revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

Banjo String · 18-03-2013 10:13PM

barneystinson wrote: »

The people get a say in the general election, and this Govt therefore has a mandate to introduce this tax. That's how democracy works, we'd only need a referendum if introducing the tax was deemed unconstitutional.

Democracy is dead in Ireland Barney.

Don't give me this bull about the govt being elected and mandates baloney.

FG did not have property tax in their pre-election manifest, labour did but it was a site valued one. Between the two parties they came up with this load of muck though, that coincidentally let's developers with land-banks, and farmers etc with millions of euro worth fertile land away with being faced with the same bill as a simple married couple in a semi-D.

Then we have the childeren's referendum, ruled as illegal in a court of law, but the cronies in D.E didn't bat an eyelid, and carried on regardless.

We also had the promissory notes saga, a Mr David Hall challenged the govt on the legality issues of the 'scam' pulled by FG/LAB, and he basically was told he had no authority to challenge the govt, not that he was wrong, may I add.

This govt introduced one of the most severe budgets in Dec 2012, with billions of euro worth of cuts, yet a few weeks beforehand, in the Dails own budget, awarded themselves a pay rise.

Yet the govt, cap in hand ask for money from the middle class home owners, to continue to fund the lies, waste and greed around us, seemingly answerable to no-one?

Gimme a break lads, seriously. :rolleyes:

Democracy? You're kidding me.

You fund the lifestyle and greed if you wish though. Carry on now.

MadYaker · 18-03-2013 10:14PM

squod wrote: »

Oh yeah that's right. There's like so never been a challenge to legislation brought before the courts on the grounds of it's constitutionality.

I never said that. Sometimes old legislation is deemed unconstitutional and changed, as highlighted by that statutory rape case a while ago. But I think its extremely unlikely that that will happen with this legislation since the government know its going to be subjected to intense scrutiny by those who oppose it. Does that make sense to you?

Banjo String · 18-03-2013 10:20PM

MadYaker wrote: »

You do realise that the government have teams of people whose job it is to make sure that legislation isn't at odds with the constitution before it is introduced? It ain't gonna happen and anyone who thinks it might is wrong.

Let's hope they're nothing like the team of accountants that 'lost' €3.6 billion down the back of the settee ffs.

Give me a break.

darkhorse · 18-03-2013 10:40PM

barneystinson wrote: »

(PM me if you've any more dilemmas that require common sense. )

barneystinson wrote: »

The people get a say in the general election, and this Govt therefore has a mandate to introduce this tax. That's how democracy works, we'd only need a referendum if introducing the tax was deemed unconstitutional.

No, they certainly do not have a mandate to tax our family home.

What democracy are you talking about, by the way? Were the coalition backbench TDs given a choice to vote against it?

The top one there, though, nearly fcuking split my sides laughing.

barneystinson · 18-03-2013 10:42PM

SamHall wrote: »

Gimme a break lads, seriously. :rolleyes:

SamHall wrote: »

Give me a break.

OK, go on take a break, you've definitely earned it. Take tomorrow off and then come back with renewed vigour on Wednesday, maybe try and get some new material - democracy is dead - when was it alive here out of curiosity? When the church called the shots? Or when that paragon of virtue Haughey was at the helm? The world isn't perfect Sam, and it's no less perfect now than at any other time...

mfceiling · 18-03-2013 10:45PM

barneystinson wrote: »

So a house that like yours, near yours, sold for 280k - that's your reasonable value right there. (PM me if you've any more dilemmas that require common sense. )

The house is like mine in as such as it has the same amount of bedrooms, slightly smaller front garden but faces the road - mine is off the road. How can it be the same as mine? Mine has a better finish inside and our road would be considered a "nicer road" than theirs. Their back garden was south facing - mine isn't - according to some that is worth more.

Plenty of variables plus the revenue has them in a band below mine and has me at an unreasonable €400,000. Why bother setting up a hard to distinguish website that is inaccurate for the majority of people and therefore confuse people even further?

I'll pay this tax but i'd like it to be slightly clearer as to where the money is going plus what is an accurate valuation for your house. As i said before i'm not paying an external valuer to tell me how much money i've to give the revenue. If they really want an accurate valuation then they can send out someone at their expense to do it for me.

dxhound2005 · 18-03-2013 10:52PM

squod wrote: »

Futile? Irresponsible? What the actual fuhk are you on about? Boycotts work. That s the actual reality. Advocating the continuation of this madness is exactly that. Madness.

-Property taxes have never worked in this country. Fact.
-This one will go the same road. Fact

The responsible course of action is a boycott of this tax. If that doesn't suit you, fine. There's clearly more people with better moral fibre opposing this tax than you imagine.

Property taxes have never worked in this country. Fact. ?? Only partly and you cannot state as fact something which is merely a future prediction.

They worked up until 1977. Fact. The version in place from 1983 to 1997 did not work. Indeed a fact but the short history lesson here throws some light on the reason.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/home-truths/2011/12/08/property-tax-take-two-the-lessons-to-be-learned/

Although the legislation survived a constitutional challenge (a lesson there for anyone claiming the new act is unconstitutional) the tax was aimed at a very narrow base of the better off. Whatever the reasons for it's failure, having lived through those times, I detect a much different atmosphere now and I would challenge your prediction (what you call a fact) strongly.

