revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

squod · 21-03-2013 02:09PM

MadsL wrote: »

A tax has to offer a service

What alternatives do you have in mind to clear the €390,969 per person owed by the Irish state?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

No-one was permitted to speak out against overdevelopment (busy bodies)
No-one was permitted to predict a crash (prophets of doom, get em)
No-one was permitted to question why the Irsh state was overheavy with contruction jobs (Negative thinking)
No-one was prepared to allow the banks to fail, tiny numbers turned out to protest the bank guarantee.
No-one was prepared to demand default.
No-one was willing to reject austerity measures by mass protest and general strike.
No-one was willing see real change in Irish politics.

But by god when a property tax comes in is there some complaining! And you act suprised by being accused of having a "mé féin" attitude?

MadsL is Tommy Tiernan!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v--fTVAWE8

Cantona's Collars · 21-03-2013 02:29PM

New scaled down lists of exempt estates are out,some weird stuff in them.Many are complete & 100% occupied.
One in my town has just had over €30k spent on doing it up and is still exempt as it has 2 empty houses at the back of it out of the way.

It's as if the LA just found a list of estates which were built by developers that are now gone bust & never bothered to actually go out and check what kind of condition said estates are in,a minority should be exempt but the vast majority are complete and have full occupancy therefore can't be classed as ghost estates meanwhile others not on the list are in a worse state.

dxhound2005 · 21-03-2013 02:31PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

I didn't pay the household charge last year and I won't be paying this new tax either. No matter what way they spin this it's just another way of reaching into the pockets of the people to cough up extra funds. No matter what is said on internet forums , most people will pay it because that's what this country has become and it's why it is so easy for government to continue to attack the lower and middle class people , because we moan and moan but that's all we do and then we pay.

Look at this list of what a general homeowner has propably paid out and has in monthly charges already.

* PRSI
* UNSC (Another gem)
* Mortgage
* House insurance
* Life assurance
* Car tax
* Petrol costs (High as they are with tax)
* ESB
* Gas
* Internet
* School fee's
* TV Licence
* Water charges (Again a gem)

It seems like it won't stop until they have bled every drop of disposable income out of the pockets of the lower and middle class , and will then still stand still wondering why the economy can't improve. IT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY ****ING MONEY TO SPEND WITH YOU MORONS TAKING EVERY PENNY FROM US IN TAX!

And for anyone who said you rent your land from the state , you do not. They put it for sale , I buy it and build a house and pay them their fee and charges/stamp duty. Now I own the land and the house , that's what I paid for. Property tax my arse, what service are you offering for this tax , how does it benefit me and my family/friends/ neighbours.

That's an impressive debit list. On the credit side did you or anyone in your house ever get a few Euro from taxpayers money? You could do a list.

relax carry on · 21-03-2013 02:40PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

I didn't pay the household charge last year and I won't be paying this new tax either. No matter what way they spin this it's just another way of reaching into the pockets of the people to cough up extra funds. No matter what is said on internet forums , most people will pay it because that's what this country has become and it's why it is so easy for government to continue to attack the lower and middle class people , because we moan and moan but that's all we do and then we pay.

Look at this list of what a general homeowner has propably paid out and has in monthly charges already.

* PRSI
* UNSC (Another gem)
* Mortgage
* House insurance
* Life assurance
* Car tax
* Petrol costs (High as they are with tax)
* ESB
* Gas
* Internet
* School fee's
* TV Licence
* Water charges (Again a gem)

It seems like it won't stop until they have bled every drop of disposable income out of the pockets of the lower and middle class , and will then still stand still wondering why the economy can't improve. IT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY ****ING MONEY TO SPEND WITH YOU MORONS TAKING EVERY PENNY FROM US IN TAX!

And for anyone who said you rent your land from the state , you do not. They put it for sale , I buy it and build a house and pay them their fee and charges/stamp duty. Now I own the land and the house , that's what I paid for. Property tax my arse, what service are you offering for this tax , how does it benefit me and my family/friends/ neighbours.

