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revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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Comments

  • #842
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    SamHall wrote: »
    You're a tad confused this morning.

    When was the last time you were asked to pay motor tax when renting a car?


  • #843
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Ledieux banned.

    As per last warning, civil discussion please. As this thread has previously been locked I would suspect a similar fate awaits this thread.


  • #844
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    MadsL wrote: »
    When was the last time you were asked to pay motor tax when renting a car?

    Never, but that's not what in dispute here.

    You've said.
    Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.

    Let's compare that analogy to a HP agreement on a car so.

    Except the landlord finance company leases his amenity value (vehicle) in exchange for a thing called rent HP installments, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.


    The owner is still the finance company, until the final payment made.

    Its no big deal, just pointing out that your theory was far from flawed.


  • #845
    Kichote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    MadsL wrote: »
    So you are not disputing who is liable for the tax. Thank you. Case closed.

    In some places you do pay property tax through the mortgage so the bank looks after the payment for you. Great bunch of lads that they are.

    Any comparison with motor tax is null and void because it is not an ownership tax but something you pay to use your car on the public road.


  • #846
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    You have mixed up a car lease with car rental.

    Car lease = mortgage - you pay the tax
    Car rental = renting a house - owner pays the tax.


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  • #847
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Kichote wrote: »
    In some places you do pay property tax through the mortgage so the bank looks after the payment for you. Great bunch of lads that they are.

    Any comparison with motor tax is null and void because it is not an ownership tax but something you pay to use your car on the public road.

    Where?

    I never said the property tax was an ownership tax. Read my posts properly, I said it was an amenity tax, in the case of Motor tax driving on the public roads is the amenity.


  • #848
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    MadsL wrote: »
    You have mixed up a car lease with car rental.

    Car lease = mortgage - you pay the tax
    Car rental = renting a house - owner pays the tax.

    Completely flawed argument.

    You do not own     a car taken out on HP until the final instalment has been paid.

    Regardless, you can legally own a car without taxing it.


    Silly, silly argument/comparison.

    .


  • #849
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    SamHall wrote: »
    Completely flawed argument.

    You do not own     a car taken out on HP until the final instalment has been paid.

    Regardless, you can legally own a car without taxing it.


    Silly, silly argument/comparison.

    .

    You do not discharge the charge placed on your house until the final mortgage payment has been paid.


  • #850
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    MadsL wrote: »
    You do not discharge the charge placed on your house until the final mortgage payment has been paid.

    That was never disputed.

    You brought the car ownership/rental argument to the table, not me.

    Sometimes its best to admit a particular example given to win an argument/debate was wrong.

    Your car/home ownership/rental analogy is that example.


  • #851
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    SamHall wrote: »
    That was never disputed.

    You brought the car ownership/rental argument to the table, not me.

    Sometimes its best to admit a particular example given to win an argument/debate was wrong.

    Your car/home ownership/rental analogy is that example.

    You are confused. The analogy is quite clear. Let's not clog up the thread with back and forth though.


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  • #852
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Apart from the DDI guy the people of East Meath will also have a CAHWT candidate to vote for in the guise of the Workers Party candidate. So we will see how they get on.

    http://www.workerspartyireland.net/id809.html

    To answer previous speculation about my political connections, I have none. And I never voted number 1 for any Fine Gael candidate in any election. AH opinion is actually very biased towards Sinn Fein but I would never claim that their volunteers posting on these threads are being paid by the party.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=21357


  • #853
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MadsL
    Exiled


    Join Date: Feb 2003
    Location: 570 miles from Vegas that way, 123 miles that way!
    Posts: 9,135
    Adverts | Friends
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bullseye1
    How is my bolded quote attributing blame for our problems on those who rented? It is commentary on people who continuously blame those who have bought for the problem by those who did not buy. Maybe you should read it again.

    Perhaps you can explain to me how those who did not buy are at fault? If you are complaining that those attribute the fault to those whose bought, then they must also be at fault, please explain how they contributed.

    This does not make any kind of sense.
    You are blaming people for buying houses to live in. People need houses to live in. Not everyone can rent because there would not have been enough
    houses and they would have been at the mercy of owners who set the rent.

    The developers, bankers and government set the trend by deciding prices, interest rates, stamp duty etc. That had nothing to do with the buyers who were at their mercy and who were bombarded with offers particularly from the bankers.


