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revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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Comments

  • #932
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Again with assumptions that I haven't read that document.

    Oh come off it. You have read the audit report for the Environmental Fund 2011 previously before I posted that link and you still scoff at the idea of ringfencing.

    Frankly I don't believe you.
    I did find your statement about purchasing in the us and that prices were starting to rise and rents were overpriced. The exact conditions that lead to the property bubble here.

    It is very, very unlikely that the US will have another property boom in the next 4-10 years. I didnt buy for the profit. A house is a liability.

    People got frightened by rising property prices and their mind was made up they had to get onto the property ladder just as you have.

    I wasn't frightened. We made a calm rational decision based on the fact that rental yields here are stupid high (Intel partially to blame, as is the military) - buying was the best option, especially at 4% fixed for 30 years. At the time that was a better rate than the Irish Government could get for its bonds. We can restructure at any time without penalty.
    Unfortunately that lifetime fixed mortgage does not exist here.

    Someone needs to start screaming for it.


  • #933
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    No everyone did. Did you begrudge them?


  • #934
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MadsL wrote: »




    Shocking property taxes though, $2500 this year, and would be $5,000 if we lived in the next county.

    Do ya get anything in return?


  • #935
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Experiance should teach people never ever believe what politicians tell you. It is their profession to lie in order to get re-elected. I'm cynical and its not without merit. Ring fencing is a lie. It simply does not happen. The excuse of budget overruns is all too often used as an excuse to use monies which were ring fenced.
    MadsL wrote: »
    Oh come off it. You have read the audit report for the Environmental Fund 2011 previously before I posted that link and you still scoff at the idea of ringfencing.

    Frankly I don't believe you.



    It is very, very unlikely that the US will have another property boom in the next 4-10 years. I didnt buy for the profit. A house is a liability.




    I wasn't frightened. We made a calm rational decision based on the fact that rental yields here are stupid high (Intel partially to blame, as is the military) - buying was the best option, especially at 4% fixed for 30 years. At the time that was a better rate than the Irish Government could get for its bonds. We can restructure at any time without penalty.



    Someone needs to start screaming for it.


  • #936
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MadsL wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Federal_income_tax_rates

    Roughly 25% Federal Income Tax
    Plus local State Payroll taxes; Wage base is $22,400 for 2012 and $22,900 for 2013. Rates range from 0.06% to 5.40%.
    Plus Property Taxes. $600-$ lots

    How much is the Universal Social Charge there?


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  • #937
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Hundreds of thousands of them were that frightened that they decided that they better get two or three houses. And one in Bulgaria as well just for good measure.

    I think some of them were "frightened" as in a frenzy was created. And of course when you create this frenzy, demand goes up and your asset bubble expands. Anyone who has taken economics 101 can see how this works. The magicians in the banks who create imaginary money through inventive formulas, from which they collect interest on this imaginary money know this. Create a bubble, let it burst, property prices fall to nothing, and then they can buy it up cheap, recreate demand and the price goes up again.

    Seriously, elementary economics. I saw no less than shacks being sold for phenomonal amounts, houses I wouldn't hand over an old shoe for.

    But people bought into it. Fear is contagious, and it made people spend.


  • #938
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    barneystinson wrote: »
    I hope these people are also going to indemnify their punters for the interest and penalties they'll incur in the event that their action fails, which it will...

    Well, here's a few less people to worry about.

    600 register for property levy – three months early (in the indo to-day)


  • #939
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    darkhorse wrote: »
    How much is the Universal Social Charge there?

    I posted it, local payroll taxes of up to 5%. And trust me, you really do not want to get into the Health service provision provided by the State. Private insurance is really really important. Yes, the USC is high, so is the level of your health and welfare provision.


  • #940
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,784 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Well, here's a few less people to worry about.

    600 register for property levy – three months early (in the indo to-day)

    Do you still think you are going to get away without paying?