It's been pointed out that its pretty difficult to avoid paying this tax as Revenue will just look to remove it from your income stream at source.
Others have suggested making up the amount deducted in the property tax by engaging those in the shadow economy or by paying UK VAT, which isn't really not paying, more offsetting into another tax due. So if you have a plan to avoid it, would you care to share? Are you going to make your house(s) disappear?

mikom · 21-03-2013 02:42PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's an impressive debit list. On the credit side did you or anyone in your house ever get a few Euro from taxpayers money? You could do a list.

Probably just a % of their own tax money they are getting back.
The rest pissed away on trips to Doha.

Irishcrx · 21-03-2013 02:48PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's an impressive debit list. On the credit side did you or anyone in your house ever get a few Euro from taxpayers money? You could do a list.

No actually I haven't but I've been paying into the system for years. That's not the point though , there are people who need state assistance I understand that , differance is they have a human element and requirement not a greedy bunch high ranking government officials who are in holding hands sessions with the banks.

Bottom line - The common man is paying for greed , abuse of power and mis management of a corrupt banking system and government.

And still they abuse that power , state owned my arse I have friends under serious pressure unable to meet payment's , where is their help coming from? Who's actually running the banks? State owned....yeah sure...

Phill Ewinn · 21-03-2013 02:58PM

relax carry on wrote: »

It's been pointed out that its pretty difficult to avoid paying this tax as Revenue will just look to remove it from your income stream at source.
Others have suggested making up the amount deducted in the property tax by engaging those in the shadow economy or by paying UK VAT, which isn't really not paying, more offsetting into another tax due. So if you have a plan to avoid it, would you care to share? Are you going to make your house(s) disappear?

Back to this again. Plenty of peoe dodge taxes. Thats the way of the world and no taxman in the history of this planet has a 100% success rate.

Some people will pay it. Some people won't. Lots and lots of people don't care enough to be bothered. Sign the forms, let them take what you want.! Threatening people only works against the weak.

MadsL · 21-03-2013 03:01PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's an impressive debit list. On the credit side did you or anyone in your house ever get a few Euro from taxpayers money? You could do a list.

You could start with mortgage interest reliéf perhaps?

Maybe those complaining about LPT and calling for everyone to be liable could tell us if they would support the same level of Govt subsidy for renters that they currently receive subsidising their mortgage?

MadsL · 21-03-2013 03:10PM

SamHall wrote: »

I'm self sufficient, and I do not depend on anyone else to feed, house nor clothe me and mine.
i

You grow your own medicines, and are a trained firefighter?

Banjo String · 21-03-2013 03:21PM

MadsL wrote: »

You could start with mortgage interest reliéf perhaps?

Maybe those complaining about LPT and calling for everyone to be liable could tell us if they would support the same level of Govt subsidy for renters that they currently receive subsidising their mortgage?

Did you receive mortgage interest relief?

ah no, you were too shrewd to buy a property in Ireland, and didn't agree with 'paying other people's debt'.

Then you say this:

What alternatives do you have in mind to clear the €390,969 per person owed by the Irish state?

I certainly don't owe that (personally)

Sad thing is, you posted that statement from a foreign land you excommunicated yourself to, leaving a daughter behind.

America must be mind numbingly boring if you have to spend a large portion of your day pontificating on an internet forum, for others to pay up a tax that doesn't affect you in any way. (And by your logic, you wouldn't have paid either even if you were in the country)

I really take you seriously, I truly do.:pac:

relax carry on · 21-03-2013 03:33PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Back to this again. Plenty of peoe dodge taxes. Thats the way of the world and no taxman in the history of this planet has a 100% success rate.

Some people will pay it. Some people won't. Lots and lots of people don't care enough to be bothered. Sign the forms, let them take what you want.! Threatening people only works against the weak.

