actuator issue

14-02-2013 05:26PM

jjf1974 wrote: »

s plan wiring explainedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIY_T6mx7KM

I love a good S-plan, mistakes I come across, would be adding 240v to the grey when a switch live isn't required, if the boiler has a 240v link in it then the boiler is producing the 240v itself, adding a moody 240v in some cases can lead to a boiler bypassing safety devices.

My pet hate, bringing in a moody 240v switch live to the other side of of a 240v link, so when you isolate the power to the boiler you can die as I nearly did:mad: if on a stupid day you don't spot the moody voltage.

Induction. If a boiler has a low voltage link then the orange and grey must be split from the 240v

Using the earth for anything but the earth

and not putting tape on it to indicate the bit of juice there.

14-02-2013 05:29PM

shane0007 wrote: »

There was a post here on Boards recently where the homeowner knew there was a motorised valved installed somewhere, know it was inside a wall but just did not know where!!!
Plumbers now need stethoscopes as part their tool kit to listen for hidden motors turning....

I had them hidden behind little doors once, so I could wave at them but couldn't touch them.

gdavis · 14-02-2013 06:20PM

i had my heart broken my a mv under the bedroom floor in a house un beknowns to the householder,he kept asking me what has me lifting floorboards gotta do with boiler not working!!

Irish Steve · 15-02-2013 03:18AM

Best one I've had like that was a 3 way valve built in to an alcove in the side of the chimney breast, so the only way to get at it was to remove the large and heavy drinks cabinet that was beside the chimney in order to remove the panel that was hiding the Mv, and then finding that the entire system was going to have to be drained to replace the MV body due to wear.

To add to the amusement, I also eventually found that the room stat had been replaced a number of years earlier, and the 3 wires that went to the stat had been replaced in line with the colours. Only problem was that the stat had a compensating resistor, so the red was live, the black was neutral, and the green (old wiring, like 30 years old) had been hijacked by the person that put the first compensated stat in years earlier and had become the live return. No tape or sleeving to indicate the change, had to find the other end buried in a small box in the hot press to confirm it.

When the first compensated stat had been replaced, the new stat was wired with green to earth, so it was doing nothing at all, and it had been like this for a number of years, but due to 3 way valve issues, the system had been sort of working, in that the rads did get warm.

Some of the comments in the last few messages are the consequences of "Celtic Tiger" training, and yes, as a result, it's no longer safe to assume anything on things like stats, or MV's, green and yellow might be earth, but don't rely on it.

Worst example I've seen of that attitude was a restaurant that had a 3 phase coffee machine, which also needed a neutral, and the individual that fitted it only had a piece of 4 core with braided protection screen inside a clear PVC screen, real heavy cable, but in this case, one core short. When I opened it all up, the earth had been "connected" by taping, yes taping a piece of 2.5 solid that was wrapped around the protective braid, and then doing the same at the other end to connect to the building earth. Not even a screw terminal connector, just wrapped round the braid and taped up. Problem was that the cable wasn't anchored in to the machine or the box by adequate glands, so when the machine was moved to clean under it, the cable was stretched, and yes, the earth connection pulled off. Copped it when the heater element started to fail due to scaling, and (fortunately) a small potential was then getting on to the frame, but it could so easily have been full voltage, which with no earth and water present could have been lethal.

Slight digression, but we seem to be going that way now.

Going back to MV's, having the boiler set up so that it doesn't cycle unless there is a heat demand from a zone is a significant saving, especially in the summer when the only demand is hot water, which may only cycle a couple of times a day if the jacket on the cylinder is good.

This thread has provoked some thoughts of a possible project, but it will take some work, which would be to have a small microprocessor that could be set up to give variable zone or even room temperatures depending on the time of day, most systems at the moment are still based on a stat set to a value, and having the ability to vary it to different temperatures at different times could mean another significant saving, especially if it could be done by smaller areas than just a zone, using something like a variable stat on the radiator that could be opened and closed under the control of an external device, remotely. Time for some E-mails to a few people.

Merch · 15-02-2013 12:28PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

Best one I've had like that was a 3 way valve built in to an alcove in the side of the chimney breast, so the only way to get at it was to remove the large and heavy drinks cabinet that was beside the chimney in order to remove the panel that was hiding the Mv, and then finding that the entire system was going to have to be drained to replace the MV body due to wear.

To add to the amusement, I also eventually found that the room stat had been replaced a number of years earlier, and the 3 wires that went to the stat had been replaced in line with the colours. Only problem was that the stat had a compensating resistor, so the red was live, the black was neutral, and the green (old wiring, like 30 years old) had been hijacked by the person that put the first compensated stat in years earlier and had become the live return. No tape or sleeving to indicate the change, had to find the other end buried in a small box in the hot press to confirm it.

When the first compensated stat had been replaced, the new stat was wired with green to earth, so it was doing nothing at all, and it had been like this for a number of years, but due to 3 way valve issues, the system had been sort of working, in that the rads did get warm.