Banjo String · 18-03-2013 10:59PM

barneystinson wrote: »

OK, go on take a break, you've definitely earned it. Take tomorrow off and then come back with renewed vigour on Wednesday, maybe try and get some new material - democracy is dead - when was it alive here out of curiosity? When the church called the shots? Or when that paragon of virtue Haughey was at the helm? The world isn't perfect Sam, and it's no less perfect now than at any other time...

No break for me tomorrow sadly, needs must and all that. I'll be in my usual job tomorrow, earning for the family and paying my taxes.

Resorting to sarcastic replies and personal insults only diminishes the credibility of your posts.

Like I've said though, you continue to pay up, its obviously not a bother to you, but who will you complain to, and when will you decide that you've paid too much already/have no more left to give?

Can I ask if you've paid stamp duty Barney?
Are you in negative equity?
Do you have a family?
Have you taken pay cuts/been subjected to redundancy or job loss?

Genuine question btw.

darkhorse · 18-03-2013 11:02PM

barneystinson wrote: »

This is what I was talking about anyway - http://freemanireland.ning.com/video/attack-the-tax-class-action-by-the-people-against-the-irish?xg_source=activity[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link, barney. I'm 100% in.

darkhorse · 18-03-2013 11:16PM

barneystinson wrote: »

democracy is dead - when was it alive here?

Now ya bleedin start to talk sense. Why did'nt ya speak like this at the start, and we could have finished early.

MadsL · 19-03-2013 12:04AM

darkhorse wrote: »

barneystinson wrote: »

This is what I was talking about anyway - http://freemanireland.ning.com/video/attack-the-tax-class-action-by-the-people-against-the-irish?xg_source=activity[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link, barney. I'm 100% in.

No such thing as a class action in Ireland. Lay litigants? This will end well.

irish bloke · 19-03-2013 12:11AM

username123 wrote: »

Well good luck to them with me. I have no income, no social welfare, Im not self employed and I have no savings in a financial institution.

But you have a computer/smart phone and Internet access!!

solas111 · 19-03-2013 12:16AM

MadYaker wrote: »

You do realise that the government have teams of people whose job it is to make sure that legislation isn't at odds with the constitution before it is introduced? It ain't gonna happen and anyone who thinks it might is wrong.

No, the job of those teams of fat-cats is to frame the legislation in such a way that they will get away with it until someone mounts a legal challenge. The courts will interpret the constitution and decide whether a piece of legislation is legal or not.

In the normal course of events, Sinn Fein would have been jumping up and down at the chance to become the people's champions once again, except that there is a wee problem here - they have introduced a similar tax themselves north of the border so they can only pretend to be against it, just like Fianna Fail who came up with the idea in the first place but who can't decide now how best to put a spin on it before the next election.

dxhound2005 · 19-03-2013 12:54AM

solas111 wrote: »

No, the job of those teams of fat-cats is to frame the legislation in such a way that they will get away with it until someone mounts a legal challenge. The courts will interpret the constitution and decide whether a piece of legislation is legal or not.

In the normal course of events, Sinn Fein would have been jumping up and down at the chance to become the people's champions once again, except that there is a wee problem here - they have introduced a similar tax themselves north of the border so they can only pretend to be against it, just like Fianna Fail who came up with the idea in the first place but who can't decide now how best to put a spin on it before the next election.

If the President has any doubt about the constitutionality of a piece of new legislation he can refer it to the Supreme Court.

http://www.lawlibrary.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=15

Article 26 of the Constitution says that the President may refer Bills to the Supreme Court to get a ruling on whether or not they are constitutional. If the Supreme Court rules that the Bill is constitutional, that Bill cannot be challenged again on its constitutionality.

The President did not consider there was any reason to refer the LPT legislation so all I can say to the amateur lawyers from the Freeman movement or anywhere else is the best of luck.

You may be unaware that Sinn Fein are going to introduce a Bill to repeal the LPT legislation. They didn't introduce the tax in the North but bizarrely they deny that it exists.

squod · 19-03-2013 01:24AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They worked up until 1977. Fact.

I can say with great certainty that they did not. No idea where you were in '77.

squod · 19-03-2013 01:28AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If the President has any doubt about the constitutionality of a piece of new legislation he can refer it to the Supreme Court.

That's not gonna happen. Judging by your posts on this thread I doubt if any points can be made that you'll listen to. This tax will be pissed up against the wall. That's the reality. But I suppose you'll deny that too?

MadsL · 19-03-2013 02:33AM

irish bloke wrote: »

But you have a computer/smart phone and Internet access!!

And a husband with income I assume living there.

barneystinson · 19-03-2013 08:32AM

squod wrote: »

That's not gonna happen. Judging by your posts on this thread I doubt if any points can be made that you'll listen to. This tax will be pissed up against the wall. That's the reality. But I suppose you'll deny that too?

