revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

darkhorse · 14-03-2013 11:26PM

seamus wrote: »

Right. Any reason why you haven't gone to the government with details?

I have this one, Well, seamus, we sorta mentioned it to some of the govt TDs.
I think one of them might have mentioned it in the big blue house. Have to get back to ya on who it might have been.

Oh yeah, it was Peter Matthews.

username123 · 14-03-2013 11:28PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If people have more money for income tax then they must have money for property tax unless they are all renting. One good thing about property tax is that it hits the rich in their mansions who may be able to evade other taxes. I wouldn't have criminalised myself for a tax of €100 covering 18 months (€1.50 a week) and I think anyone who did is foolish both legally and financially.

eh, the rich are being protected with the tax not being charged on more than 1 acre!

MadsL · 14-03-2013 11:31PM

username123 wrote: »

Theyll never be able to pay it plus interest and penalties and it will be taken from their estate after they die. So the government will be grave-robbing.

Is there no end to this hyperbole? I suppose you regard most taxes as some form of theft.

dxhound2005 · 14-03-2013 11:31PM

username123 wrote: »

Most cases of deferral will be with circumstances that dont change because it will overwhelmingly be older retired people on state pensions who have the kind of low incomes that will fall into the deferral bracket. In younger folk one or both may be working.

Theyll never be able to pay it plus interest and penalties and it will be taken from their estate after they die. So the government will be grave-robbing.

Incidentally, deferral at an interest rate of 4% may well be unconstitutional, as the government will be engaging in a form of money lending, so its quite likely it will lead to a constitutional challenge.

Given the very generous level of pensions in this country and the fact that the retired people will overwhelmingly have no mortgage to pay it shouldn't really be difficult in many cases. People tend to get richer as they get older and it would be a foolish person who arrived at retirement with nothing but the state pension to live on while being the owner outright of a private house.

Did you read through the act to form your interesting legal opinion?

bgrizzley · 14-03-2013 11:31PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If people have more money for income tax then they must have money for property tax unless they are all renting. One good thing about property tax is that it hits the rich in their mansions who may be able to evade other taxes. I wouldn't have criminalised myself for a tax of €100 covering 18 months (€1.50 a week) and I think anyone who did is foolish both legally and financially.

Didnt FG exempt anything over an acre? i think that covers most of their buddies:rolleyes:

EDIT
beat to the punch;)

Bruthal · 14-03-2013 11:36PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I wouldn't have criminalised myself for a tax of €100 covering 18 months (€1.50 a week) and I think anyone who did is foolish both legally and financially.

You might have if you had been in certain circumstances. But many cant see beyond their own comfort zone.

dxhound2005 · 14-03-2013 11:37PM

username123 wrote: »

eh, the rich are being protected with the tax not being charged on more than 1 acre!

Not as much as in the North under Sinn Fein where there is an upper limit of £400,000. People with houses worth millions pay the same as a person with a house worth £400,000. And they give allowances to landlords for their non family home. Here there is no upper limit, in fact houses worth over €1 million pay a higher percentage.

Banjo String · 14-03-2013 11:56PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not as much as in the North under Sinn Fein where there is an upper limit of £400,000. People with houses worth millions pay the same as a person with a house worth £400,000. And they give allowances to landlords for their non family home. Here there is no upper limit, in fact houses worth over €1 million pay a higher percentage.

Under SF

Please.clarify, I thought they were junior partners in a coalition, relatively new partners at that.

Unless of course the DUP have abandoned govt.

darkhorse · 14-03-2013 11:59PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Pointless discussion really. If you're liable there is no way to avoid paying it.

Yaker, do ya ever wonder where is all the tax money going? Don't say services, unless where you live is an exeption.

MadYaker · 15-03-2013 12:31AM

darkhorse wrote: »

Yaker, do ya ever wonder where is all the tax money going? Don't say services, unless where you live is an exeption.

Its going to plug the massive hole in our public finances and to pay back all the money we got in the bailout. Along with all the other taxes they have brought in.

Anybody who expects to see a return in services is delusional.

And tayto lover, I have to ask, do you honestly believe that the government is paying people to post in this thread in support of this tax??? I hope for your sake that its a failed attempt at trolling. Although this dxhound2005 guy seems to be awfully fond of FG I doubt they're actually paying him to post here.

Also, I have been renting for the last couple of years and bar some miracle, like winning the lotto, I don't think I'll ever buy a house in this country.