Some of the comments in the last few messages are the consequences of "Celtic Tiger" training, and yes, as a result, it's no longer safe to assume anything on things like stats, or MV's, green and yellow might be earth, but don't rely on it.

Worst example I've seen of that attitude was a restaurant that had a 3 phase coffee machine, which also needed a neutral, and the individual that fitted it only had a piece of 4 core with braided protection screen inside a clear PVC screen, real heavy cable, but in this case, one core short. When I opened it all up, the earth had been "connected" by taping, yes taping a piece of 2.5 solid that was wrapped around the protective braid, and then doing the same at the other end to connect to the building earth. Not even a screw terminal connector, just wrapped round the braid and taped up. Problem was that the cable wasn't anchored in to the machine or the box by adequate glands, so when the machine was moved to clean under it, the cable was stretched, and yes, the earth connection pulled off. Copped it when the heater element started to fail due to scaling, and (fortunately) a small potential was then getting on to the frame, but it could so easily have been full voltage, which with no earth and water present could have been lethal.

Slight digression, but we seem to be going that way now.

Going back to MV's, having the boiler set up so that it doesn't cycle unless there is a heat demand from a zone is a significant saving, especially in the summer when the only demand is hot water, which may only cycle a couple of times a day if the jacket on the cylinder is good.

This thread has provoked some thoughts of a possible project, but it will take some work, which would be to have a small microprocessor that could be set up to give variable zone or even room temperatures depending on the time of day, most systems at the moment are still based on a stat set to a value, and having the ability to vary it to different temperatures at different times could mean another significant saving, especially if it could be done by smaller areas than just a zone, using something like a variable stat on the radiator that could be opened and closed under the control of an external device, remotely. Time for some E-mails to a few people.

When my mother changed over to gas heating years ago, I saw as the expansion vessel was put under the floor boards, I was still young enough at the time and only visiting, that might be a component not of much concern to put there, but I still dont think its a good idea to hide anything away or out of the way where it is inaccessible for maintenance.
Same house someone put in some extra lights, bulbs kept blowing, found earths and lives taped (maybe not as significant as 3 phase) and the earths were live also, even a capable DIYer couldnt manage to fcuk that up, I think regulations were different back then maybe?

Id wondered myself about introducing controlling the whole house with a PLC or some minature controller in an integrated manner, rather than a seperate device for each system that then may or may not be capable of being interfaced with other systems,(ie alarm/heating/lights/locks/other devices. I heard a small PLC or minature? controller can be gotten for around €100. The only thing is the user interface (I imagine) would have to be a PC/Laptop, it might be interesting to do, but it does seem some alarms have the facility to control other elements such as heating and can receive/dispatch communications with an operator.

I definitely read where one alarm type can turn on the heating if its not on, but if it has been switched on seperately by its own timer-programmer that it couldnt be switched off, in that case a PLC type controller might be useful as you could have parallel circuits to turn on/off things under different circumstances but series on/off connections to interrupt other signals/power supply too.

robertxxx · 15-02-2013 10:04PM

Op, I have the same ones as you and had the same fault, I opened them up and it was a simple repair if you can use a soldiering iron.

It's just one wire that comes loose in the same place in all 3 of them.

Repaired them over a year ago and they still work fine now.

Conar · 16-02-2013 01:26AM

robertxxx wrote: »

Op, I have the same ones as you and had the same fault, I opened them up and it was a simple repair if you can use a soldiering iron.

It's just one wire that comes loose in the same place in all 3 of them.

Repaired them over a year ago and they still work fine now.

Too late. I really should have taken a look at the motors more closely.

Conar · 19-03-2013 08:01PM

robertxxx wrote: »

Op, I have the same ones as you and had the same fault, I opened them up and it was a simple repair if you can use a soldiering iron.

It's just one wire that comes loose in the same place in all 3 of them.

Repaired them over a year ago and they still work fine now.

Just realised that I still have the old actuators.
Free for someone to pick up if they could use them for spares or repair them.

Merch · 19-03-2013 08:39PM

Conar wrote: »

Just realised that I still have the old actuators.
Free for someone to pick up if they could use them for spares or repair them.

Is that the synchronous motors? i'll take them off your hands

Conar · 19-03-2013 09:03PM

Merch wrote: »

Is that the synchronous motors? i'll take them off your hands

Its the motors and the 2 way valve.
I have them in Leixlip at the moment but spend half my time down in Clare.
Interested?

Merch · 19-03-2013 09:09PM

Conar wrote: »

Its the motors and the 2 way valve.
I have them in Leixlip at the moment but spend half my time down in Clare.
Interested?

Yes, I'll take them off you, whenever you are around, I like to have a look at things, see how they work.
Im in no rush, so whenever you are around, let me know and Ill collect them off you when it suits.

Conar · 19-03-2013 09:11PM

Merch wrote: »

Yes, I'll take them off you, whenever you are around, I like to have a look at things, see how they work.
Im in no rush, so whenever you are around, let me know and Ill collect them off you when it suits.

Sounds good. Will contact you early next week most likely. Just pm me if I forget.

actuator issue

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