DRINK DRIVING

rubadub · 22-03-2013 02:10PM

Kesha wrote: »

While I feel the same, I also wonder:
Would you mind if I called you "useless ****" as well?

If I did something as stupid I would fully deserve it.

Kesha wrote: »

does a moderator outrank a garda on this forum?

Not sure what you are getting at, and don't see what his profession has to do with anything. If I was to pedantically enforce every rule to the letter in the forums I moderate I would be banning people all day long, and would hopefully be removed. You use common sense and discretion, just like most gardai do. I know what the rules were supposed to prevent, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what they were introduced for, and the fact that not all actions need full action upon, if even a warning.

In this case the garda was allegedly not even just pedantically enforcing laws, he made up his own law.

I know several garda and I am certain they would all be disgusted upon hearing this story. In fact in many other threads I am usually praising the gardai since most I have seen or had dealings with are not pedantic little hitlers. But I have seen several other threads where the gardai have made up laws on the spot in similar ways. Its disgraceful when you think this could be ruinous to peoples lives/livelihoods.

Perhaps this garda was told later in the station or figured out there was no such law, and rather than admit he was wrong is putting the OP through the ringer for no good reason. Wasting, his, the OP, the judge's time & the taxpayers money.

Kesha wrote: »

As it turns out I can't even post C U N T! But YOU can
Interesting...

Anyone can do this, nothing to do with being a moderator, just a trick.

ratracer wrote: »

I am quite capable of reading and have read this thread, because I have a different take opinion of it than doesn't need the sarcastic reply.

Didn't mean to be sarcastic, I genuinely wondered if you did read it now, some read the first post and just respond. So you are basically saying the OP and/or the garda is lying, which is fair enough.

frank reynolds · 22-03-2013 02:14PM

there was no barman to drive you home was there OP?

Kesha · 22-03-2013 02:26PM

rubadub wrote: »

If I did something as stupid I would fully deserve it.

"Deserving" is a matter of personal opinion. One could argue that you deserve to be called whatever you called him.

rubadub wrote: »

Not sure what you are getting at, and don't see what his profession has to do with anything.

I only was only wondering why you have more liberties than I. Garda to moderator comparison was rather rhetorical.

rubadub wrote: »

You use common sense and discretion, just like most gardai do. I know what the rules were supposed to prevent, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what they were introduced for, and the fact that not all actions need full action upon, if even a warning.

In this case the garda was allegedly not even just pedantically enforcing laws, he made up his own law.

I know several garda and I am certain they would all be disgusted upon hearing this story. In fact in many other threads I am usually praising the gardai since most I have seen or had dealings with are not pedantic little hitlers. But I have seen several other threads where the gardai have made up laws on the spot in similar ways. Its disgraceful when you think this could be ruinous to peoples lives/livelihoods.

Perhaps this garda was told later in the station or figured out there was no such law, and rather than admit he was wrong is putting the OP through the ringer for no good reason. Wasting, his, the OP, the judge's time & the taxpayers money.

No need for that really.
I said "I feel the same".
Don't try and make me look like a useless kant now!

rubadub wrote: »

Anyone can do this, nothing to do with being a moderator, just a trick.

Teach me!

Potential-Monke · 22-03-2013 02:40PM

Ok, first off, there is a specific law in relation to Drunk in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle. Which, the OP was. He was sitting in a running car, in the drivers seat. You can make all the excuses you want, but that is proof enough he was in contravention of that specific law.

Regardless of what the Garda said, the OP is still in contravention of the law. I highly doubt the Garda said that they didn't think the the OP was going to drive, but yet arrested and went through the whole procedure anyway. That just doesn't add up. If the Garda was of that opinion, they wouldn't have gone through the process, as it would fall flat in court if the Garda was not of the opinion that the OP was going to drive. It's one of the proofs. So i'm reluctant to believe the story.

Finally, the new drink driving limits introduced in 2011. The levels are:

(a) Not exceeding 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood
(b) Not exceeding 107mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine
(c) Not exceeding 35mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath
€200 & 3 penalty points

(a) Exceeding 80mg but not exceeding 100mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood
(b) Exceeding 107mg but not exceeding 135mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine
(c) Exceeding 35mcg but not exceeding 44mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath
€400 fine & 6 months disqualification

(a) Not exceeding 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood
(b) Not exceeding 107mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine
(c) Not exceeding 35mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath
€200 & 3 months disqualification

Anything outside the remit of the above, it's a court appearance and the convictions are described here.