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 12:40AM

SamHall wrote: »

If the govt/revenue steal the money from accounts (and it will be stealing, make no bones about that) it can quite easily (and legally) be denied from them in many other ways.

I for one plan to up my six county shopping trips by one hundred percent. (there's a big chunk of vat/excise duties denied to them)

Cash transactions, ofttimes result in discounts too btw.

We are finished from last month, along with another 64 households in our small estate, shopping in the South, Sam. Now, we are only 4 minutes drive from the border, so travel is not the issue. I remember when we did go into the north shopping once or twice, seeing all the southern reg cars, and things were'nt too bad financially at that time, but I will be honest with you, we decided to stay and shop local, in order to support local retail business, and I regret to have to say that the time for patriotism is over, and its down to our government for taking so much money from us that we have less and less to spend in our economy. I said it before when things were a bit better, and it has come to it now, that a tax and a charge too far is really going to tear the arse out of this economy, because VAT returns are going to suffer big time, as the govt drive people across the border to shop. I think the government are really going to regret this.

MadYaker · 15-03-2013 12:47AM

"I don't want to pay more tax, but I'm going to pay it anyway and then do my shopping up north. That'll teach them! Nevermind the extra money I'm going to spend on fuel, I'd rather give my money to the government in the U.K than pay my taxes here and help get us out of this mess"

You guys may think you're sticking it to the man but in reality all your doing is slowing the recovery process and dragging it out and forcing the government to find other ways to take money off you. I'm not some government shill I'm just trying to get my views across.

Bullseye1 · 15-03-2013 12:54AM

I agree with you. It is pointless shopping up the north to punish the government. All your doing is hurting retail in this country and putting further jobs at risk. These are our brothers/sisters/parents/friends working in these jobs. No matter how bad it gets shop local.

Am Chile · 15-03-2013 01:08AM

I see from facebook a new group calling itself attack the tax-look like they re planning to bring a court challenge over the property tax-I mightnt know too much about this group at the moment-but any court challenges brought forward I welcome.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=145125842323345&set=a.107199099449353.17737.100004777892525&type=1&theater

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 01:14AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Again, you have to compare this against alternative measures where you may have no alternative but to pay up.

You aren't necessarily passing it on to your family. You can discharge it at any time, such as a few years down the road.

There's only one big hole in you scenario. When the government deemed that the people that cant pay because of their inability to pay, deferal not withstanding, but if the economy stays as is for the next 20 years, that would mean the same people with the inability to pay, is not only screwed, but whoever takes on the family home is also screwed. Not to mention all the stress and worry of having said bill as a milestone around ones neck, very depressing for some people, I would imagine. I suppose you read the papers, you know where depression can lead.

dxhound2005 · 15-03-2013 01:32AM

Am Chile wrote: »

I see from facebook a new group calling itself attack the tax-look like they re planning to bring a court challenge over the property tax-I mightnt know too much about this group at the moment-but any court challenges brought forward I welcome.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=145125842323345&set=a.107199099449353.17737.100004777892525&type=1&theater

This is from their website:

Despite what the bar-room experts and the so called legal eagles say;
the Household Charge and the Property Tax is Illegal, Unlawful and Unconstutional,
and does NOT have to be paid, unless you consciously consent/agree to paying it.

It is NOT Mandatory to Declare or to Pay for the Household Charge or the Property Tax. Anyone that
says anything to the contrary is either a legal imbicile, or a liar or both.

I am not a legal eagle, bar-room or otherwise but I call this claptrap of the highest order. Nothing will come of it. Anyway weren't CAHWT and Eirigi and the Socialist Workers Party going to smash the tax, do we need another group?

MadYaker · 15-03-2013 01:33AM

darkhorse wrote: »

There's only one big hole in you scenario. When the government deemed that the people that cant pay because of their inability to pay, deferal not withstanding, but if the economy stays as is for the next 20 years, that would mean the same people with the inability to pay, is not only screwed, but whoever takes on the family home is also screwed. Not to mention all the stress and worry of having said bill as a milestone around ones neck, very depressing for some people, I would imagine. I suppose you read the papers, you know where depression can lead.

Ya but the economy won't be staying as it is now for the next 20 years. There were tentative signs of growth at the end of last year, and modest growth is predicted again this year, and that's not just our government saying that.

But you're right the psychological impacts of insurmountable debt shouldn't be ignored.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is from their website:

Despite what the bar-room experts and the so called legal eagles say;
the Household Charge and the Property Tax is Illegal, Unlawful and Unconstutional,
and does NOT have to be paid, unless you consciously consent/agree to paying it.