  • #941
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,784 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    I think some of them were "frightened" as in a frenzy was created. And of course when you create this frenzy, demand goes up and your asset bubble expands. Anyone who has taken economics 101 can see how this works. The magicians in the banks who create imaginary money through inventive formulas, from which they collect interest on this imaginary money know this. Create a bubble, let it burst, property prices fall to nothing, and then they can buy it up cheap, recreate demand and the price goes up again.

    Seriously, elementary economics. I saw no less than shacks being sold for phenomonal amounts, houses I wouldn't hand over an old shoe for.

    But people bought into it. Fear is contagious, and it made people spend.


    I didn't know the banks were buying houses. That may be due to my inability to understand elementary economics. And maybe you could add greed to frenzy and fear in your analysis.


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  • #942
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I didn't know the banks were buying houses. That may be due to my inability to understand elementary economics. And maybe you could add greed to frenzy and fear in your analysis.

    Sorry I got lost in my train of thought, no they wont buy them, but they will get them and sell them to other buyers be it NAMA or foreign investors cheap. Probably more the land that is of interest than the houses themselves. There was definitely greed too, no doubt about that. And fraud too.

    See this interesting read:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056901498


  • #943
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Why would anyone write to RTE unless you were revealing corruption? And then there are probably more legitimate journalists one could have written too. Of course I've written to politicians on different matters of concern. I've provided professional services for people living in substandard accommodation and have on many occasions taken on local authorities who have been negligent in their duty of care, and no I'm not a lawyer or solicitor. These matters are of a private nature and have no place for boards.

    Written complaints are little drops of water that wears away the mountain. Especially if you can expose wastes or poor deals being made. Local Authorities are horrible in Ireland for it, and sooner rather than later Ireland needs elected accountable mayors.

    Fair play on your efforts, you know you can object to any spending a local authority makes (or fails to make) and the Auditor General will investigate.

    Keep up the good work.


  • #944
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,784 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Sorry I got lost in my train of thought, no they wont buy them, but they will get them and sell them to other buyers be it NAMA or foreign investors cheap. Probably more the land that is of interest than the houses themselves. There was definitely greed too, no doubt about that. And fraud too.

    See this interesting read:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056901498

    Buying a house now should not be the preserve of NAMA or foreign investors. Mortgage loan to value ratio requirements are no more onerous now than they were before the bubble. And compared with the past when unemployment was higher and mortgage interest rates were usually over 10% (as high as 18% in my time) affordability is surely much easier.

    If a "normal" person could get a house now for €140,000 that would have cost €300,000 before why not go for it. There is plenty of money in families out there (€120 billion in private savings) so if they were prepared to help out before it would make more sense now. In fact there is so much wealth out there that Sinn Fein say they could collect €800 million a year in a wealth tax which would not include the family home or farmland.

    And people shouldn't be put off by the property tax, it has no effect on the market in other countries where it is much higher. Maybe people are just being greedy in the reverse sense waiting for prices to fall even further.


  • #945
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Well, here's a few less people to worry about.

    600 register for property levy – three months early (in the indo to-day)

    My point was that it's all well and good for these freeman gobbledegook talkers to promise people that they've got a cunning plan to mount a legal challenge that'll get everyone off the hook for the tax, talk is cheap.

    But even if they're not talkin sh1te then they should still be advising people to pay over the tax pending the outcome of their legal challenge - if they win then the Govt would legally obliged to return the money - if they lose then all their supporters will still be on the hook for the tax, but will have incurred penalties and interest.


  • #946
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Sell up for less than half it value. Clever. WTF, are you attending the Bernie Madoff school of economics over there.

    Anyone who is in the paid off family home will certainly not be selling at a loss, amd you still seem to think these houses are actually worth what was being asked in 2006!


  • #947
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Buying a house now should not be the preserve of NAMA or foreign investors. Mortgage loan to value ratio requirements are no more onerous now than they were before the bubble. And compared with the past when unemployment was higher and mortgage interest rates were usually over 10% (as high as 18% in my time) affordability is surely much easier.

