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The Iraq War...

135

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/308-12/16561-focus-cheneys-halliburton-made-395-billion-on-iraq-war

    he accounting of the financial cost of the nearly decade-long Iraq War will go on for years, but a recent analysis has shed light on the companies that made money off the war by providing support services as the privatization of what were former U.S. military operations rose to unprecedented levels.

    Private or publicly listed firms received at least $138 billion of U.S. taxpayer money for government contracts for services that included providing private security, building infrastructure and feeding the troops.

    Ten contractors received 52 percent of the funds, according to an analysis by the Financial Times that was published Tuesday.

    The No. 1 recipient?

    Houston-based energy-focused engineering and construction firm KBR, Inc. (NYSE:KBR), which was spun off from its parent, oilfield services provider Halliburton Co. (NYSE:HAL), in 2007.

    The company was given $39.5 billion in Iraq-related contracts over the past decade, with many of the deals given without any bidding from competing firms, such as a $568-million contract renewal in 2010 to provide housing, meals, water and bathroom services to soldiers, a deal that led to a Justice Department lawsuit over alleged kickbacks, as reported by Bloomberg.

    Who were Nos. 2 and 3?

    Agility Logistics (KSE:AGLTY) of Kuwait and the state-owned Kuwait Petroleum Corp. Together, these firms garnered $13.5 billion of U.S. contracts.

    As private enterprise entered the war zone at unprecedented levels, the amount of corruption ballooned, even if most contractors performed their duties as expected.

    According to the bipartisan Commission on Wartime Contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the level of corruption by defense contractors may be as high as $60 billion. Disciplined soldiers that would traditionally do many of the tasks are commissioned by private and publicly listed companies.

    Even without the graft, the costs of paying for these services are higher than paying governement employees or soldiers to do them because of the profit motive involved. No-bid contracting - when companies get to name their price with no competing bid - didn't lower legitimate expenses. (Despite promises by President Barack Obama to reel in this habit, the trend toward granting favored companies federal contracts without considering competing bids continued to grow, by 9 percent last year, according to the Washington Post.)

    Even though the military has largely pulled out of Iraq, private contractors remain on the ground and continue to reap U.S. government contracts. For example, the U.S. State Department estimates that taxpayers will dole out $3 billion to private guards for the government's sprawling embassy in Baghdad.

    The costs of paying private and publicly listed war profiteers seem miniscule in light of the total bill for the war.

    Last week, the Costs of War Project by the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University said the war in Iraq cost $1.7 trillion dollars, not including the $490 billion in immediate benefits owed to veterans of the war and the lifetime benefits that will be owed to them or their next of kin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Disturbing, shameful, this is what happens when right wing (libertarians and neo cons) nuts get their finger on the trigger......

    I've never heard of a libertarian supporting a war, but sure go on.



    You really have to wonder at the complete shambles of a plan for post invasion? What the hell were they thinking. Wow ten years, must rewatch Generation Kill - invading Iraq while singing Skater Boy :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    moon_man wrote: »
    no chance , if obama even supported such a move

    Just as much argument for him to be in there with them tbh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    crockholm wrote: »
    I supported it at the time.



    I think I have been proven wrong.




    I no longer care about the Arab world,whether they have dictators or not, just steer a wide berth,no intervention anywhere there,let them sort their own problems themselves.Screw this whole white mans burden crap.
    couldnt agree more with this. Let them rot. I thought it was an honorable thing to get rid of a dictator but you know what...sod it. It's just not worth any soldiers life to go to one of these countries and end up watching the 'allahu akbars' running around like crazed lunatics looking for their 72 virgins or whatever. They are the lowest form of human being....not worth a bullet

    mod: banned


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭somefeen


    Well in my opinion; At the moment, oil is worth it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    My opinion is based on information sourced via multiple documentaries, news outlets and a guy I know who was in Iraq for the Gulf War. You get smug about a differing opinion to yours (even though I think the war was a horrible event also) even though you don't know the facts any better than I. Why are your sources more reliable.