Thing is, this isn't like non declaration of income, over claiming expenses or playing around with VAT etc where a some work can be required to get to the truth. It's a whole different ballgame. Revenue were quoted expecting over a 90% compliance rate. If an estimate exists for your property and you ignore the return then the estimate will be pursued via the methods already outlined.
It's not fear to point out the consequences of your actions. It's more to make you aware that the consequences exist.
Taxes are a pain in the arse but unfortunately a necessary pain. If you wish to get this or any other tax overturned/changed then contact those who have made the law(s) and make your case to them.

mikom · 21-03-2013 03:48PM

MadsL wrote: »

You grow your own medicines?

I don't know how it works in your new home of Murika, but the Irish state forbids medicine production without a licence.

Banjo String · 21-03-2013 03:52PM

relax carry on wrote: »

Thing is, this isn't like non declaration of income, over claiming expenses or playing around with VAT etc where a some work can be required to get to the truth. It's a whole different ballgame. Revenue were quoted expecting over a 90% compliance rate. If an estimate exists for your property and you ignore the return then the estimate will be pursued via the methods already outlined.
It's not fear to point out the consequences of your actions. It's more to make you aware that the consequences exist.
Taxes are a pain in the arse but unfortunately a necessary pain. If you wish to get this or any other tax overturned/changed then contact those who have made the law(s) and make your case to them.

Lol, good luck with that one:D

Do you know how many of revenue's staff will be dealing with the appeals? Bearing in mind an estimated 1.9 million houses are liable for the tax.....

They have just two additional staff in their Dublin office to help them – an administrator and an assistant administrator.
If even 1pc of the country's 1.6 million households end up appealing their property tax bill to them, it will leave them with 16,000 cases to handle.
The Appeals Commissioners currently deal with around 300 to 400 cases per year and have a two-month waiting list.

full article here.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/property-tax-pay-up-if-you-want-to-appeal-29138391.html

Do you work for revenue btw?

Banjo String · 21-03-2013 03:56PM

MadsL wrote: »

You grow your own medicines,

Yes I do.

MadsL wrote: »

and are a trained firefighter?

Yes I am.

MadsL · 21-03-2013 04:01PM

SamHall wrote: »

Did you receive mortgage interest relief?

ah no, you were too shrewd to buy a property in Ireland, and didn't agree with 'paying other people's debt'.

Did you object to the subsidy on your mortgage when developers were paying your property taxes in the form of A development levy. I thought not.

SamHall wrote: »

I certainly don't owe that (personally)

Who does in your opinion? If the banks, did you get out of your warm house to protest on that bitterly cold night of the bank guarantee. You probably don't remember the weather, but I do. Wonder why that is?

Sad thing is, you posted that statement from a foreign land you excommunicated yourself to, leaving a daughter behind.

I played my part to try and stop the insanity, and I'm not Catholic.

SamHall wrote: »

America must be mind numbingly boring if you have to spend a large portion of your day pontificating on an internet forum, for others to pay up a tax that doesn't affect you in any way. (And by your logic, you wouldn't have paid either even if you were in the country)

I really take you seriously, I truly do.:pac:

classic 'basement dweller' attack. Poor effort.

I see you have now distanced yourself from attackthetax.com, are you also going to distance/recant post#250 calling for tax dodging and black economy transaction. Legitimate struggling contractors will love you for that.

MadsL · 21-03-2013 04:06PM

mikom wrote: »

I don't know how it works in your new home of Murika, but the Irish state forbids medicine production without a licence.

Exactly my point, he's hardly self-sufficient, rather reliant on a range of state-provided services. For which he refuses to pay tax and advocates black economy transactions to defraud the State.

mikom · 21-03-2013 04:08PM

MadsL wrote: »

Exactly my point, he's hardly self-sufficient, rather reliant on a range of state-provided services.

Hardly a point when the proles are hamstrung by legislation.
Reliant due to state pressure.
But shur he could just leave the county if he is not happy, I hear you say........

Geuze · 21-03-2013 04:16PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

* PRSI = at 4% lower than in practically every other country

* UNSC (Another gem) = not a new tax, replaced two existing levies

* House insurance = not a tax
* Life assurance = not a tax

* Car tax - since 2008, motor tax based on CO2, so has fallen for some people.

