revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

MadsL · 20-03-2013 01:56PM

SamHall wrote: »

Mistakes happen.

Can you see how some in my position are peeved about this now?

How can you be justifiably peeved by paying a voluntary tax?
And still waiting on the Ben Gilroy questions I asked, did you go to a meeting?

Banjo String · 20-03-2013 02:37PM

MadsL wrote: »

How can you be justifiably peeved by paying a voluntary tax?

You seem to be a bit peeved about leaving your daughter in Ireland, though your emigration decision was a voluntary one.

MadsL wrote: »

And still waiting on the Ben Gilroy questions I asked, did you go to a meeting?

No. Why would I go to a meeting? Was i obliged to go?

dxhound2005 · 20-03-2013 02:46PM

darkhorse wrote: »

At last the bleedin penny drops. When I complete a weeks work, Income tax is deducted from my weekly wage, are ya with me so far. When the government look for a property tax from me, because I choose to buy a home for my family, instead of putting them to the bother of trying to house us, where do you imagine the money for to pay for the property tax comes from, thats right, you guessed it, from the same wages that I had already paid my income tax from. Is this not double taxation.

No, Double Taxation is a term used in international agreements where taxpayers are liable for taxes in more than one administration.

What you are describing could be called Dual Funding. An example is England where private property owners pay an average £1200 Property Tax based on the value of their houses. They also pay for water and sewerage facilities through direct payments a few hundred a year typically. These monies provide part of the funding for local government to give services to the householders and the community generally.

But there is no way that these levels of taxes could pay for everything locally, they only cover about 25%. So central government grants have to make up most of the shortfall. And central government gets its money from Income Tax Vat etc. Millions of the people paying Property Tax are also paying Income Tax so they are paying it from earned taxed income. But they don't call it Double Taxation in England or anywhere else in the world with similar systems.

Banjo String · 20-03-2013 02:57PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No, Doubsparklyions a term used in international agreements where taxpayers are liable for taxes in more than one administration.

What you are describing could be called Dual Funding. An example is England where private property owners pay an average £1200 Property Tax based on the value of their houses. They also pay for water and sewerage facilities through direct payments a few hundred a year typically. These monies provide part of the funding for local government to give services to the householders and the community generally.

But there is no way that these levels of taxes could pay for everything locally, they only cover about 25%. So central government grants have to make up most of the shortfall. And central government gets its money from Income Tax Vat etc. Millions of the people paying Property Tax are also paying Income Tax so they are paying it from earned taxed income. But they don't call it Double Taxation in England or anywhere else in the world with similar systems.

What you're describing then, is treble taxation for us by your logic.

The folk in England are not paying a third time for services, they have free education and health care.

And as we're already funding a central fund via income tax motor tax etc, their system isn't different from ours except they get a lot more for their buck than us.

This has been covered loads of times already though.

Bruthal · 20-03-2013 04:06PM

MadsL wrote: »

How can you be justifiably peeved by paying a voluntary tax?

You volunteered to leave, and are peeved.

Death and Taxes · 20-03-2013 04:46PM

Letter from revenue arrived yesterday, filled it in and returned it today.
Cant see what the big deal is myself, its a tax, pay it.

MonkeyTennis · 20-03-2013 05:59PM

it seems to have scared away the scare mongers

dxhound2005 · 20-03-2013 06:55PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Letter from revenue arrived yesterday, filled it in and returned it today.
Cant see what the big deal is myself, its a tax, pay it.

Got my letter yesterday as well. It has a version of my name which is on record with the Revenue Commissioners not the one I used to pay the HHC. So people saying that the HHC was only to create a property tax database would be wrong in my case.

mikom · 20-03-2013 06:58PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

So people saying that the HHC was only to create a property tax database would be wrong in my case.

You're special.

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 07:20PM

MadsL wrote: »

Sorry meant to post this URL https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/ which is still down (internet savvy Ben let his domain lapse)

Cached here http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9uHKCyUNJuAJ:https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Similar freeman voodoo.

Here's another case of voodoo -

Enda Kenny: “Any tax on a persons home is immoral, unjust and unfair”

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 07:22PM

ezra_pound wrote: »

It is her decision. It just incentivises her to make it. There is currently not enough family accommodation in Dublin. What's your solution to providing such accommodation to families?

NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA NAMA

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 07:25PM

MadsL wrote: »

But some homeowners were to blame as we have already discussed.

So these are your options
1. Raise income tax alone (bad for economy, bad for low wages)
2. Tax only homeowners (but..but...)
3. Tax a subset of homeowners (the ones to blame, who are they?)
4. Tax other things.