Note: Experienced drivers are drivers with a full licence, no previous for drink driving, and not a driver of a public service vehicle.

blue note · 22-03-2013 02:49PM

A friend of mine went out one night and slept in the car for the night. Not realising that he was deemed "in control of a vehicle" by being in the drivers seat, he slept there. A Garda woke him up and charged him. He was banned for a year.

Now, I understand that he was technically in the wrong. However, he made the decision not to drive and slept in the car instead and was punished (quite severely). I don't understand why a guard wouldn't use common sense and just ignore someone like that or just tell them they can't be in the drivers seat.

Ormus · 22-03-2013 02:49PM

I think you're wrong, the Garda has a role in establishing intention to drive.

If there is no intention to drive, then he was not in charge of the vehicle for legal purposes.

I'm not sure I believe the OP's story either though.

Potential-Monke · 22-03-2013 02:58PM

blue note wrote: »

A friend of mine went out one night and slept in the car for the night. Not realising that he was deemed "in control of a vehicle" by being in the drivers seat, he slept there. A Garda woke him up and charged him. He was banned for a year.

Now, I understand that he was technically in the wrong. However, he made the decision not to drive and slept in the car instead and was punished (quite severely). I don't understand why a guard wouldn't use common sense and just ignore someone like that or just tell them they can't be in the drivers seat.

There is a very good counter-argument to that: A lot of people who decide to sleep in the car will wake at some early hour, and feel they're fine to drive home. Prevention is better than cure.

Frank Black · 22-03-2013 03:13PM

The wording of the law is quite clear - the offence is "driving or attempting to drive" while over the legal limit and in a public place.

Sitting in the drivers seat with the engine running would easily fall under the "attempting to drive" element of the Road Traffic Act.
Nothing to do with whether it was the OP's or barman's car.

If it did go to Court you'll have a difficult job convincing the Judge I'd imagine.

blue note · 22-03-2013 03:35PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

There is a very good counter-argument to that: A lot of people who decide to sleep in the car will wake at some early hour, and feel they're fine to drive home. Prevention is better than cure.

I had thought of that alright. The fact is though, that he didn't drive a car when drunk. I don't think you should punish someone because they might choose to later. If he'd slept in the passenger seat he'd have been fine and someone in the passenger seat could just as easily choose to drive home at some early hour.

Ormus · 22-03-2013 03:52PM

black francis wrote: »

The wording of the law is quite clear - the offence is "driving or attempting to drive" while over the legal limit and in a public place.

Sitting in the drivers seat with the engine running would easily fall under the "attempting to drive" element of the Road Traffic Act.
Nothing to do with whether it was the OP's or barman's car.

If it did go to Court you'll have a difficult job convincing the Judge I'd imagine.

I think if you had a Garda in court testifying that he had observed you for several minutes and believed you had no intention of driving the car, you would have an outstanding chance.

SB2013 · 22-03-2013 03:54PM

blue note wrote: »

I had thought of that alright. The fact is though, that he didn't drive a car when drunk. I don't think you should punish someone because they might choose to later. If he'd slept in the passenger seat he'd have been fine and someone in the passenger seat could just as easily choose to drive home at some early hour.

The law is for the protection of other people on the road. You might think it's unfair to punish something for what they intended to do. I think it's unfair on their victims to allow them to do it.

And if he had been in the passenger seat he may also have been arrested. He'd just have more to defend himself in court.

The Garda did his job. It's gas that there are so many here saying that the Garda should have let him off. i bet these are the same people who gave out about penalty points being cancelled saying Gardaí shouldn't take the place of judges.

Cabaal · 22-03-2013 04:02PM

Op was in a car behind the wheel with the car switched on, doesn't matter if they were moving or not they can still be done if over the limit.

Story sounds very iffy and I doubt any judge would believe that OP wasn't planning on driving

Frank Black · 22-03-2013 04:05PM

Ormus wrote: »

I think if you had a Garda in court testifying that he had observed you for several minutes and believed you had no intention of driving the car, you would have an outstanding chance.

Why would you have a Garda in Court saying that?
You're basically outlining a scenario where the Gardai would decide to prosecute a drink driving case against the OP and then give evidence that they didn't think there was any case to answer.
Hardly likely.

BRAIN FEEDs · 22-03-2013 04:28PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Ok, first off, there is a specific law in relation to Drunk in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle. Which, the OP was. He was sitting in a running car, in the drivers seat. You can make all the excuses you want, but that is proof enough he was in contravention of that specific law.

Regardless of what the Garda said, the OP is still in contravention of the law. I highly doubt the Garda said that they didn't think the the OP was going to drive, but yet arrested and went through the whole procedure anyway. That just doesn't add up. If the Garda was of that opinion, they wouldn't have gone through the process, as it would fall flat in court if the Garda was not of the opinion that the OP was going to drive. It's one of the proofs. So i'm reluctant to believe the story.