    I know a few guys who were there. None of them saw anything like WMD. But they were just regular GI's. Who was your source?

    can you supply links to the documentaries and news sources? I'm basing my information on the fact that nothing was found. The only thing found AFAIK was some peroxide. The stuff that's used in cleaning and hair colouring. Which isn't illegal and would be found in any country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Don't know if it has been mentioned but there's a programme on BBC 2 currently on the war's legacy in Basra.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    couldnt agree more with this. Let them rot. I thought it was an honorable thing to get rid of a dictator but you know what...sod it. It's just not worth any soldiers life to go to one of these countries and end up watching the 'allahu akbars' running around like crazed lunatics looking for their 72 virgins or whatever. They are the lowest form of human being....not worth a bullet


    ...."honourable" eh? I doubt they'd know it if it bit the balls off them. The rest of your post seems to be filled with such a level of xenophobic crap, I doubt you were too concerned in the 1st place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    The Israeli right/US neocons were only part of the picture FFS.

    If the Pentagon doesn't want something to happen it wont happen.

    Chuck Hagel's appointment as USDS was a boot in the hole for the warmongering Neocons and Bibi Netenyahooooo.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Unless they have been maintained. The sanctions were meant to be imposed by an entity which was corrupt. Even if perishable there should be remains of the weapons somewhere? where did they dump them?

    Well them slippery AYrabs were using Trucks and Railcars that moved d'ye see......:rolleyes:

    I still feel that General Colin Powell was hung out to dry in all of this.

    I remember watching his U.N. performance live and his body language to me,indicated a man who was having second thoughts about the Father Ted script he had been just handed to read....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovHrd-Q3Av0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuKoSQEpTkQ

    It's hard to believe that in a World dominated by the highest of hi-tech technology the best that Colin's scriptwriters could manage was the stuff in those clips....Facepalm time ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Nodin wrote: »


    ...."honourable" eh? I doubt they'd know it if it bit the balls off them. The rest of your post seems to be filled with such a level of xenophobic crap, I doubt you were too concerned in the 1st place.
    a fan of Saddam were you nodin? did you shed a tear when he hung from the gallows?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 797 ✭✭✭Dwork


    davet82 wrote: »
    Not denying saddam was an evil bastard at all. It was probably the right thing to do, for the wrong reasons, too late in the day.
    How the feck do you know that? Because the papers said it? I never met him, don't know what he was like, don't know what he did, but I'll bet it was not half as bad as what was done in the name of "taking him down". He was funded by the west, feted by the west and then villified by the west. If he was such a cnut, why did they ensure he endured so long? Probably because they too, were and are cnuts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    a fan of Saddam were you nodin? did you shed a tear when he hung from the gallows?


    Ahh, the old "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists" line. Very good.

    I don't suppose you could imagine a situation where there are more than two possible arguments to take up....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    There was a dude on Moncrieff there a while back talking about a squad of British troops, similar to the SAS, who were sent in to Iraq to take control of over one hundred thousand Iraqi troops who were supposed to be surrendering.

    The squad arrived over, but surprise surprise, the Iraqi battalion didnt want to surrender. Somehow the British squad got out alive but when they returned home, they were derided in the national press as cowards, even though it was poor intelligence and strategic tom foolery that got them into the mess. Just goes to show how well the press was being manipulated by the government.

    I can't remember the name of the book, but it sounded like an interesting read. Professionally speaking it destroyed the soldiers involved through no fault of their own.

    The book is called Zero Six Bravo, was looking at it today actually, but I bought another one, called Lone Survivor, about a group of SEAL's sent to take down a Taliban commander, and after 24 hours, there was only one left.

    But Zero Six Bravo will be next.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    The truth is that the west, in particular the U.S. are very happy to prop up dictatorships as long as they believe they are puppets, in fairness who was it that gave Saddam the weapons in the first place? When they are no longer happy with them then they become enemy no.1. I remember flipping through the news channels a couple of years back, Sky news was reporting on the death of a dictator from the Middle East, they spoke of his crimes etc. randomly I then flipped to FOX, they reported that he was a friend to America and nothing else.

