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Drones for PSNI

  • 15-03-2013 09:34PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭


    15 MARCH 2013

    The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) is expected to buy two drones for the G8 summit in County Fermanagh in June, it emerged tonight.

    The aircraft can relay live pictures from high quality cameras and are flown by operators remotely.

    They could cost around €1.2m, it was reported.

    World leaders like US President Barack Obama are expected to attend this summer's economic gathering, and a massive security operation is planned at the luxury Lough Erne golf resort which will host the conference.

    The PSNI has told the Policing Board it wants to buy the drones for use during the G8 summit and afterwards to combat terrorism and crime, the BBC said.

    The Board has to be briefed in advance about any planned purchase or deployment and that briefing will take place next week.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/psni-to-buy-two-hightech-spy-drones-ahead-of-g8-summit-29133546.html


    Gosh! I'm not so sure me likey the way things are going? Do we already have drones surveying this island? I ahve heard sneaky tales that they may be used to compensate for closures of police stations..


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Welcome to AfIrishstan ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ...but what fleg will they fly?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,730 ✭✭✭✭CianRyan


    What came to my mind?
    "Cool!"

    I don't see anything wrong with it really, there's already cameras everywhere so it's no different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    The rapid advance in the technology means the cost of civilian drones has dropped to as little as €250. They can even be 'flown' via a smartphone.

    Drones can be used for farm and forestry monitoring or even for aerial surveys of houses for property tax, one industry source confirmed.

    They are also being used in the North to monitor larch trees, but could be used in future to snoop on farmers claiming too much in EU farm subsidies.

    A Department of Agriculture spokeswoman in Dublin told the Herald that, while they are aware of developments in the field, "this Department does not propose to use the drone technology at the moment".

    The Irish Aviation Authority confirmed that it has licensed eight users to operate unmanned aerial systems (UAS) or remotely piloted aircraft systems. All weigh less than 150kg.
    http://www.herald.ie/news/rise-of-the-drones-29088035.html


    I think this is interesting as a development. I live in a proposed fracking zone....which is being heavily resisted (Thankfully). I don't like the idea of these unmanned spies in the skies...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    1984. Only in 2013.


    Whoever agrees to operate these social abominations is a cnut in my eyes .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


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    Starting in 2015, the skies above the United States will become infiltrated by a rare creature: drones. Also known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), drones are currently forbidden from flying in U.S. airspace above 400 feet, unless the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) provides a license. But thanks to a bill passed by Congress early this year to make these licenses easier to get, drones will likely become a part of everyday life for Americans.

    While fun and futuristic, this coming reality unearths serious questions about privacy and personal liberty in the 21st century. A report published last week by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) shows that our laws are currently unprepared to deal with the privacy implications posed by the use of drones. The report (pdf) is an excellent read — at least if you’re a wonk like me. But if you don’t have time to peruse a 20-page CRS report, here are the 13 things you must know about the looming drone privacy apocalypse.

    1. There will be 30,000 drones in the sky in less than 20 years



    The FAA estimates (pdf) that within the next 15 years, more than 20,000 drones will take to the skies in the U.S., including drones operated by police, military, public health and safety agencies, corporations, and the public in general. That number is expected to jump to 30,000 within 20 years from today — a number the FAA refers to as “relatively small.” Currently, the FAA has only given out about 300 licenses to fly drones capable of cruising at more than 400 feet in the air.

    2. Matters of privacy are all about “reasonableness”



    The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees our right against “unreasonable searches and seizures.” The key word here is “unreasonable” — and thanks to our rapidly changing technologies, its definition is in near-constant flux.

    CRS researcher and legislative attorney Richard M. Thompson II, who authored the report on drones, explains in the report that “the reasonableness of drone surveillance [as considered by the courts] would likely be informed by location of the search, the sophistication of the technology used, and society’s conception of privacy in an age of rapid technological advancement.”

    It’s this last part — “society’s conception of privacy” — that you should worry about on a daily basis, as it applies to the use of information gathered by everything from drones flying over our back yards to GPS capabilities in our smartphones to our Facebook profiles. Once society becomes generally “OK” with certain information becoming public, or becoming public in a certain way — once we think of these things as “reasonable — the Fourth Amendment protects us less.

    3. The Fourth Amendment: It depends what the definition of “search” is



    As with what can be considered “reasonable,” the definition of what constitutes a “search” under the Fourth Amendment is a slippery beast. The Fourth Amendment provides for little wiggle room when it comes to activities performed in your home, behind closed doors and curtained windows. (No searches without a warrant there — most of the time, anyway.) But as soon as you leave the confines of your house, things start getting more complicated — and things get even worse when you consider surveillance that uses planes and helicopters. Throw drones in the mix and, well, the fine line across which surveillance by the state becomes “search” gets downright knotty.