    If a "normal" person could get a house now for €140,000 that would have cost €300,000 before why not go for it. There is plenty of money in families out there (€120 billion in private savings) so if they were prepared to help out before it would make more sense now. In fact there is so much wealth out there that Sinn Fein say they could collect €800 million a year in a wealth tax which would not include the family home or farmland.

    And people shouldn't be put off by the property tax, it has no effect on the market in other countries where it is much higher. Maybe people are just being greedy in the reverse sense waiting for prices to fall even further.

    Who has all this "wealth out there?"

    If banks aren't lending, then you need cash to buy, and even at 140 k who has that kind of cash?

    I was talking to my estate agent, through whom I'm renting, and he said that they aren't accepting mortgages, they want to see the cash in the bank account of the buyer.


  • #948
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,784 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Who has all this "wealth out there?"

    If banks aren't lending, then you need cash to buy, and even at 140 k who has that kind of cash?

    I was talking to my estate agent, through whom I'm renting, and he said that they aren't accepting mortgages, they want to see the cash in the bank account of the buyer.

    Plenty of people have wealth. Unless you believe what the Socialist Party say, that it is all in the pockets of about 5 people.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/is-it-time-to-welcome-back-the-bull-1.502912

    There is certainly plenty of money out there looking for a home. According to the Central Statistics Office, the Irish savings ratio is of the order of 17 per cent, which means that for every €1 of disposable income, households are saving almost 20 cent – in 2007, the percentage saved was zero.


  • #949
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Do you still think you are going to get away without paying?

    I'll do my damndest.


  • #950
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MadsL wrote: »
    Written complaints are little drops of water that wears away the mountain. Especially if you can expose wastes or poor deals being made. Local Authorities are horrible in Ireland for it, and sooner rather than later Ireland needs elected accountable mayors.

    Fair play on your efforts, you know you can object to any spending a local authority makes (or fails to make) and the Auditor General will investigate.

    Keep up the good work.

    Just in case I forget, MadsL, You made a remark in an earlier post that Ben Gilroy is a spoofer. Could you tell us what did he spoof about?


  • #951
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Just in case I forget, MadsL, You made a remark in an earlier post that Ben Gilroy is a spoofer. Could you tell us what did he spoof about?

    That DDI was unconstitutionally taken out of the constitution. The 1937 constitution was a whole new constitution therefore perfectly legal.

    He's also spewing Freeman bolloxology.


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  • #952
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Who has all this "wealth out there?"

    If banks aren't lending, then you need cash to buy, and even at 140 k who has that kind of cash?

    I was talking to my estate agent, through whom I'm renting, and he said that they aren't accepting mortgages, they want to see the cash in the bank account of the buyer.

    I get the impression that dx is doing his averaging sums again. He should come back shortly and tell us how much each citizen in ireland is worth, to include homeless people. After all, you cannot get a proper average, unless you include everyone.


  • #953
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    There is certainly plenty of money out there looking for a home. According to the Central Statistics Office, the Irish savings ratio is of the order of 17 per cent, which means that for every €1 of disposable income, households are saving almost 20 cent – in 2007, the percentage saved was zero.

    120 billion you say. Nice, so if there are 1 million families (actual figure I dont know), thats 120k each.

    Ok, how many in this thread have 120k savings?

    What about you dx? Are you swaying the average to the high end? Or, according to your idea, you have exactly 120k saved is it?

    Id say safely enough, that a very small percentage of people have anything remotely like the average/families share of 120 billion saved.


  • #954
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Bruthal wrote: »
    120 billion you say. Nice, so if there are 1 million families (actual figure I dont know), thats 120k each.

    Ok, how many in this thread have 120k savings?

    What about you dx? Are you swaying the average to the high end? Or, according to your idea, you have exactly 120k saved is it?

    Id say safely enough, that a very small percentage of people have anything remotely like the average/families share of 120 billion saved.

    ive a mug up on the window with about E18 in change. not quite the average either.