    At the end of the day Bill Clinton was impeached over a blow job and Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell and Rice despite the fact that their lies killed thousands of people, U.S., Iraqi and others, never were. They should all have been brought up on war crimes along with Tony Blair. The fact that these people get to go off into the sunset with a nice chunk of money for their retirements just goes to show how superior the west really is.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Cross post from similar thread on Politics.

    ______________

    At the time, I don't think I gave the cause for the war much consideration at all, actually. I don't recall being particularly swayed by the AQ or WMD lines, but on the other hand, I didn't see any particular downsides to the concept of removing Saddam anyway, even if the motivations for doing so were less than stellar.

    My personal interest only really piqued when I was sent there, which is natural enough, I guess. For all the talk about Iraq having been one of the most modern and developed middle-Eastern nations prior to the unpleasantness of 1991 or so, I sure as hell would not have wanted to be in one of the less modern and less developed nations. Granted, they were better off than Afghanistan, but that's hardly Middle-East. I was lucky enough to spend a while at opposite ends of the spectrum, most of my time was in an undeveloped agrarian region, but I also spent some weeks bouncing around a developed city.

    My first introduction to Saddam's "Baghdad First" policy came within an hour of crossing the border in March 2004. About the far side of Basra, Highway 1, the main artery to the country's only port city, turned from an immaculate motorway to a dirt trail. I'm not exaggerating, I don't mean 'two lane blacktop', I mean 'desert that has been graded, but nothing else done to it.' Took us four-five hours to get back to the blacktop, which was about 30 miles South of Baghdad. Obviously the government wasn't all that concerned about people wanting to go to/from the outlying areas.

    The region I spent most of my time in was a bit unusual, perhaps. Some 30 miles North of Baghdad, right next to Al Dujail. This resulted in an odd mix as, though ostensibly a Shiite part of the world, the population had been a little reduced by massacre and forcibly resettled with Sunni replacements as a reprisal against an assassination attempt in the 1980s. Fairly fertile farmland, and masterfully irrigated, though the people were often living in a strange dichotomy of poverty and modern convenience. Most families had access to a motor vehicle of some sort, for example, but there was no source of clean water or sewage system. I feel I took my life in my hands sometimes when I was invited to share their meals! (I never did come down with anything, thankfully. I broke a few rules in eating local food, but really, could I say 'no' and not offend them?). Electricity was supplied by communally owned generators. These weren't instances of depravity caused by ten years of sanctions, there was no indication that any such services were ever available to them at any stage in the past.

    As a general rule, the people seemed to be about what you'd find anywhere. Most of them didn't really care who was going to run the country, as long as they could get a good price for their vegetables in the local market and their kids grew up safe and well educated. Some odd priorities, though... When we asked one town council what they'd like us to build in their town (which had no clinic or school), they said 'football stadium'. Yeah, we told them to try again. As a general rule, our priority of reconstruction was healthcare: Water and medical access. My platoon medic was probably the greatest asset we had, we'd have people walk up to us carrying their kids for things as simple as burns (The kid whose heart was outside his ribcage was beyond my medic's abilities, we had to send that one up the chain. Never did find out what happened him).

    I became known to the locals as "Mulazem Tee-el", which, unless my interpreter was lying to me, translated as "Lieutenant Flagpole."
    I was a tad taller than most of the locals. I must have cut an impressive figure, one family matriarch tried to fob her daughter off on me. (When I explained 'sorry, I'm married', that didn't stop her. 'Have another wife!'. Upon explaining that Wife #1 would leave me and I'd go to jail, the mother was horrified. How could a country as advanced as the US be so barbaric as to deny a man a second wife? Good question...)

    After the first week when we showed up and the insurgents realised they wanted to shoot at easier targets than tanks, combat in my neck of the woods was limited, almost down to a case of satisfying honor. They'd empty a magazine at us, we'd shoot back, nobody would hit anything, and we were all good for the next couple of weeks. With only one exception, most of the serious opposition commuted to our AO. (You don't crap in your own back yard), that one exception was dealt with after three consecutive appointments (I don't think we killed them, we just scared them enough that they left us alone after that).