It is NOT Mandatory to Declare or to Pay for the Household Charge or the Property Tax. Anyone that
says anything to the contrary is either a legal imbicile, or a liar or both.

I am not a legal eagle, bar-room or otherwise but I call this claptrap of the highest order. Nothing will come of it. Anyway weren't CAHWT and Eirigi and the Socialist Workers Party going to smash the tax, do we need another group?

These sound like the same morons who raised their ignorant heads when the HHC was announced. All they are doing is leading gullible people into trouble and giving misinformed people false hope. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to pay a fee to join their "movement", con artists is all they are.

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 01:41AM

bgrizzley wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/deferring-payment.html

15k for a single person 25k for couple.

Thank's, grizz, but if you keep answering all the questions that I put to the class, the rest of the class are never going to learn that they will have to research it themselves.:p

squod · 15-03-2013 01:46AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I am not a legal eagle, bar-room or otherwise but I call this claptrap of the highest order. Nothing will come of it. Anyway weren't CAHWT and Eirigi and the Socialist Workers Party going to smash the tax, do we need another group?

Property taxes have never worked so far in this country. Were mostly ignored by the majority and just because the government are getting more compliance for now doesn't mean that trend will continue over time.

You're basing your belief that this tax will be a success because of some big bad wolf. Some peoples fear of revenue commissioners. That'll pass. How many people risk losing their licences while they drive around with a mobile to their ears?

I'll give it two years. By then this shower will be off anyway. Retiring on the back of your labour. Giving you the fingers on the way out the door.

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 01:58AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe, but partially. The thing is I do actually favour some sort of a property tax, but based on the ability to pay. So I would exclude those who can't. I wouldn't saddle them with the utter bullshít that is deferral. I'd include those who have already paid, often handsomely those who've lobbed out thousands on stamp duty for example. I'd exclude those folks who are in mortgage arrears for longer than six months. Or if they still want their pound of flesh give groups like that a significantly lower tax band that they may be able to pay. EG I have no mortgage. My neighbour has and is really struggling in arrears after losing his job. I don't have three kids to support, he does. I dont have the bank ringing me at all hours hounding me for payment I don't have and adding monthly penalties to the already growing arrears, he does. We'll both be asked to pay the same. How the glorified fcuk is that equitable? I'll give you a hint, its not.

No, Wibbs, totally. Unlike you, I do not, under any circumstances agree with a tax on my home, even if I ever get my mortgage paid, purely for moral reasons. As I said, if they, the theives, were to put a token tax on my home of €1, even if I was a millionaire, it would not change my mindset in that area.
If I did ever agree to such a vile tax, putting it on peoples shoulders in the worst economic circumstances that so many homeowners find themselves in, is just evil, piling debt on top of debt to the most vunerable of people, which is what brought about a lot of the problems that we find ourselves in. Anyway, I have'nt enough drink on me to keep talking.

MadYaker · 15-03-2013 01:58AM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

MY, You have not answered my question, and seems You are avoiding answering it.

How do You know that revenue won't be knocking on doors? Message #546 om page 37.

For me, You have an awful habit of making statements, but can't back them up. If You can, then PLEASE supply answers!

Sorry I missed this, I'll answer now. It's been explained here ad infinitum and by Michael Noonan in multiple interviews over the past few months. If you refuse to pay the government will use an attachment order to deduct the payment from your social welfare or salary payments. They will take it from your paycheck before it goes into your bank account. They will also be coming after everyone who hasn't yet payed the HHC and the late payment penalties they have incurred by refusing to pay it.

Revenue have many of taking ways of taking money from us, all backed up by legislation, doesn't matter if you're unemployed, self employed or working for a multinational. You will pay this in one form or another if you're liable.

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 02:05AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Nobody should pay a tax on THEIR own private home no matter what.

They will just have to come up with an alternative way to raise revenue.
People will always rebel against an attack on their private residence.

What I'd like to know is:

IF ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE IN DEBT, WHERE DID ALL THE MONEY GO.

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 02:13AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Only if your circumstances never change.

Just remember, if it gets that far, there's no point in asking the Grandchildren for a digout, as they'll be to busy paying the debts that we already foisted on them.

heartseeker · 15-03-2013 02:17AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not as much as in the North under Sinn Fein where there is an upper limit of £400,000. People with houses worth millions pay the same as a person with a house worth £400,000. And they give allowances to landlords for their non family home. Here there is no upper limit, in fact houses worth over €1 million pay a higher percentage.