* Petrol costs (High as they are with tax) = our fuel duty is lower than Uk or NL

* ESB - yes, I agree, elec prices are too high.

* Gas - continued protests against Corrib gas and possible fracking - people don't seem to want to develop our own gas

* Internet - yes, too expensive

* School fee's
* TV Licence
* Water charges (Again a gem) - sensible to charge for water

Note that the overall level of tax in Irl is below average.

See Eurostat here:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/product_details/publication?p_product_code=KS-SF-12-055

Geuze · 21-03-2013 04:20PM

MadsL wrote: »

What alternatives do you have in mind to clear the €390,969 per person owed by the Irish state?

Note that the General Govt debt is 170 bn approx.

4.6 m people

So about 37,000 euro public debt each.

Your figures refer to all debts, including those linked to the IFSC, but those figures are not reflective of the real economy.

dxhound2005 · 21-03-2013 07:05PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

No actually I haven't but I've been paying into the system for years. That's not the point though , there are people who need state assistance I understand that , differance is they have a human element and requirement not a greedy bunch high ranking government officials who are in holding hands sessions with the banks.

Bottom line - The common man is paying for greed , abuse of power and mis management of a corrupt banking system and government.

And still they abuse that power , state owned my arse I have friends under serious pressure unable to meet payment's , where is their help coming from? Who's actually running the banks? State owned....yeah sure...

The big list you put up on behalf of the middle class general homeowner must not be representative of your own personal situation. School fees would usually imply someone getting Child Benefit and mortage would usually attract mortgage interest relief. But your household never got either of these?

bgrizzley · 21-03-2013 07:14PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The big list you put up on behalf of the middle class general homeowner must not be representative of your own personal situation. School fees would usually imply someone getting Child Benefit and mortage would usually attract mortgage interest relief. But your household never got either of these?

dx, do you really expect someone to pay into the system and get absolutely nothing back out of it except the pleasure of saying they are Irish? this isnt a fiefdom.

Le_Dieux · 21-03-2013 07:16PM

zerks wrote: »

New scaled down lists of exempt estates are out,some weird stuff in them.Many are complete & 100% occupied.
One in my town has just had over €30k spent on doing it up and is still exempt as it has 2 empty houses at the back of it out of the way.

It's as if the LA just found a list of estates which were built by developers that are now gone bust & never bothered to actually go out and check what kind of condition said estates are in,a minority should be exempt but the vast majority are complete and have full occupancy therefore can't be classed as ghost estates meanwhile others not on the list are in a worse state.

Heard on the radio this morning, that list is skimmed by NINETY% from the list exempt under the HHC charge last year.

I live in an estate that has 2 phases - one handed over to KCC & the other, a ghost estate ( GE ) in everything but recognition by this excuse for a government. Last year we had our AGM ( Residents Association) and had the mayor of our county there , who happens to be a FG'er, specifically to answer questions asd to why ph2 wasn't on the GE list. His retort, pay up this year and we'll have it reviewed next year ( 2013). Now? Still not on the list, yet our kip building site is surrounded by a fence which is flattened. That fence was 'stopping' people going onto a site which has concrete laid foundations. The fire brigade were in the estate 3 times in a month recently to extinguish fires that gurriers had started by setting fire to portocabins the builder used to occupy, before he fú**ed off down under. We have 5 houses built, 4 of which have never been occupied. Now, the bastard gurriers have smashed all the windows. We have had sewerage problems, and of course unfinished roads. This in an estate where houses fetched up to €400k 4 years ago.

And they expect us to pay a property tax?? NFW! (No F*****g Way).

Now, MadsL et al, see where the militancy is coming from?

dxhound2005 · 21-03-2013 07:18PM

bgrizzley wrote: »

dx, do you really expect someone to pay into the system and get absolutely nothing back out of it except the pleasure of saying they are Irish? this isnt a fiefdom.

