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revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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Comments

  • #632
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Like alot of threads lots of posturing going on. But i suspect like the little doggy that barks and barks when you go over to it, it turns over to have its belly rubbed.

    A little doggy called Enda?


  • #633
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    relax carry on wrote: »
    You also have the added issue of taking your cash out of the local economy and its associated problems.

    Where do you propose the cash will come from to pay the lpt?

    Its still cash that won't reach the local economy.


  • #634
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Like alot of threads lots of posturing going on. But i suspect like the little doggy that barks and barks when you go over to it, it turns over to have its belly rubbed.

    I know right!
    9ECC869D-5070-4BA8-8D60-6AC1A63F68AF-1323-0000020F652B7685_zps7162f033.jpg


  • #635
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    I know right!
    9ECC869D-5070-4BA8-8D60-6AC1A63F68AF-1323-0000020F652B7685_zps7162f033.jpg

    The very image I thought of when the post you quoted was posted


  • #636
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    I know right!
    9ECC869D-5070-4BA8-8D60-6AC1A63F68AF-1323-0000020F652B7685_zps7162f033.jpg

    That's him. He rolls over for Angela too. You want to see him beg though.


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  • #637
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    Well, as I pointed out earlier in the thread:



    For me, I'm happy that once, just once, they've actually listened to the experts and done something sensible about reforming the tax system rather than the usual populist, boom/bust friendly approach that Irish politicians often go for when chasing votes.
    Sorry V, but you're still avoiding my points. Populism isn't the issue here, it's how it will actually affect people already in debt, already unable to pay that debt who will now accrue another debt on top to the revenue. Something will give in that scenario.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #638
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Pointless discussion really. If you're liable there is no way to avoid paying it.

    MY, You have not answered my question, and seems You are avoiding answering it.

    How do You know that revenue won't be knocking on doors? Message #546 om page 37.

    For me, You have an awful habit of making statements, but can't back them up. If You can, then PLEASE supply answers!


  • #639
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Vlad, are you for real? A defferal incurs a FOUR % interest rate per annum. Who in their right mond ( at least those that pay ) would need that albatros around their neck and pass it on to their next-of-kin?

    Not paying €100 in early 2012 will leave people owing an extra €100 in July 2013. Who in their right mind would do this?


  • #640
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

    And you can't defer income tax.

    The only people who will point out the deferral thing with property tax as some sort of advantage, are people who wont have to defer it.


  • #641
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You can be sure that some people on here are being paid for their time.
    They overdo their defence of the party and it's policies.
    I'd say many of them actually agree with us but have to argue to the contrary.

    Thankfully, the BIGGEST of them all hasn't contributed ....YET.

    I am sure You know who I am referring to Tayto:rolleyes:


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  • #642
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    MY, You have not answered my question, and seems You are avoiding answering it.

    How do You know that revenue won't be knocking on doors? Message #546 om page 37.

    For me, You have an awful habit of making statements, but can't back them up. If You can, then PLEASE supply answers!

    Well, they wont be knocking on his/her door anyway.


  • #643
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Not paying €100 in early 2012 will leave people owing an extra €100 in July 2013. Who in their right mind would do this?

    People who:

    A, have a pair of balls, and will stand up against something when is clearly wrong.

    Or:

    B, aren't worried about the party whip, and going against it.

    Then there's those folk that simply do not have the cash to give. Surely its sunk in by now?


  • #644
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Not paying €100 in early 2012 will leave people owing an extra €100 in July 2013. Who in their right mind would do this?

    people who by making a collective stand coerced the government into setting the property tax at a much lower rate than originally planned, and have saved more than €100 in the process


  • #645
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    SamHall wrote: »
    If a great mass movement of people opposed to the tax simply ignored, refused, then appealed, and last resort 'deferrred' the payment, it might make the tax (the cash they were banking on) unworkable.

    The bondholders do not want to wait for fifty-sixty years on this money. I'm personally hoping to be around in fifty years at least.

    Enda rocks up in Brussells, and starts chatting to the bould Angela.
    'Hey Enda, when you paing up the next instalment on that loan'?
    'Soon as Johnny dies ( no disrespect to ANY Johnnies here)'

    FFS, You couldn't make this up!


  • #646
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    the groutch wrote: »
    people who by making a collective stand coerced the government into setting the property tax at a much lower rate than originally planned, and have saved more than €100 in the process

    Why did they not coerce them into scrapping the idea entirely?


  • #647
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    tayto lover wrote: »
    A little doggy called Enda?

    PLEASE Tayto, have SOME respect for my mutt:rolleyes:


  • #648
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Why did they not coerce them into scrapping the idea entirely?

    If as many pensioners hadn't have been scaremongered into registering and paying, it might very well have been.

    Incidentally, its not over yet, I believe the upcoming election in Meath will be the first evidence of fg losing its support of the public.


  • #649
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Why did they not coerce them into scrapping the idea entirely?

    unfortunately the idea wasn't scrapped, but if there had been near total compliance with registering for the HHC, they would have felt they could set the property tax higher without any issues.


  • #650
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    relax carry on wrote: »
    Do tell. How do you hope to evade this tax?


    Thats not exactly what i meant. Ive outlined earlier how this tax has legally cost them more already than they will ever get back from me(and ive only begun cutting back).
    But... i am self employed, i write the cheque at the end of the year, they can bill me all they want they wont get it, and they can audit all they want cause ive nothing to hide. TCC? :rolleyes:, ill get by, think i only ever needed it twice anyway.

    So unless they put an order against my pension (if i make it that far), they have fcuk all to get from me.;)


  • #651
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Sorry V, but you're still avoiding my points. Populism isn't the issue here, it's how it will actually affect people already in debt, already unable to pay that debt who will now accrue another debt on top to the revenue. Something will give in that scenario.