  • #854
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You are blaming people for buying houses to live in. People need houses to live in. Not everyone can rent because there would not have been enough houses and they would have been at the mercy of owners who set the rent.

    I'm not blaming people for buying houses, I'm taking issue with those who whinge about being able to afford a property tax when they own a house, and usually negative equity is trotted out too. I guess as well as not seeing the crash, they also didn't see the inevitability of property taxes in Ireland.
    The developers, bankers and government set the trend by deciding prices, interest rates, stamp duty etc. That had nothing to do with the buyers who were at their mercy and who were bombarded with offers particularly from the bankers.

    I have been bombarded with cash 4 gold offers, at the 'mercy' of their rates. I'd be an idiot to sell it though at those rates.

    No-one was at the mercy of anyone when buying property, they simply bought into the hype and failed to do a simple calculation about the true value of property.


  • #855
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MadsL wrote: »
    I'm not blaming people for buying houses, I'm taking issue with those who whinge about being able to afford a property tax when they own a house, and usually negative equity is trotted out too. I guess as well as not seeing the crash, they also didn't see the inevitability of property taxes in Ireland.



    I have been bombarded with cash 4 gold offers, at the 'mercy' of their rates. I'd be an idiot to sell it though at those rates.

    No-one was at the mercy of anyone when buying property, they simply bought into the hype and failed to do a simple calculation about the true value of property.

    I was bombarded with offers of additions and top-ups to my mortgage, money to build extensions, car loans etc. I could paper a wall with them. The old "money will never be this cheap again" argument was constantly spouted by these people. The Government played a big part in it too.
    I didn't bite but I can see how many less shrewd people did. Remember the 100% loans?
    These people brainwashed young couples and remind me of the Moonies.

    Whether you took up their offers or not you would end up paying anyway as the burden after the crash fell on the same people. Your money either contributed to the Banks then or you ended up bailing them out later anyway.
    The very same people.

    Now they are being asked, sorry told, yet again to pay up with these new taxes. Nothing changes in Ireland.


  • #856
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I was bombarded with offers of additions and top-ups to my mortgage, money to build extensions, car loans etc. I could paper a wall with them. The old "money will never be this cheap again" argument was constantly spouted by these people. The Government played a big part in it too.
    I didn't bite but I can see how many less shrewd people did. Remember the 100% loans?
    These people brainwashed young couples and remind me of the Moonies.

    Whether you took up their offers or not you would end up paying anyway as the burden after the crash fell on the same people. Your money either contributed to the Banks then or you ended up bailing them out later anyway.
    The very same people.

    No-one was forced to take out a mortgage. Not one person.
    Now they are being asked, sorry told, yet again to pay up with these new taxes. Nothing changes in Ireland.

    What have you done to try to bring change? Did you attempt to stop the bank guarantee? Did you email TDs? Protest on the streets?

    Bit late to be complaining now, tbh.


  • #857
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    What Tayto said.

    As the govt say though, that inherited the whole thing from the last govt, and that 'they're merely cleaning up their mess'

    What they continually forget to mention though, is that they stood on the sidelines, complaining that FF/greens etc weren't spending enough!

    To sum it up, if they'd have been in power during the boom, its likely a bigger mess we'd now be in.

    For the record, I hold both parties in equal contempt, and am looking forward to a representative from either party to call to my front door.


  • #858
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Just a quick aside to note that...
    SamHall wrote:
    Vote for Ben Gilroy in the east Meath buy election.

    Ben seems to have let his Freeman peddling website domain lapse.

    www.peopleforeconomicjustice.com

    Expired yesterday. Not the sharpest tool in the shed then.


  • #859
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MadsL wrote: »
    No-one was forced to take out a mortgage. Not one person.



    What have you done to try to bring change? Did you attempt to stop the bank guarantee? Did you email TDs? Protest on the streets?

    Bit late to be complaining now, tbh.

    I have explained how I feel about the whole sorry mess.
    I did indeed protest locally and through e-mail. I attended protests too.
    It is never too late to complain and I will continue to complain on my own behalf, my children's behalf and my grandchildren's behalf none of whom took part in the ruination of the country but who will be expected to pay the 56k that each of them apparently owe for the doings of the people you seem to be standing up for.

    You come across to me as being a bit arrogant, sorry if i'm wrong.


  • #860
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    MadsL wrote: »
    Just a quick aside to note that...