Irishcrx is probably an exception in never having got anything back. It is quite possible that many opponents of property tax are net gainers from the system.

tayto lover · 21-03-2013 07:33PM

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

dxhound2005 · 21-03-2013 07:41PM

tayto lover wrote: »

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

What sort of trouble?

tayto lover · 21-03-2013 07:43PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What sort of trouble?

Protesting at T.D.'s offices etc.
Do you deny they were tricked into registering?

Le_Dieux · 21-03-2013 07:44PM

tayto lover wrote: »

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

Hi Tayto

Good to be able to talk to You again:)

I'm not going to talk about any other estate. Only OURS...and houses that were once worth €400K are now worth €150-190k. The site is a shambles. It is now becoming a dumping ground for undesirables.

We were fed a complete load of BS last year by cllrs & td's ( ALL I might add from FG ).

TBH, they don't give 2 fcuks about us...until there is an election in the offing. Memories can be short, but there is such rebellion within the estate ( we are actually having this years AGM tomorrow night - THAT SHOULD be interesting) these guys have NO chance of getting re-elected. Only galling thing is that they will still be entitled to their PENSION...yet ANOTHER sick trait in our society.

And then we have people from the Nevada desert telling us to pay??? They ARE entitled to their opinion, but please don't let them come along and tell us what WE must do. I know what I am doing, and won't pay. They may try and take it from income, but can see serious court battles down the road on this count also.

Yet, the bould EK was in Washington this week blowing his trumpet saying the economy has turned? What part of 'people don't have money' doesn't he understand? And then they wonder why car sales have dropped off so allarmingly this year?

Herr Kenny....PEOPLE ARE SCARED!!!

I know I am!

tayto lover · 21-03-2013 07:48PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Hi Tayto

Good to be able to talk to You again:)

I'm not going to talk about any other estate. Only OURS...and houses that were once worth €400K are now worth €150-190k. The site is a shambles. It is now becoming a dumping ground for undesirables.

We were fed a complete load of BS last year by cllrs & td's ( ALL I might add from FG ).

TBH, they don't give 2 fcuks about us...until there is an election in the offing. Memories can be short, but there is such rebellion within the estate ( we are actually having this years AGM tomorrow night - THAT SHOULD be interesting) these guys have NO chance of getting re-elected.

And then we have people from the Nevada desert telling us to pay??? They ARE entitled to their opinion, but please don't let them come along and tell us what WE must do. I know what I am doing, and won't pay. They may try and take it from income, but can see serious court battles down the road on this count also.

Yet, the bould EK was in Washington this week blowing his trumpet saying the economy has turned? What part of 'people don't have money' doesn't he understand? And then they wonder why car sales have dropped off so allarmingly this year?

Herr Kenny....PEOPLE ARE SCARED!!!

I know I am!

Yes they have taken so much out of the economy now that it will lead to even more job losses.
They also plan to take another 3.5 billion in the next budget. So much less for people to spend in their local businesses and so few jobs being created.
They just don't see the problems people are encountering from their comfortable ivory towers. Yet their people on here are so prepared to stand up for them, it's amazing.

Hope things improve for you. There are many like you.

mikom · 21-03-2013 07:49PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What sort of trouble?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3idfuXQCq7A

Le_Dieux · 21-03-2013 07:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes they have taken so much out of the economy now that it will lead to even more job losses.
They also plan to take another 3.5 billion in the next budget. So much less for people to spend in their local businesses and so few jobs being created.
They just don't see the problems people are encountering from their comfortable ivory towers. Yet their people on here are so prepared to stand up for them, it's amazing.

Hope things improve for you. There are many like you.

Thanks Tayto. We are aware we are not unique, and the thing ( for me ) is that we must stand together, and fight this corrupt wasteful society. OMG if My Mom was alive today She would think I flipped ( I was a hippy in another life:D )

Another thing I heard today...Mick Noonan CHAIRED that meeting which decided to take that % from savings in the Cyrpiot banking system.

I heard Coveny today 'categorically' state it will NEVER happen here. But I don't trust these bunch of ( call them what You like). They have NO idea how tough it is out here - NONE!

revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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