    Thompson’s CRS report explains that a court reviewing the use of drones under the Fourth Amendment will have to consider past cases that involved “privacy in the home, privacy in public spaces, location tracking, manned aerial surveillance, those involving the national border,” and instances when warrants aren’t needed to perform a “routine” search (like searching a car at a U.S. border), to determine the definition of a “search.”

    4. Drones will have the ability to see through walls and ceilings



    Thanks to technology like the Xaver 800 from Camero, which uses electromagnetic radar to construct 3D images of hidden objects, law enforcement and military personnel can now “see” through walls. Combine this with laser radar and thermal imaging techniques, and our homes practically have glass walls, as far as the police are concerned. Thompson estimates that similar technology will eventually be outfitted on drones, allowing them to see through ceilings and walls. The question before the courts will be: Without a warrant, is that reasonable?



    Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/drones-congressional-research-service-report/#ixzz2NdwIJrp2
    Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook


    This is just for those who think drones might be ''cool''......I don't know about you but i like my private life to be..er..well...private :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Aren't they just cost effective replacements for the helicopters that normally fly over the G8? Quieter too, I'd hope.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    The technical sophistication and ability of such craft to stay airborne for lengthy periods of time combined with the ability to mount general surveillance of the population could be used to infringe on fundamental privacy rights, opponents say.
    With drones the size of hummingbirds already available new capabilities are emerging all the time.
    High-quality camera equipment capable of advanced thermal and infra-red imaging can see through walls and the technology exists for them to use facial recognition technology to track individuals based on their physical attributes.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/technology/drone-market-set-for-take-off-but-laws-governing-their-use-hit-turbulence-1.1251994


    Well....whatever...but I just don't like it. I'm not saying very much can be done about it at this stage...but it is fairly Orwellian...imo


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That price is LOLtastic. I love how it was mentioned within a few minutes of Britain and France wanting the arms embargo on Syria lifted. I'm an awful cynic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭Duff


    Would it not be cheaper to get a remote control air plane and a handycam?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Duff wrote: »
    Would it not be cheaper to get a remote control air plane and a handycam?
    Or a guy on a particularly tall pair of stilts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    humanji wrote: »
    Aren't they just cost effective replacements for the helicopters that normally fly over the G8? Quieter too, I'd hope.

    Possibly. :)

    I also think however that an extension of the civilian application of such technologies will see us lose our freedoms of political association and resistance at some stage in the future..........silently hovering drones listening and watching beyond the walls...Hmmmm...me no likey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    humanji wrote: »
    Aren't they just cost effective replacements for the helicopters that normally fly over the G8? Quieter too, I'd hope.

    Some of these yokes are the size of a packet of fags, can camp outside your gaff for weeks, get programmed to report certain things only. Or can just up and decide to kill you.

    They're at best the equivalent of clampers and at worst the equivalent of schizophrenic terrorists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    It's basically just a flying camera.. don't see the big deal myself tbh.. and I'm usually fairly weary of Orwellian type stuff.

    They're going to be spending a ****load of money on security anyway. If not on drones then on thousands of temporary CCTV systems which do the very same thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    It's basically just a flying camera.. don't see the big deal myself tbh.. and I'm usually fairly weary of Orwellian type stuff.

    They're going to be spending a ****load of money on security anyway. If not on drones then on thousands of temporary CCTV systems which do the very same thing.

    well..afterwards they plan to use them to combat terrorism and crime. i have also seen it suggested that south of the border they could be used to compensate for lack of police stations etc...

    I think they are a shyte idea. I don't like the thoughts of them at al...b ut i think there is probably little we can do about them.

    Having said that ..IF they are to be a part of our future then there must be at least a reasonable debate about strict regulation of such technology that is very likely to infringe civil liberties....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    15 MARCH 2013

    The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) is expected to buy two drones for the G8 summit in County Fermanagh in June, it emerged tonight.

    Surely there are enough drones in the PSNI already?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    i have also seen it suggested that south of the border they could be used to compensate for lack of police stations etc...

    They should see about getting them equipped with lots of these, no more of this pussyfooting around with joyriders and burglers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    It's basically just a flying camera..

    Flying cameras are flying cameras. It's not like these yokes are going to be operated by some Indian call centre or a Police officer from down the local station.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    squod wrote: »
    Some of these yokes are the size of a packet of fags, can camp outside your gaff for weeks, get programmed to report certain things only. Or can just up and decide to kill you.