    I don't think I am. As I said, aside from the advantages of having a more sensible taxation system, if you're in difficulties, the option of being able to defer this is far more preferable than having your income tax hiked again or your benefits cut.

    Consider someone with a house worth €150,000. Their liability this year is €112 and on a full year basis its, €225. That means they've got to come up with an extra €2.15 a week this year and an extra €4.33 a week thereafter to cover the tax.

    Now, there's no doubt people are in difficulties and those extra few euro may be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some. So they opt to defer the tax till they get back on their feet again. Say five years. You do that and the interest bill comes to €112.

    Now that's no an insignificant sum, but if you're struggling with a mortgage, it's a tiny proportion of extra debt and a small price to pay to avoid going under.

    Other alternative taxes like raising income tax don't have that kind of get out to them.


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  • #652
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Some back of an envelope economics.

    Three bed semi in a commuter town bought in 2006 for €300,000, mortgage €250,000 over 35 years. House would now sell for €140,000.

    Total HHC/LPT for five years 2012-2016 €888, about €3.50 a week. Mortgage for one month €1100 plus.

    I think most people will get used to the idea. Far worse for this example would be if interest rates started going up. They were well over 10% for long periods in the past 30 years and as high as 18% at times.


  • #653
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Just for a start.....slash their own salaries, perks, kwango's ( which mr ek promised he would do, but appears not to have the balls to carry this promise out), have a big look at the LA's. We have a glass house up in Naas, which must have cost an absolute fortune. EG of inneptitude: I applied for my new card driving license 4-5 weeks ago, was told I will have the card within 3 weeks, yet only last week, i got my CC payment slip, with the following written on a piece of paper: You will have Your new license IN DUE COURSE.

    Get govt departments working like a 1st world country, and stop acting like a third world dictatorsship.

    After all above is done, then perhaps start hammering the slave in the street.

    Just a follow-up on this: Due course came the next day, with my new card license arriving.

    But now, yet another underhand trick by this bunch of thieves masquerading as a government. I had a license for driving almost everything, including a motorbike, which I have NEVER driven in my entire life ( am in my late 50's). Now, they have seperated a van license from a car license, ( as well as truck categories), and licensed is valid for these ONLY FOR 5 YEARS. So, I'll have to incur more expense just to keep my van, & truck license valid.

    BE WARNED, the lowness this bunch will go to screw you is mind-boggling.:mad::mad::mad:


  • #654
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I don't think I am. As I said, aside from the advantages of having a more sensible taxation system, if you're in difficulties, the option of being able to defer this is far more preferable than having your income tax hiked again or your benefits cut.

    Consider someone with a house worth €150,000. Their liability this year is €112 and on a full year basis its, €225. That means they've got to come up with an extra €2.15 a week this year and an extra €4.33 a week thereafter to cover the tax.

    Now, there's no doubt people are in difficulties and those extra few euro may be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some. So they opt to defer the tax till they get back on their feet again. Say five years. You do that and the interest bill comes to €112.

    Now that's no an insignificant sum, but if you're struggling with a mortgage, it's a tiny proportion of extra debt and a small price to pay to avoid going under.

    Other alternative taxes like raising income tax don't have that kind of get out to them.

    But it is not a get out, it is simply adding to peoples debts. How adding to someones debts is a get out, is a mystery.


  • #655
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Just a follow-up on this: Due course came the next day, with my new card license arriving.

    But now, yet another underhand trick by this bunch of thieves masquerading as a government. I had a license for driving almost everything, including a motorbike, which I have NEVER driven in my entire life ( am in my late 50's). Now, they have seperated a van license from a car license, ( as well as truck categories), and licensed is valid for these ONLY FOR 5 YEARS. So, I'll have to incur more expense just to keep my van, & truck license valid.

    BE WARNED, the lowness this bunch will go to screw you is mind-boggling.:mad::mad::mad:

    They know as a nation, we are fools.

    People`s debt is taxed and all, with credit card stamp duty. No end to it.


  • #656
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Bruthal wrote: »
    But it is not a get out, it is simply adding to peoples debts. How adding to someones debts is a get out, is a mystery.

    If debt by definition was bad, none of us would have a mortgage. Would you rather pay now and tip your family into poverty or pay it, along with an extra €100 five years down the line to avoid that? Or would you rather not have that choice at all and have to contribute more now whether you like it or not?


  • #657
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bruthal wrote: »
    But it is not a get out, it is simply adding to peoples debts. How adding to someones debts is a get out, is a mystery.

    It's an equal mystery to me why some people think breaking the law and adding to their debts is a good choice (the Won't Pay brigade).


  • #658
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    If debt by definition was bad, none of us would have a mortgage. Would you rather pay now and tip your family into poverty or pay it, along with an extra €100 five years down the line to avoid that? Or would you rather not have that choice at all and have to contribute more now whether you like it or not?

    But your alternative (and I mean no disrespect) is that if you can't pay up, pass the debt on to your family, who may already have serious financial difficulties as is.

    This has all arose from the 'coup' the gov achieved by deferring the promissory notes.


  • #659
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    SamHall wrote: »
    But your alternative (and I mean no disrespect) is that if you can't pay up, pass the debt on to your family, who may already have serious financial difficulties as is.

    Again, you have to compare this against alternative measures where you may have no alternative but to pay up.

    You aren't necessarily passing it on to your family. You can discharge it at any time, such as a few years down the road.


  • #660
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    It's an equal mystery to me why some people think breaking the law and adding to their debts is a good choice (the Won't Pay brigade).

    Are you another who breaks no laws ever?


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  • #661
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Are you another who breaks no laws ever?

    Dail privileges. ;)


This discussion has been closed.
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