DX hound you just dont get it with your stupid pointless comparisons with the north.We dont care about any fake attempts to compare like with like when everyone knows were getting screwed alot more than the North and other European counterparts.At least they get something for paying their tax.Here its just daylight robbery for incompetent and greedy politicians and bankers.Your pathetic attempts to quell the injustice of this tax will be exposed when we the people take back this country.You are shameful in your defence of greed and impoverishing of the Irish people.Its not even a case anymore of people choosing not to give.THE PEOPLE DON'T EVEN HAVE IT TO GIVE ANYMORE,THEREs NOTHING LEFT TO GIVE ONLY THEIR LIVES ....hence the alarming increase of suicides.The thieves in the night will wake up and realise what they have done when the people fight back on this one.You included.Enslaving the Irish people is unforgivable and its time to stand up and be counted shoulder to shoulder with the Greeks,the Spanish and the Italian people by taking to the streets outside of the DAIL.Only then will the lies,deceit,dishonesty and corruption be set free with the truth set upon them.

squod · 15-03-2013 02:17AM

darkhorse wrote: »

What I'd like to know is:

IF ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE IN DEBT, WHERE DID ALL THE MONEY GO.

http://thepoliticsofdebt.com/2007/11/21/less-power-to-the-people/

If this all seems like hippie non-sense then have a think about why the Brits are up in arms over Amazon, Facebook and e-bay dodging taxes and basically fuhking off with more cash than some countries make in GDP.

darkhorse · 15-03-2013 02:20AM

MadsL wrote: »

Is there no end to this hyperbole? I suppose you regard most taxes as some form of theft.

No, just a tax on the family home that has already cost a small fortune to pay for, insure and maintain, and counting.

MadsL · 15-03-2013 04:10AM

darkhorse wrote: »

No, just a tax on the family home that has already cost a small fortune to pay for, insure and maintain, and counting.

Then why did you not rent instead of paying a "small fortune"?

heartseeker · 15-03-2013 04:31AM

MadsL wrote: »

Then why did you not rent instead of paying a "small fortune"?

Because maybe he never predicted such greed at the top to take hold with spiralling taxes,charges,rising prices and cuts to spending to increase bankers bonuses and politicians lavish lifestyles.
Your arrogance and lack of understanding to the dire straits people that were coping but can't anymore is both glib and pathetic.And it is that precise attitude that gets peoples backs up and will be your undoing.

MadsL · 15-03-2013 05:05AM

heartseeker wrote: »

Because maybe he never predicted such greed at the top to take hold with spiralling taxes,charges,rising prices and cuts to spending to increase bankers bonuses and politicians lavish lifestyles.
Your arrogance and lack of understanding to the dire straits people that were coping but can't anymore is both glib and pathetic.And it is that precise attitude that gets peoples backs up and will be your undoing.

Be my undoing? Some drama queen.

Greed at the top? There was a fair amount of greed going on at the bottom too, and "naysayers" took a fair amount of hammering. You seem to think that I have not suffered as a result of that greed, I have had to emigrate as a result of that greed, despite renting through that boom. Paying the kind of money that people did pay for houses was the seeds of that dire straights, no-one held a gun to anyone's head, so don't ask me to sympathize. We are all big boys and girls signing mortgage agreements, a small tax is not the problem, rather people's financial idiocy.

heartseeker · 15-03-2013 05:23AM

MadsL wrote: »

Be my undoing? Some drama queen.

Greed at the top? There was a fair amount of greed going on at the bottom too, and "naysayers" took a fair amount of hammering. You seem to think that I have not suffered as a result of that greed, I have had to emigrate as a result of that greed, despite renting through that boom. Paying the kind of money that people did pay for houses was the seeds of that dire straights, no-one held a gun to anyone's head, so don't ask me to sympathize. We are all big boys and girls signing mortgage agreements, a small tax is not the problem, rather people's financial idiocy.

Go and browbeat someone else.nobodys interested.And if your out of the country please stay emigrated because were well shot of your type.Greed down the bottom ...poor people are just as greedy as the bankers who cost the state 80 billion is that it??you must revel in stirring up and sabotaging people on the brink.People with half brain no where the blame lies so if you think your being clever by downing people at the bottom and forcing them to blame themselves your morals or lack thereof are clear for everyone to see right through.Your arrogance will catch up with you in life.

revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

Comments