting a pizza if you join the BA is ridiculous.

Fromthetrees · 24-03-2013 01:52AM

Seachmall wrote: »

That's quite a comment but it does nothing to address the post you quoted.

You made a comparison between a Garda in a uniform and a BA soldier in a uniform.

They're not comparable to me.

token101 · 24-03-2013 01:53AM

Praetorian Saighdiuir wrote: »

Well, there's a few rules.

Broken when it suits though.

catallus · 24-03-2013 01:53AM

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Well that depends really doesn't it. Joining an advanced military power that's bombing countries into the stone age doesn't strike me as particularly noble or heroic.

Well, yeah, it does depend really.

It doesn't justify you saying you're a murderer the second you enlist.

I have no doubt a lot of them signed up with the actual aim of killing someone.

But it doesn't mean all of them are killers.

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 01:54AM

Fromthetrees wrote: »

You made a comparison between a Garda in a uniform and a BA soldier in a uniform.

No I didn't.

I made a point that one should not be held responsible for the actions of others simply because they have the same employer.

humbert · 24-03-2013 01:58AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

How so, both are victim-blaming statements. To say you have to expect to get shot while collecting a pizza if you join the BA is ridiculous.

By joining the army you agree to put yourself in the line of fire for reasons that you have no control over. Hostilities don't stop when you clock out.

This is not comparable to someone engaged in a non-violent protest over something they believe in just because they both involve risk.

It is the understanding and agreement to use violence that separates them.

Fromthetrees · 24-03-2013 01:59AM

catallus wrote: »

Well, yeah, it does depend really.

It doesn't justify you saying you're a murderer the second you enlist.

I have no doubt a lot of them signed up with the actual aim of killing someone.

But it doesn't mean all of them are killers.

It means they're agreeing to be killers. The same way if you join the RIRA you're agreeing to be a killer.

The world would be a better place without these types of scummy people around.

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 01:59AM

humbert wrote: »

By joining the army you agree to put yourself in the line of fire for reasons that you have no control over. Hostilities don't stop when you clock out.

A member of the Garda ERU gets shot collecting a take-away.

Is it acceptable to be outraged or should we just accept it was a career choice he made?

gurramok · 24-03-2013 02:00AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Would you also argue that if you attended a civil rights rally in the 70s you had to expect a rubber bullet to the head. They knew the risks. Could have chosen a different path, right?

What? Civil rights protesters should not get shot by an army who are suppose to respect the law of a sovereign state, they should not shoot their citizens. They are supposed to shoot at other soldiers.

A soldier is armed and trained to be armed, they expect danger when on patrol in a hostile environment. Seriously you sound by a TUV advocate.

catallus · 24-03-2013 02:01AM

Seachmall wrote: »

A member of the Garda ERU gets shot collecting a take-away.

Is it acceptable to be outraged or should we just accept it was a career choice he made?

What is with you trying to mix-up a foreign army with a police force? What's your point?

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 02:05AM

catallus wrote: »

What is with you trying to mix-up a foreign army with a police force? What's your point?

I'm not mixing up or comparing the British Army with the Gardaí, I'm comparing comparable situations.

It's the context you should be looking at, not the titles.

Let me simplify it,

Person A chooses a career where he knowingly puts himself in danger and knows he may have to kill.
Person A gets shot while off duty.

Why is this acceptable if Person A is a British soldier, but not when he is a Garda? Or is it acceptable in both situations?

catallus · 24-03-2013 02:08AM

You're completely oversimplifying the situation.

The situations are not comparable.

If you're looking for someone to say killing anyone in uniform, on duty or not, is "acceptable" then I'm questioning your motives: Why exactly are you asking?

Seachmall · 24-03-2013 02:11AM

catallus wrote: »

You're completely oversimplifying the situation.

No, I'm using the criteria and justifications presented in the original comment being addressed.

If you're looking for someone to say killing anyone in uniform, on duty or not, is "acceptable" then I'm questioning your motives: Why exactly are you asking?

The expose the hypocrisy and fallacious special pleading permeating this thread.

It's my job. I'm the Internet Police.

Chuck Stone · 24-03-2013 02:11AM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Would you also argue that if you attended a civil rights rally in the 70s you had to expect a rubber bullet to the head. They knew the risks. Could have chosen a different path, right?

Ah yes because the seeking of equality by attending a protest is the same as signing up to an army and being trained to kill.

A Captain Picard facepalm award goes to you.

Mother of Mark Quinsey dies

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