    The Iraqi forces at the time were... unreliable. Some were actually quite good, most of the ones in my area, not so much. After a few months, we had to go on joint patrols, bring a couple of Iraqi lads along with us to show how it was done. Nicer idea in theory than in practice, it took a while before proper emphasis was placed on doing this right. I do recall one day in June or July 2004 when we got a radio call as we were out on patrol: "The CPA has handed over control of the country to an Iraqi interim government. The occupation is over, you are now honoured guests of the Iraqi government." As I looked back over my two tanks, two Hummers, and the various soldiers and civilians interacting, I couldn't see much difference between then and the half hour ago!

    Anyway, after a... well, I won't say 'pleasant', but really not bad at all 9 months or so in the fields, we were relocated to Mosul. A reasonably modern city, with a heavy Kurdish presence, so parts of the city were very quiet, with a Kurdish militia keeping an eye on things. Other parts of the city, decidedly not quiet. Depending on which part of the city you went to, there were some very nice houses, and there were also places with open sewers (which we discovered after driving through them). Roads were generally good in the city, though drainage sucked, with some underpasses for major roads being completely flooded after rains. Was the only place we ever saw an Iraqi woman not wearing headgear (Two of them, they were on a shopping street).

    City services were non-existant. The police had just been run out of town (hence they sent my tanks up that way), and even the garbage collection wasn't working. The electricity grid was complete chaos, with people stringing up their own lines any which way they wanted. I'd wager this contributed as much to the lack of electricity (overloads and shorts) as a lack of production capacity. (Satellite dishes had started springing up all over the place over the course of the year. I'm told the most popular show was Oprah. No, I have no idea why). I saw one butcher slaughter a cow and let it bleed out on the sidewalk into the gutter. Not sure what the city Health and Safety folks would think of that.

    That said, despite all the chaos, life in the city went on as close to normal as you could expect. We commuted every morning and evening in our tanks to our place of work just like everyone else, and got stuck in traffic jams like everyone else. Pretty surreal, really. (Of course, being in tanks, sometimes we just made our own lanes if the delays were too long. Not that we were the only people with a disrespect for the official traffic laws, Iraqi drivers in general sucked in the consideration towards other department). Local football league was in full swing, I parked the tank by a pitch once and just sat there watching the game. (Cue amusement once the locals figured out I was cheering for the guys in the green jerseys).

    The big event, and the reason that there was so much emphasis on restoring order in the town, was the elections of January 2005. These would be the first free elections in years, and it turned into a bit of a city-wide party. To reduce the bomb threat, a three-day curfew on vehicles was placed just before the locations of the polling stations was announced: No traffic. An astonishing amount of badminton and volleyball nets got erected, to go with all the football matches that sprouted in the streets. Kindof limited where we could go.

    Lots of smiles on election day. Nobody bothered to tell us about the blue dye, and for the life of us we couldn't figure out why the folks we were passing kept smiling and waving their fingers at us and why they were blue. Only one incident at a polling station in our area, a mortar landed about a block away. The people lined up to vote scattered, but they were all back again after about five minutes. They were quite determined to vote.

    Anyway, that's the overview of my recollections of ten years ago from my little vantage point ten feet above the ground. My unit is having a ten-year-reunion later this year, I was shocked when I realized how much time had passed. Anyway, I had no particularly negative experiences with the Iraqis, I didn't seem to offend them too much, and the places I saw needed about all the help they could get.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Ruudi_Mentari


    After hours is now effectively a DMZ you know that right?! sigh..

    NVM.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Thank you Manic Moran nice to have a boots on the ground insight,or should I say tracks if I remember some of your posts


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling



    The book is called Zero Six Bravo, was looking at it today actually, but I bought another one, called Lone Survivor, about a group of SEAL's sent to take down a Taliban commander, and after 24 hours, there was only one left.

    But Zero Six Bravo will be next.

    Bravo two zero is mostly fiction its been proven very inaccurate kinda funny the only member of the team not awarded a medal was black,

    Lone survivor - pretty good read

    Sniper one - Sgt Dan mills .British army sniper in Basra almost a modern day rorke's drift.

