The Great Myth of St Patrick

the emperors innuendo · 16-03-2013 07:46PM #1

The great irony of St. Patricks Days is that the Christian Church was fundamental in supporting the creation of a political link between Ireland and England which had the effect of severing any sense of national identity.

If anything, the Christian Church was instrumental in supporting the destruction of Ireland's identity by supporting the invasion of Ireland. It was only after the reformation that the Catholic Church’s link with Britain began to falter and even so, the Catholic Church supported the implementation of the Act of Union in Ireland.

In Ireland’s long struggle to establish a national identity under British rule, the great irony is that the majority of the people remained faithful to an imperialist church which supported the link and at times, helped maintain the link with Britain.

St. Patrick’s Day is even more ridiculous considering that St Patrick was Welsh. What has a Welsh Christian missionary to do with being Irish? How does a Christian feast day determine what it is to be Irish? If anything, history has thought us that Christianity has served to destroy any sense of Irish national identity yet people remain steadfast in the celebration of this abomination of a feast day. Considering St. Patrick was a missionary for an imperial order, does that not make him the enemy of Ireland?

They say that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing man he did not exist. Perhaps the greatest trick St. Patrick ever played was convincing the Irish he was one of their own?

Mr. Wong · 16-03-2013 07:46PM

Did he banish your space bar?

the emperors innuendo · 16-03-2013 07:47PM

apologies for the spacebar problem, copy and paste doesn't seem to work on this

Chucken · 16-03-2013 07:49PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

apologies for the lack of spacebar problem, copy and paste doesn't seem to work on this

So the op wasnt your own work?

galwayrush · 16-03-2013 07:49PM

err, ok.

minidazzler · 16-03-2013 07:49PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

apologies for the lack of spacebar problem, copy and paste doesn't seem to work on this

So, either none of these are your words or you are spamming it across a few different websites?

Anyone · 16-03-2013 07:50PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

apologies for the lack of spacebar problem, copy and paste doesn't seem to work on this

Ah so its not even your own work.

The Pheasant · 16-03-2013 07:50PM

Does anyone actually think St. Patrick was Irish? I don't think anyone is under that delusion...you don't have to be from a country to have an influence on it

humbert · 16-03-2013 07:51PM

You might be right but if it makes you feel better I'm quite sure he's rolling in his grave on seeing what it has become.

Czarcasm · 16-03-2013 07:55PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

Perhaps the greatest trick St. Patrick ever played was convincing the Irish that he was one of their own?

Except St. Patrick for all we know of him, he was never considered one of our own. In any teachings, he is understood to have been Welsh.

The fact remains though that he is celebrated as The Patron Saint of Ireland.

A small but important distinction.

Anyone · 16-03-2013 07:56PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Except St. Patrick for all we know of him was never considered one of our own. In any teachings, he is understood to have been Welsh.

The fact remains though that he is celebrated as The Patron Saint of Ireland.

A small but important distinction.

Why is it important where he was born?

the emperors innuendo · 16-03-2013 07:57PM

I just have to type it in word because it mysteriously vanished 3 times while I was writing it

the emperors innuendo · 16-03-2013 07:57PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Except St. Patrick for all we know of him was never considered one of our own. In any teachings, he is understood to have been Welsh.

The fact remains though that he is celebrated as The Patron Saint of Ireland.

A small but important distinction.

For all religions? And who allocated him this position, the Roman Government?

Anyone · 16-03-2013 08:01PM

So OP what exactly is your gripe, it seems confused to say the least. Is it because he was Welsh, or is it because he was Christian? Or is it a bit of both?

the emperors innuendo · 16-03-2013 08:06PM

Anyone wrote: »

So OP what exactly is your gripe, it seems confused to say the least. Is it because he was Welsh, or is it because he was Christian? Or is it a bit of both?

I don't see what ST Patrick has to do with been Irish since it excludes many non Christians from establishing their claim to a national identity. Ireland was never exclusively Christian

Chucken · 16-03-2013 08:07PM

Wales are after hammering England in the Rugby...What does that tell you on St. Patricks eve op? Huh...Huh??

Fox_In_Socks · 16-03-2013 08:07PM

Space Lizards, the CIA, the Illuminatti, the International Jewish Conspiracy and now....*drumroll*

St Patrick

losthorizon · 16-03-2013 08:10PM

First the British came to Ireland years after Patrick came to Ireland a well known fact. In fairness at that time we were the ones bothering them.

Everyone knows Patricks wasnt Irish. I mean the Patron saint of England wasnt English, never visited England and maybe never even knew England existed.

He didnt slay a dragon either btw.

In Georgia he is also one of their patron saints. Have a look at their flag its virtually the same as Englands - The Cross of St George.

He was a Greek in the Roman army and probably passed through the region.

Anyone · 16-03-2013 08:10PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I don't see what ST Patrick has to do with been Irish since it excludes many non Christians from establishing their claim to a national identity

Many non christians all throughout Ireland and the world dont seem to have any issues with it. Ah well....cant keep everyone happy I guess, my only suggestion is dont celebrate the holiday.