You can make the same point about any/all taxes - do you refuse to pay the rest of your taxes too?

bgrizzley · 19-03-2013 09:06AM

barneystinson wrote: »

You can make the same point about any/all taxes - do you refuse to pay the rest of your taxes too?

is there any straw that would break your back Barney? any tax too far? or could they do just about anything to you and you would mildly take it.

Chinasea · 19-03-2013 09:46AM

SamHall wrote: »

N

Can I ask if you've paid stamp duty?
Are you in negative equity?
Do you have a family?
Have you taken pay cuts/been subjected to redundancy or job loss?

Genuine question btw.

Genuine Mé Féin questions BTW? What if the answer was no to these? What if it was yes? What if it was maybe? What if it was some of the above?

What if you looked up the definition of tax?

Bullseye1 · 19-03-2013 10:00AM

Chinasea wrote: »

Genuine Mé Féin questions BTW? What if the answer was no to these? What if it was yes? What if it was maybe? What if it was some of the above?

What if you looked up the definition of tax?

Your a rare chap. Someone who loves taxes no matter what they are for and no matter how they are wasted. Also interesting that your continuously bringing up me fein as though you don't want individualism but rather you seek lemmings.

Thankfully you are rare.

Leftist · 19-03-2013 10:09AM

pay your taxes and stop whinging. Sick and tired of everyone moaning about contributing to a society they constantly think owes them something.

Bullseye1 · 19-03-2013 10:12AM

People are paying their taxes and are perfectly entitled to question how they are being spent. If you want foolishly had over your money with no questions Alex that is your business. God knows why your one here if your tired of reading other people's posts.

Leftist · 19-03-2013 10:19AM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

People are paying their taxes and are perfectly entitled to question how they are being spent. If you want foolishly had over your money with no questions Alex that is your business. God knows why your one here if your tired of reading other people's posts.

I'm tired of listening to it everywhere, all over the media and internet.

People pretending they live in some nightmare state, they can barely afford to go on holidays or dine in restaurants for christ sakes, as if it was 1920s germany.

the country is in debt. Everyone contributed to it and everyone blames someone else and expects some special treatement. It's not happening. Time to take responsibility.

Sam Kade · 19-03-2013 10:23AM

Leftist wrote: »

pay your taxes and stop whinging. Sick and tired of everyone moaning about contributing to a society they constantly think owes them something.

Moaning about people that moan, you are contradicting yourself.

Leftist · 19-03-2013 10:26AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Moaning about people that moan, you are contradicting yourself.

tbf that is a good point, I hate that myself usually but it's becoming a bit of a stereotypical parody.

Thse people are going to vote in FF in the next election, or come close to it.

They are voting in the people responsible, the ones who ran the train off the tracks and were completely incompetent, but they will vote them in because FF will promise them an easier ride, again.

How can you expect anything better from people like that I suppose. But very disappointing, and gone on too long.

Banjo String · 19-03-2013 10:39AM

Leftist wrote: »

tbf that is a good point, I hate that myself usually but it's becoming a bit of a stereotypical parody.

Thse people are going to vote in FF in the next election, or come close to it.

They are voting in the people responsible, the ones who ran the train off the tracks and were completely incompetent, but they will vote them in because FF will promise them an easier ride, again.

How can you expect anything better from people like that I suppose. But very disappointing, and gone on too long.

And tbf to you.

They voted in the current coalition on the strength of the promises's made pre-election.

I don't wish to see FF returning to power either, but the fact remains when the current lot have broken almost every one if their pre-election promises, you can hardly blame the public on rejecting them either?

TLDR version:

We replaced FF with FF-lite. They've continued on down the same path with the same cronyism as the last lot.

Next govt will be FF/SF, may God help us all.

Bullseye1 · 19-03-2013 10:41AM

It is depressing that FF are doing so well in the polls, the real test however will be the elections. However FG and Labour are doing a fine job in finishing off the domestic economy. From a political and governance point of view this country is a mess. It's all very well saying you get the government you deserve but when all the candidates are essentially useless what hope do we have. You can only vote for what's available on the ballot paper. Voting for all independents won't work either.

bgrizzley · 19-03-2013 10:51AM

SamHall wrote: »

And tbf to you.

They voted in the current coalition on the strength of the promises's made pre-election.

I don't wish to see FF returning to power either, but the fact remains when the current lot have broken almost every one if their pre-election promises, you can hardly blame the public on rejecting them either?

TLDR version:

We replaced FF with FF-lite. They've continued on down the same path with the same cronyism as the last lot.

Next govt will be FF/SF, may God help us all.

you are wasting your time Sam, some of these people actually think there is a difference between ff/fg.

MadsL · 19-03-2013 04:09PM

So Sam, as you are cheerleading Ben Gilroy, please do explain...

http://www.attackthetax.com/about.html

the Household Charge and the Property Tax is Illegal, Unlawful and Unconstutional,
and does NOT have to be paid, unless you consciously consent/agree to paying it.

"I am a freeman" being the theme I expect. What was said/explained at the meetings?

revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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