    They're at best the equivalent of clampers and at worst the equivalent of schizophrenic terrorists.
    But that's a slippery slope argument. It amounts to little more than scaremongering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Fair Enough :)

    I guess from the tenor of the replies that I am about the only one who sees the enormous potential here for loss of civil liberties. No problem. Back to sleep. Sorry to mention it. Nothing to ''see'' here.......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Fair Enough :)

    I guess from the tenor of the replies that I am about the only one who sees the enormous potential here for loss of civil liberties. No problem. Back to sleep. Sorry to mention it. Nothing to ''see'' here.......
    Well there's nothing wrong with being aware of their potential. But assuming that they must eventually be put into use to watch us 24/7 and/or kill us, is a bit of a jump.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    Fair Enough :)

    I guess from the tenor of the replies that I am about the only one who sees the enormous potential here for loss of civil liberties. No problem. Back to sleep. Sorry to mention it. Nothing to ''see'' here.......

    Could you explain to me exactly what civil liberties you think we're likely to loose? I don't see any of this as an issue as I don't really have anything to hide....I admit to some questionable porn viewing on occasion but that's hardly something the powers that be are likely to pursue.

    Even if these things are going to be quite so prolific as some seem to think they won't stop you doing anything you're doing now. Unless of course it's illegal in which case that should be applauded no?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    humanji wrote: »
    Well there's nothing wrong with being aware of their potential. But assuming that they must eventually be put into use to watch us 24/7 and/or kill us, is a bit of a jump.

    No. I never suggested that.....I am not a conspiracytard

    But i do suggest that if for example i became involved in anti-fracking local politics (just as an example)....how easy it would be with this technology to keep an eye on my tactics and opinions etc....

    All very fine, as long as the government is doing everything you agree with. But what happens when someday they do something you wish to agitate against?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Fair Enough :)

    I guess from the tenor of the replies that I am about the only one who sees the enormous potential here for loss of civil liberties. No problem. Back to sleep. Sorry to mention it. Nothing to ''see'' here.......

    There was a potential when the phone was invented, or the public mail service.

    It's no worse than a helicopter flying over head. Less noisy, cheaper. And probably safer too.

    It's just technology replacing a function that a human used to do.

    You get many helicopters observing you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    squod wrote: »
    Some of these yokes are the size of a packet of fags, can camp outside your gaff for weeks, get programmed to report certain things only. Or can just up and decide to kill you.

    They're at best the equivalent of clampers and at worst the equivalent of schizophrenic terrorists.

    Its ok , pal , I've got it all sorted for you.

    https://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&authuser=0&biw=800&bih=485&q=tin+foil+hat&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYhpgCxCo1NgEGgYIFwg9CEIMCxCwjKcIGjUKMwgBEg1QUVJnSN4D4wPXA0RAGiCguTaUHbhEFfanpfpoZOZJmUzWB9Jla8CzfK39eXXbaAwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBOwrikEM&ei=JZFDUan-Leev7AaiyIHwCw&ved=0CCMQwg4


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    wexie wrote: »
    Could you explain to me exactly what civil liberties you think we're likely to loose? I don't see any of this as an issue as I don't really have anything to hide....I admit to some questionable porn viewing on occasion but that's hardly something the powers that be are likely to pursue.

    Even if these things are going to be quite so prolific as some seem to think they won't stop you doing anything you're doing now. Unless of course it's illegal in which case that should be applauded no?

    How about the right to free association? The right to religious privacy? The right to have sex in my garden? The right to walk around naked? The right to think and speak anti-establishment opinions? The right to be a private human being? Just for starters


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    How about the right to free association? The right to religious privacy? The right to have sex in my garden? The right to walk around naked? The right to think and speak anti-establishment opinions? The right to be a private human being? Just for starters
    And you're just assuming the worst case scenario. You're assuming it'll be abused. It's a possibility, but not a certainty. Your ignoring all positive aspects and concentrating on only the extreme negatives.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    How about the right to free association? The right to religious privacy? The right to have sex in my garden? The right to walk around naked? The right to think and speak anti-establishment opinions? The right to be a private human being? Just for starters

    You'll still have all those rights.....

    Some serious leap of 'logic' you're making that the PSNI / AGS using drones some how equates you not being able to walk around stark bollock naked (in private) when you feel like it, or associate who and when you feel like.

    Believe it or not it's entirely possible (likely even) that these things might just be used for the purposes of good? You know...spotting illegal dumping, tracking people that need tracking, environmental surveys...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Grayson wrote: »
    There was a potential when the phone was invented, or the public mail service.

    It's no worse than a helicopter flying over head. Less noisy, cheaper. And probably safer too.

    It's just technology replacing a function that a human used to do.

    You get many helicopters observing you?

    Wrong.
    Sorry :)
    A phone can only ''reach'' you by invitation. Likewise mail. i have to agree to be part of the transaction.

    It is not the same as a helicopter. A drone can hover for long periods of time..if you had a helicopter hovering over your back yard for any significant portion of time surely to goodness you might think wtf and query it....

    I live on the border. Helicopters monitoring are not unknown. Used to be extremely common in fact.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    wexie wrote: »
    I don't see any of this as an issue as I don't really have anything to hide

    You would say that.. all tucked up nice and cozy behind a pseudonym!


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