Czarcasm · 16-03-2013 08:12PM

Anyone wrote: »

Why is it important where he was born?

It's important when the OP is trying to point out an irony that simply doesn't exist. The rest of the post is complete bunkum too, but that was the more important point to note-

Nobody ever assumed St. Patrick was Irish, and he never tried to pass himself off as Irish. He was only evr celebrated as the Patron Saint of Ireland and is accredited with bringing Christianity to Ireland.

St. Patrick isn't responsible for Catholicism, nor was he responsible for the Reformation, and British Imperialism is in no way relevant here either.

The whole OP is a load of nonsense really that tries to tie unrelated periods in history together. Tbh it wouldn't even get legs in the conspiracy forum.

foxinsox · 16-03-2013 08:17PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

St. Patrick isn't responsible for Catholicism, nor was he responsible for the Reformation, and British Imperialism is in no way relevant here either.

Snakes?

What about the snakes though?

Was he responsible for getting rid of them?

I don't like snakes anyway!

:pac:

Irish Guitarist · 16-03-2013 08:20PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

They say that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing man he did not exist. Perhaps the greatest trick St. Patrick ever played was convincing the Irish he was one of their own?

That was a crap trick really. I'm pretty sure most people know he was Welsh.

Where did you copy this article from by the way? It sounds like something an American would write so they can convince themselves that they're more Irish than people who were actually born in Ireland but whose ancestors 'only' came to Ireland about 1,000 years ago.

Czarcasm · 16-03-2013 08:27PM

foxinsox wrote: »

Snakes?

What about the snakes though?

Was he responsible for getting rid of them?

I don't like snakes anyway!

:pac:

THAT Cork DJ was trying to pass himself off as the pied piper when he was flying the snakes out of Ireland and one of them tried to escape out through the fly in his pants.

The flight attendants were having none of him waving about his staff on the plane!

the emperors innuendo · 16-03-2013 08:28PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's important when the OP is trying to point out an irony that simply doesn't exist. The rest of the post is complete bunkum too, but that was the more important point to note-

Nobody ever assumed St. Patrick was Irish, and he never tried to pass himself off as Irish. He was only evr celebrated as the Patron Saint of Ireland and is accredited with bringing Christianity to Ireland.

St. Patrick isn't responsible for Catholicism, nor was he responsible for the Reformation, and British Imperialism is in no way relevant here either.

The whole OP is a load of nonsense really that tries to tie unrelated periods in history together. Tbh it wouldn't even get legs in the conspiracy forum.

He was a representative of an imperial order. What has a representative of an imperial order got to do with being Irish, especially when that representative is Welsh?

Fox_In_Socks · 16-03-2013 08:30PM

foxinsox wrote: »

Snakes?

What about the snakes though?

Was he responsible for getting rid of them?

I don't like snakes anyway!

:pac:

They drownded in the great floods of the mid to late noughties as the celtic tiger bubble burst.

Oh Seany and Fingers Fingelton, where ye now?

orestes · 16-03-2013 08:31PM

St. Patrick is credited with introducing Christianity to Ireland in the 5th century.

The first English King of Ireland was Henry XVIII in the 16th century.

In between there was a whole load of vikings and normans and all sorts of fun and games here, the Roman Empire splits in half and collapses, the Holy Roman Empire shows up, there's a whole series of popes, anti-popes, emperors (often all three at the same time), the renaissance kicks off, Christianity gets split in half by the reformation, science starts poking sticks in the eyes of god, the Spanish Inquisition happened when nobody was expecting it, and the English executed their own king for treason.

I think you might have missed a link or two in your chain of reasoning OP.

16-03-2013 08:35PM

orestes wrote: »

The first English King of Ireland was Henry XVIII in the 16th century.

Henry the... 18th?

orestes · 16-03-2013 08:37PM

Dónal wrote: »

Henry the... 18th?

Dammit! That's what I get from learning my roman numerals from Rocky movies and Wrestlemania. Roman numeral grammar nazism, well played

Czarcasm · 16-03-2013 08:37PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

He was a representative of an imperial order. What has a representative of an imperial order got to do with being Irish, especially when that representative is Welsh?

Absolutely nothing? Nobody ever said he was Irish in the first place! At the risk of having to repeat myself- he is celebrated as the patron saint of Ireland.

It wasn't Saint Patrick himself who ingrained himself in our culture. We did that ourselves, and then as the Irish emigrated and spread throughout the world, so too did our association with Saint Patrick and the Irish identity.

Fox_In_Socks · 16-03-2013 08:37PM

Dónal wrote: »

Henry the... 18th?

Problem?
:pac:

Chucken · 16-03-2013 08:37PM

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

He was a representative of an imperial order. What has a representative of an imperial order got to do with being Irish, especially when that representative is Welsh?

When was that?

The Great Myth of St Patrick

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