  • #955
    Chinasea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    MadsL wrote: »
    Yes. I try and get things done or at least brought to public light. They may not be big things, although I am quite proud of this one.

    You posted a massive list of things you are aggrieved about, but you can't really be bothered to find out who is responsible and write them a simple email.
    Apathy, the Irish disease. Worse, the unending tearing down of anyone who stands up and trys to change things.
    and then some. Except when it comes to matters that affect the Irish phóca, never mind the reasoning behind it, never mind the future or that illusive foresight thingy, never mind our rapidly expanding highest in Europe population BOOM, jayzus wait til the water charges come along. I see no apathy here. I only see proactive dysfunction.

    Recent grungy thread on AH about how that charming bunch of morons called Eirgi were coaching people how to destroy the water meters mustering up tons of support. The real farce however, is that these guys are the die hard Irish anthem'ed ring tune patriots who supposedly love their country.
    Lá Fhéile Pádraig


  • #956
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    And then there are lemmings who want to hand over more money without meaningful changes in how local authorities conduct their business. If you ever had any dealings with local authorities then you wouldn't be so willing to give them more money. You have never seen so much money walk out the door as you do with their legal department who put everything on the long finger and then settle on the steps of the court at huge loses to the public purses.

    Anyone who thinks that the property tax and water charges are patriotic are fooling themselves. It is just more money to be wasted by wasteful civil servants and poorly qualified elected representatives.

    A fool and their money etc.


  • #957
    Chinasea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that the property tax and water charges are patriotic are fooling themselves. It is just more money to be wasted by wasteful civil servants and poorly qualified elected representatives.

    A fool and their money etc.

    Reminds me of the TV licence advertisement: We've heard all the excuses!


  • #958
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,784 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bruthal wrote: »
    120 billion you say. Nice, so if there are 1 million families (actual figure I dont know), thats 120k each.

    Ok, how many in this thread have 120k savings?

    What about you dx? Are you swaying the average to the high end? Or, according to your idea, you have exactly 120k saved is it?

    Id say safely enough, that a very small percentage of people have anything remotely like the average/families share of 120 billion saved.

    70% of people on AH have enough savings to have avoided putting themselves outside the law if they own a house. Which would be very prudent seeing as breaking the law would involve extra expense.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78159751

    There is a ready made €800 million a year to be picked up from a 1% wealth tax. So someone must have it.

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/taxation-measures

    Wealth taxes
    •Introduce a wealth tax of 1% on all assets in excess of €1 million, excluding working farmland, business assets, and the first 20% of value of primary residences worth in excess of €1 million. The Department of Finance to examine an inability to pay clause for asset rich, cash poor individuals. Raises: €800 million


  • #959
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    LOL you have heard and seen all the warnings and you still want to give them more money. Fool and their money etc certainly stands. :D


  • #960
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    The Revenue Commissioners have put my house in one band; the Daft online tool have it in a lower band.
    Personally I value it a bit higher, based on the prices that similar houses in the area have sold for in the last year.

    If I go with the Revenue estimate, will they accept it, even if it might not be accurate?


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  • #961
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Phoebas wrote: »
    The Revenue Commissioners have put my house in one band; the Daft online tool have it in a lower band.
    Personally I value it a bit higher, based on the prices that similar houses in the area have sold for in the last year.

    If I go with the Revenue estimate, will they accept it, even if it might not be accurate?

    I'd not worry about it at all tbh.

    By the looks of some headlines today, what with labour 'imploding' and FF overtaking FG as the most popular party in the country again.

    Labour are now at 9% on the opinion poll.

    Over all, the 74% of the country are unhappy with the coalition. That's Pretty poor satisfaction rating, for any govt.

    Seeing as how revenue have already stated that there will be no refunds for overpaid taxes, I'd guess that same rule will apply to anyone wanting a refund if a new govt scraps it.

    Don't say you weren't warned.


This discussion has been closed.
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