Finally, the new drink driving limits introduced in 2011. The levels are:
Experienced drivers
(a) Not exceeding 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood

(b) Not exceeding 107mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine

(c) Not exceeding 35mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath
€200 & 3 penalty points

Experienced drivers
(a) Exceeding 80mg but not exceeding 100mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood

(b) Exceeding 107mg but not exceeding 135mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine

(c) Exceeding 35mcg but not exceeding 44mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath
€400 fine & 6 months disqualification

Other drivers
(a) Not exceeding 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood

(b) Not exceeding 107mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine

(c) Not exceeding 35mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath
€200 & 3 months disqualification

Anything outside the remit of the above, it's a court appearance and the convictions are described here.

Note: Experienced drivers are drivers with a full licence, no previous for drink driving, and not a driver of a public service vehicle.

one more thing to add to the above. if you do not carry your driving licence with you and you are breath tested then the lower limit of 20mg of alcohol applies...... until you produce your licence.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Lower%20drink%20drive%20limits/RSA_Drink_BAC%20Table.pdf

Ormus · 22-03-2013 04:31PM

black francis wrote: »

Why would you have a Garda in Court saying that?
You're basically outlining a scenario where the Gardai would decide to prosecute a drink driving case against the OP and then give evidence that they didn't think there was any case to answer.
Hardly likely.

Quote from the OP:

"The guard said he had observed me for 6 or 7 minutes in the car,and knew I wasn't going to drive"

If the charge was to be contested the Garda would have to be in court and would have to admit what he said.

godtabh · 22-03-2013 05:01PM

Ormus wrote: »

If the charge was to be contested the Garda would have to be in court and would have to admit what he said.

Assuming the guard actually said that

Ormus · 22-03-2013 05:23PM

godtabh wrote: »

Assuming the guard actually said that

Agreed, it sounds dodgy but I'm just going by what the OP said.

blue note · 22-03-2013 06:31PM

SB2013 wrote: »

The law is for the protection of other people on the road. You might think it's unfair to punish something for what they intended to do. I think it's unfair on their victims to allow them to do it.

And if he had been in the passenger seat he may also have been arrested. He'd just have more to defend himself in court.

The Garda did his job. It's gas that there are so many here saying that the Garda should have let him off. i bet these are the same people who gave out about penalty points being cancelled saying Gardaí shouldn't take the place of judges.

It's not punishing someone for what they intend to do - it's punishing someone for something they might decide to do later.

It just seems wrong to me to punish someone who hasn't done something wrong, doesn't intend to do something wrong, but may change their mind and decide to do something wrong later. I've gone to the pub and collected the car the next day. Should I be arrested because there's a chance I could have decided to drive home later?

Dani Pacheco · 22-03-2013 06:34PM

rum and coke wrote: »

I was sitting in the drivers seat with engine running last night trying to get warm.I was waiting for the barman to lock up and he was giving me a lift home.
I was stopped and breathalysed which I failed.I'd 4 pints of guinness.

.

Good luck convincing them of this...

FGR · 22-03-2013 06:40PM

That is an excuse heard time and time again. Because of a few chancers it stops the legitimate people from being heard when it comes to court.

Hopefully you'll just get a fine/points OP.

Burnt out · 16-06-2016 01:48PM

Wonder how this ended up. I've heard of almost the exact same story taking place beside me. The barman was in court and all.
He still got 2 years off the road. The judge thought it was unfair but he reckoned he couldn't do anything. The same judge gave out to gardai for bringing another drink driving case. Told them to cop on basically and use some discretion. Unfortunately common sense is not in most gardai mindset.

cbyrd · 16-06-2016 02:36PM

blue note wrote:

It just seems wrong to me to punish someone who hasn't done something wrong, doesn't intend to do something wrong, but may change their mind and decide to do something wrong later. I've gone to the pub and collected the car the next day. Should I be arrested because there's a chance I could have decided to drive home later?

Collecting a car the next day wouldn't put you over the limit. Not the same situation at all.
As soon as he sat into the drivers seat with or without the keys in the ignition he was in the wrong. The garda and the judge would have to take his word for it that he wasn't going to drive. If it was me I wouldn't believe him.

If he was getting a lift, trying to keep warm it would make more sense to sit in the passenger seat where he wouldn't have to get out of the car into the cold again, when the 'other driver' got to the car.
Me smells bs .. any judge worth his job would too.!

DRINK DRIVING

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