So, what are your choices. If 4, what do you tax?

So sell your house and don't have that liability. All the taxes mentioned above are voluntary except income tax.

COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE :pac:
Would there be a market for all our houses? Who would provide the alternative accomodation for all of us?

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 07:37PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Letter from revenue arrived yesterday, filled it in and returned it today.
Cant see what the big deal is myself, its a tax, pay it.

A lot of "wagon circling" going on now. The Cavalry have arrived.

newbie2013 · 20-03-2013 07:43PM

Havent recieved any letter yet but when i do its going in the bin

drdeadlift · 20-03-2013 07:47PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Letter from revenue arrived yesterday, filled it in and returned it today.
Cant see what the big deal is myself, its a tax, pay it.

Suppose you brought your teacher an apple too right ?

MadsL · 20-03-2013 08:49PM

SamHall wrote: »

You seem to be a bit peeved about leaving your daughter in Ireland, though your emigration decision was a voluntary one.

Do enlighten me how you feel you were forced to buy a house. This should be good.

No. Why would I go to a meeting? Was i obliged to go?

As you are doing a bit of advertising and cheering for the guy I thought you might have gone along.

Bruthal wrote: »

You volunteered to leave, and are peeved.

Nothing voluntary about leaving after applying for 500 jobs, including applications throughout Europe and even Kazakhstan.

tayto lover wrote: »

COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE :pac:
Would there be a market for all our houses? Who would provide the alternative accomodation for all of us?

The option is in front of you all the same.

MadsL · 20-03-2013 08:51PM

newbie2013 wrote: »

Havent recieved any letter yet but when i do its going in the bin

Let us know how that works for you.

Phoebas · 20-03-2013 09:21PM

newbie2013 wrote: »

Havent recieved any letter yet but when i do its going in the bin

Isn't that just the equivalent of accepting the Revenue estimate, with the added hassle of being in the Revenue's sights?

revenue.ie wrote:

Where a property owner fails to submit their LPT return by the relevant due date
Revenue’s Estimate of LPT liability will be collected using normal
collection/enforcement options – deduction at source, sheriff, court action,
attachment orders.

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 09:26PM

Phoebas wrote: »

Isn't that just the equivalent of accepting the Revenue estimate, with the added hassle of being in the Revenue's sights?

When should we expect the letters?

Phoebas · 20-03-2013 09:29PM

tayto lover wrote: »

When should we expect the letters?

They've already started posting them out according to some people on this thread.
I haven't had mine yet.

Banjo String · 20-03-2013 09:30PM

MadsL wrote: »

Do enlighten me how you feel you were forced to buy a house. This should be good.

No one 'forced' us to buy a home for the family.

In saying that though, stamp duty was attached to the home then in lieu of a property tax.

Where has your confusion on that came from incidentally?

MadsL wrote: »

As you are doing a bit of advertising and cheering for the guy I thought you might have gone along .

Wroing again.

MadsL wrote: »

Nothing voluntary about leaving after applying for 500 jobs, including applications throughout Europe and even Kazakhstan.

You could have stayed at home you know?

No one forced you to emigrate, you keep playing the poor mouth in that line, fact is though you could've stayed in Ireland with your daughter.

As a non home owner in Ireland, actually as a non resident in Ireland, why is this whole property tax issue such concern to you?

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 09:34PM

MadsL wrote: »

Do enlighten me how you feel you were forced to buy a house. This should be good.

As you are doing a bit of advertising and cheering for the guy I thought you might have gone along.

Nothing voluntary about leaving after applying for 500 jobs, including applications throughout Europe and even Kazakhstan.

The option is in front of you all the same.

There were option in front of you too and you seem agitated like you took the wrong one. You could have stayed and slugged it out.Don't eat yourself up over it though as it's not worth it.

MadsL · 20-03-2013 09:41PM

SamHall wrote: »

No one 'forced' us to buy a home for the family.

In saying that though, stamp duty was attached to the home then in lieu of a property tax.

Where has your confusion on that came from incidentally?

Probably you drawing parallels with buying a house and forced emigration.

Wroing again.

So you sig is quite meaningless then? Are not prepared to even explain the guy's policies. Is it based on this DDI bolloxology?

You could have stayed at home you know?

No one forced you to emigrate, you keep playing the poor mouth in that line, fact is though you could've stayed in Ireland with your daughter.

And since the Jobseeker's benefit had run out and the only option was a rent allowance flat and the dole, or depleting savings further, not too many real options there. Sometimes you have to move where the work is.

You are now critising me for not drawing dole in Ireland. Quite unreal.

