revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

So how are home owners any more guilty of causing the bailout than those who rented?

They were (many) participants in the bubble property market. I'd hardly call them 'guilty', but they did contribute to it.

tayto lover wrote: »

Surely you are aware of some people in council houses who have never contributed anything. Never worked, never will, always able to go drinking. I see it everyday.

And they get "free houses", tell me how that works.

Bruthal wrote: »

A but surely it will only be the fault of people who actually vote for them. Is`t that right?

And those who allow it to happen. All this posturing about can't pay is playing right into FF hands.

tayto lover wrote: »

If you are going to expect me to pay because I have the "amenity of a house" then I suggest that they tax you on the capital you have saved as a result of not buying a house. That might sound silly and is probably as silly as your argument.

You never heard of capital gains tax, we did get taxed on capital invested outside of the property market.

Bruthal wrote: »

Well then, people who were paying huge stamp duties were propping you up then, where they not? Where are the warning emails you sent, complaining that you were obviously paying too little tax, due to house buyers paying huge amounts?

Why would I complain about people voluntarily paying too much tax? I thought they were idiots, but why would I try and stop them? I did try and stop colleagues throwing money away, but they knew better than me and laughed when I showed them The Economist articles predicting 30% - 40% price drops.

Stamp Duty propped up mortgage interest relief did it not, I was not fortunate enough to have a Govt helping me pay my rent with a monthly tax refund of that magnitude. I think it was about €500 a year relief for renters.

Similar to above mentioned stamp duty payers paying the property tax is it?

Stamp duty and rates have always existed, Jack Lynch chose to make developers pay rates on property owners behalf. You have always had two taxes on property.

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah yes double taxation.
Nice to see Mads change sides and join us.

EDIT: You do not have double taxation. You obviously misunderstand what double taxation is, it is not one person paying two taxes, it is two people both paying the same tax liability. Double taxation would be both a landlord AND the renter paying LPT. You have ALWAYS had Stamp Duty AND rates. The Landlord is liable for both and the cost of them is effectively factored into the rent. That is why renters should NOT pay the LPT.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Eh I think your missing a vital point. The Troika bailout is to cover money pumped into the banks and to pay the deficit currently being run by government. It has nothing to do with bailing out home owners. So how are home owners any more guilty of causing the bailout than those who rented?

It was caused by poorly regulated banking, governments over reliance on Stamp Duty all the while paying public sector workers more money and Bertie's obsession of having 100% employment by boosting public sector numbers instead of leaving job creation to the private sector.

EDIT: How did the banks get in that mess? Largely through lending money for unsustainable mortgages.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

So how are they any more responsible for the trouble we are in? You have suggested the homeonwner is responsible and not the renter? Yet without the renter there would be no buy to let market? So how are they any more responsible for the countries collapse?

Do you really think that Ireland had a mature buy-to-let market? Even in this thread we have seen people facing up the fact that they ought to register as landlords.

As to a buy-to-let market, the boom created an artificial one - buying apartments to let to immigrants coming to build apartments to let to immigrants.

Normal renters were in no way part of that madness.

The banks are responsible for the collapse, the governments reliance on stamp duty is responsible for the countries collapse and running a huge deficit with the loss of 300,000 jobs has resulted in the Troikas entry.[/QUOTE]

Who fed the Govt their Stamp Duty? Certainly not renters.

You also blamed the property market bubble for your leaving Ireland. I'd like an explaination how myself and others buying a house has resulted in people having to emigrate.

Really not that hard to understand the events of the past few years, did you never hear of a Folie à deux? the relationship between the willingness of people to pay overinflated prices and a Government hell-bent on staying popular meant that the round and round she goes nature of the boom spiralied out of control.

If you put all of that on the banks, god love ya.

flutered wrote: »

i was speaking with one of these farmer blokes today, he is in long fills constituncy, i asked him will he pay the household charge, he said that he had it paid already, i asked his why so early, he claimed that unless he paid the household charge he would not recieve the single farm payment, he also claimed that it had already being put to farmers.

Maybe if those refusing to pay the LPT were subject to losing their mortgage interest relief we might see a different tune being sung.

Bruthal wrote: »

By not buying new cars.

So do you not tax it or not put fuel in it? Being as how you are so opposed to "double" taxes?