    Ben seems to have let his Freeman peddling website domain lapse.

    www.peopleforeconomicjustice.com

    Expired yesterday. Not the sharpest tool in the shed then.

    Maybe he missed a payment and the HP company took it back?

    Where did you get the link posted? How is that site connected to him?


  • #861
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    SamHall wrote: »
    Maybe he missed a payment and the HP company took it back?

    Where did you get the link posted? How is that site connected to him?

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9uHKCyUNJuAJ:https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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  • #862
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    MadsL wrote: »
    As I suspected, even though you live there (some weird right to have an opinion based on your address in your view) and have listed a whole bunch of grievances - you actually haven't even sent one email to try and change things have you?? And yet you expect change. :(

    Do you intend ever coming back?


  • #863
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Do you intend ever coming back?

    What has that to do with anything? However, I don't particularly want to come back and pay off a debt I had no hand in creating.


  • #864
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    MadsL wrote: »
    What have you done to try to bring change? Did you attempt to stop the bank guarantee? Did you email TDs? Protest on the streets?
    All you seem to have done is run away crying its not your fault.

    Bit late to be complaining now, tbh.
    Posting to yourself, is a sign of madness


  • #865
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Bruthal wrote: »
    All you seem to have done is run away crying its not your fault.

    Run away? Are you having a laugh, do you think leaving a teenage daughter behind was a decision taken lightly. My wife spent 18 months and made over 500 job applications, we would have gone broke had we stayed. I only trust that I can get her a US passport and a better life than paying off the previous generations fuckups.




    Posting to yourself, is a sign of madness

    Cheap shot, poor effort.


  • #866
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    MadsL wrote: »
    Run away? Are you having a laugh, do you think leaving a teenage daughter behind was a decision taken lightly. My wife spent 18 months and made over 500 job applications, we would have gone broke had we stayed. I only trust that I can get her a US passport and a better life than paying off the previous generations fuckups.







    Cheap shot, poor effort.

    You are the one blaming everyone else. Simple as that. Plenty who bought homes are not to blame. And are still here.


  • #867
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You come across to me as being a bit arrogant, sorry if i'm wrong.

    I dont think you are. We bought a home, so it is all our fault he had to leave.


  • #868
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Bruthal wrote: »
    You are the one blaming everyone else. Simple as that. Plenty who bought homes are not to blame. And are still here.
    Bruthal wrote: »
    I dont think you are. We bought a home, so it is all our fault he had to leave.

    The property bubble caused the crash to be much worse in Ireland, are you suggesting that people who bought during the boom at unaffordable, unrealistic prices, who are now facing repossession did not contribute to the mess?

    That your stance?


  • #869
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Apart from the DDI guy the people of East Meath will also have a CAHWT candidate to vote for in the guise of the Workers Party candidate. So we will see how they get on.

    http://www.workerspartyireland.net/id809.html

    To answer previous speculation about my political connections, I have none. And I never voted number 1 for any Fine Gael candidate in any election. AH opinion is actually very biased towards Sinn Fein but I would never claim that their volunteers posting on these threads are being paid by the party.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=21357

    The upcoming bye election in meath it remains to be seen whether we will see a vote against current government policy or a vote for sympathy in voting for helen mcentee-the youtube video promoting her as the fine gael canditate she mentions her father more then anything else-she might as well have said in honour of my fathers memory vote for me which is very cynical and manipulative-one recent week in politics show when discussing the meath bye election helen was mentioned most more so then any other canditate.






  • #870
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    MadsL wrote: »
    The property bubble caused the crash to be much worse in Ireland, are you suggesting that people who bought during the boom at unaffordable, unrealistic prices, who are now facing repossession did not contribute to the mess?

    That your stance?

    My stance is, there are plenty not to blame in this, not just you. Most dont seem to have a large chip on their shoulder, probably to an anger level, against people who payed to much for homes.

    Since you ask this type of question so often, what did you do to save the country from individuals buying an over priced home?

    Did you try to advise the government, who clearly could have done something? Or did you do as you are doing now, nothing except point the finger at everyone else?

    Or is it only in hindsight that you realise that paying to much for something would cause you to need to leave?


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  • #871
    Kichote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    you'd need a tractor to get me off her. Not an ould massey on its last legs but a brand new John Deere on tracks.


This discussion has been closed.
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