As a non home owner in Ireland, actually as a non resident in Ireland, why is this whole property tax issue such concern to you?

I have already explained that in an earlier post. To turn the question around - why is my opinion of such concern to you as I have no vote in Ireland? Is it just your sense of "how very dare" someone who doesn't live in Ireland have an opinion on it?

mikom · 20-03-2013 09:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

And since the Jobseeker's benefit had run out and the only option was a rent allowance flat and the dole, or depleting savings further, not too many real options there.

The economy could have done with you spending your savings.
Patriotic act missed out on there, MadsL.

MadsL · 20-03-2013 09:50PM

tayto lover wrote: »

There were option in front of you too and you seem agitated like you took the wrong one. You could have stayed and slugged it out.Don't eat yourself up over it though as it's not worth it.

I think you are misunderstanding my anger at the economic collapse through property greed with regret for leaving. Apart from family separation I have no regrets at all. I find it rich that there is so much complaining about increased taxes and so little action however, and I despair for my daughter to have to grow up with such a such god-awful legacy of debt.

I hope she gets a good free(ish) education and then gets out of there. She should not have to pick up the tab for the party either.

tayto lover · 20-03-2013 09:59PM

MadsL wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding my anger at the economic collapse through property greed with regret for leaving. Apart from family separation I have no regrets at all. I find it rich that there is so much complaining about increased taxes and so little action however, and I despair for my daughter to have to grow up with such a such god-awful legacy of debt.

I hope she gets a good free(ish) education and then gets out of there. She should not have to pick up the tab for the party either.

I agree.
I had a fairly humble existence. Always worked and never had a day sick except in 1979 when I was hospitalised for 3 days after an accident. never had a holiday abroad and only went over to a rented house in the west for a week twice when my kids were young.
I have protested and will continue to do so. After all my 6 grandchildren have been lumbered by a debt of 56k each for something they had no part in.

Banjo String · 20-03-2013 10:01PM

MadsL wrote: »

Probably you drawing parallels with buying a house and forced emigration.

Let's be honest here. No one, present or previous govt's forced you to emigrate, that's just exaggeration at its highest.

MadsL wrote: »

So you sig is quite meaningless then? Are not prepared to even explain the guy's policies. Is it based on this DDI bolloxology?

The word 'EXILED' is under your name, are you actually exiled from the Island?

I would like to see Gilroy get elected, for the reasons already posted by me in this thread.

MadsL wrote: »

And since the Jobseeker's benefit had run out and the only option was a rent allowance flat and the dole, or depleting savings further, not too many real options there. Sometimes you have to move where the work is.

What line of work were you in?

MadsL wrote: »

You are now critising me for not drawing dole in Ireland. Quite unreal.

I am.? Where?

In saying that though, "the option was in front of you"

MadsL wrote: »

I have already explained that in an earlier post. To turn the question around - why is my opinion of such concern to you as I have no vote in Ireland? Is it just your sense of "how very dare" someone who doesn't live in Ireland have an opinion on it?

No not at all.

You keep harping on though about the property taxes you pay in America.

Have you not enough to be worrying yourself about, without worrying about a country you're 'exiled' from

MadsL · 20-03-2013 10:08PM

SamHall wrote: »

Let's be honest here. No one, present or previous govt's forced you to emigrate, that's just exaggeration at its highest.

Just like no-one forced you to pay stamp duty nor the LPT.

The word 'EXILED' is under your name, are you actually exiled from the Island?

Observant, and lacking in a sense of humour aren't you.

I would like to see Gilroy get elected, for the reasons already posted by me in this thread.

How do you feel about him lying about the constitution and this DDI codology?

What line of work were you in?

I'm a goalpost shifter, at least that is what I have been accused of.

I am.? Where?

According to you I should have stayed.

You keep harping on though about the property taxes you pay in America.

Given they are six times the level that you are whining about, yes, yes I do. Do you think you have it so bad?

Have you not enough to be worrying yourself about, without worrying about a country you're 'exiled' from

And there's the thing that gets you, the old how dare emigrants tell us anything. That's why they are denied the vote isn't it? Ireland loathes emigrants. Nothing new there...perhaps you should be less of a cliche.

Now there has been quite enough about me in this thread, I suggest we get back to discussing the tax.

darkhorse · 20-03-2013 10:16PM

MadsL wrote: »

Some did. Do you dispute that fact?

You are right, some did, there is no one disputing this.

MadsL · 20-03-2013 10:19PM

darkhorse wrote: »

You are right, some did, there is no one disputing this.

If you have any suggestion for isolating those who did and making them pay relatively more tax I'd love to hear them.

revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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