    Apache by Ed Macy awesome read .British army apache pilot in Afghanistan


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    America's shame

    The American people have nothing to be ashamed of, but the establishment? Well that's another matter. And let's not forget Tony and the very significant contribution he made to all of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Gatling wrote: »
    Bravo two zero is mostly fiction its been proven very inaccurate kinda funny the only member of the team not awarded a medal was black,

    Lone survivor - pretty good read

    Sniper one - Sgt Dan mills .British army sniper in Basra almost a modern day rorke's drift.

    Apache by Ed Macy awesome read .British army apache pilot in Afghanistan


    Never read Bravo Two Zero, for some reason I just have a dislike for that guy, I don't really now why.

    From what I know Zero Six Bravo centres on SBS troops, and it got some decent reviews online, so looking forward to getting my hands on it.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    At the end of the day Bill Clinton was impeached over a blow job

    Yeah, and he ordered the bombing of innocent civilians in Serbia while their countrymen were being slaughtered in Kosovo by ethnic Albanians. But that was grand. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Yeah, and he ordered the bombing of innocent civilians in Serbia while their countrymen were being slaughtered in Kosovo by ethnic Albanians. But that was grand. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Link source you have for saying he ordered the slaughter of innocent civilians.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭morlock_


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Yeah, and he ordered the bombing of innocent civilians in Serbia while their countrymen were being slaughtered in Kosovo by ethnic Albanians. But that was grand. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Certainly, Kosovo is a utopia now thanks to the Teflon Tony, what a great man he is. Kosovo is thankfully now a hotbed of trafficking humans for sexual slavery but who cares?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Franticfrank


    While Saddam being ousted was great and badly needed, the aftermath of the invasion was a complete disaster. The fact that it was sold to the American public as a quest to find fabricated WMDs is unforgivable. Bush deserves a trial in the Hague. If WMDs were a valid argument for invasion and regime change, why didn't the United States attack the other parties in the 'Axis of Evil' - Iran and North Korea? Iran are threatening to wipe Israel off the map and North Korea are threatening Seoul with a nuclear strike. Seems Iraq was the least threatening of the three nations by far. Proof enough of the real reasons for the war in 2003.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭morlock_


    Iran are threatening to wipe Israel off the map and North Korea are threatening Seoul with a nuclear strike. Seems Iraq was the least threatening of the three nations by far. Proof enough of the real reasons for the war in 2003.

    Iran never said that although it's something I hear repeatedly mentioned.
    Israel wants America to attack Iran just like it wanted America to attack Iraq, do you really want to keep listening to Israeli lies? Was attacking Iraq based on lies not enough?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Franticfrank


    morlock_ wrote: »
    Iran never said that although it's something I hear repeatedly mentioned.
    Israel wants America to attack Iran just like it wanted America to attack Iraq, do you really want to keep listening to Israeli lies? Was attacking Iraq based on lies not enough?

    I would sooner trust the Israelis than a holocaust denier like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Yes, the lies based on attacking Iraq were more than enough. I was just pointing out that Iraq was no more of threat than Iran and North Korea.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭morlock_


    I would sooner trust the Israelis than a holocaust denier like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Yes, the lies based on attacking Iraq were more than enough. I was just pointing out that Iraq was no more of threat than Iran and North Korea.

    Well, this perfectly illustrates everything wrong with people supporting a war against Iran.

    You've learned absolutely nothing from the events in Iraq, Libya, Syria and now you want to walk down the same path and start a war in Iran?

    You would "trust" Israelis after the fact they lied about every single justification for America to attack Iraq and surrounding countries like Libya and Syria? You would "trust" them after all that?

    Well, I don't trust them and I certainly won't be giving my life for any Israeli, EVER, no matter what happens over there.

    And It's tragic that American men and women are expected to do that but if they're foolish enough to believe in Israeli lies, they're foolish enough to fight and die for Israel.

    If you are so worried about Israel, why don't you pick up a gun and go fight for the so-called FSA in Syria. Good luck.


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