Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

slavetothegrind · 12-03-2013 12:30AM

this shouldn't be about what wheelchair users can and cannot do.

You can cram people like sardines into a nightclub and put 300 where 100 should be but it creates a dangerous situation

the same with allowing a wheelchair into a cellar with no plan in place for emergency situations. Should there be? yes but not in this case there wasn't so was it wrong to refuse entry?

If there had been a fire and the poor chap had been injured would we not have the same witchhunt about their recklessness in allowing him entrance?

It wasn't personal but the lad made it so unneccesarily and wrongly.

As for embarrassment, sure he was the one who publicised it!!!!!

Duck's hoop · 12-03-2013 12:34AM

orestes wrote: »

I didn't say you can't get to them, I said you can't go to them. It's not a matter of ability, it's a matter of pragmatism, as I said earlier in this thread.

Don't understand this 100% either. 'You can get there but can't go there'?

There are degrees of pragmatism and practicality. Like I'm pretty sure my day is one long impractical drag if viewed from an able bodied viewpoint, but I'm just used to it. It's relative.

Lone Stone · 12-03-2013 12:37AM

living with a wheel chair user and anyone who does would know this
if your going some where you ring to find out if its wheel chair accessible if its not you find some where else, end of.

Basically this guy got some one fired because they didnt think it was safe to have him carried down and up the stairs and give alcohol would be involved id probably have to agree.

skimpydoo · 12-03-2013 12:37AM

FM104 have seen sense and are not covering this story. They probably smelled a media whore and did not want to give the story legs.

slavetothegrind · 12-03-2013 12:37AM

ducks hoop would you want to be carried into a small cellar nightclub with the only way out being a stairway you need assistance to climb?

if yes would you absolve the premises of any and all responsibility for you before you entered?

tunedout · 12-03-2013 12:38AM

Jesus, next the top of Croagh Patrick will have to be wheelchair accessible.

orestes · 12-03-2013 12:44AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Don't understand this 100% either. 'You can get there but can't go there'?

There are degrees of pragmatism and practicality. Like I'm pretty sure my day is one long impractical drag if viewed from an able bodied viewpoint, but I'm just used to it. It's relative.

What I mean is just because a person is physically capable of going somewhere there are reasonable and logical prohibitions that might prevent them from doing so, such as reasonable accessability, health & safety, insurance, etc.

Some people are too short to ride certain rollercoasters. They are physically capable of doing so, but are not allowed to for various practical reasons. It's not discrimination against short people to not allow them on the ride, it's just an unfortunate fact that the are not allowed to due to practical prohibitions.

Madam_X · 12-03-2013 12:47AM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Are you having a laugh with the above statement?:rolleyes:

D'oh! Total error. Thanks for drawing my attention to what could be construed as a lack of sensitivity, person with the username "Mongfinder General". :pac:

I Luv Crysis · 12-03-2013 12:48AM

FM104 have seen sense and are not covering this story. They probably smelled a media whore and did not want to give the story legs.

I think what they are currently discussing - a garda getting slashed in the face and another garda bitten is far more appealing to the "clientele" that listen to that show.

Duck's hoop · 12-03-2013 12:49AM

tunedout wrote: »

Jesus, next the top of Croagh Patrick will have to be wheelchair accessible.

You've totally missed the point. Utterly.

I've been in many basement bars and clubs, on rooftops, here and elsewhere. Nobody has ever said I couldn't enter a premises because of my using a chair. I have been advised against it on several occasions and depending on my mood and capacity for hassle on that day or night I might pass or give it a go.

I think the whole issue is getting confused and I'm arguing a very specific point. That of the OP. That if a person is refused entry to a premises purely because s/he is in a chair then that is out of order.

Grayson · 12-03-2013 12:50AM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That was terrifying. Loads of people (including me) have been waffling about fire risks, but that's just horrible.

starlings · 12-03-2013 12:51AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Not sure I understand? I'm taking the OP at face value and assuming he was turned away based solely on the fact he was in a chair. Not that there were stairs.

I've been all over North Africa and Eastern Europe and there's not too many places where things are 'wheelchair accessible'. But you still have to get out.

The outrage happened when everyone took the OP at face value - before it was pointed out that the nightclub is in the basement of an old building.

Now if you found similar places in N Africa or E Europe and you and the proprietors were happy with carrying you up and down stairs, that would be great. What seems to be emerging on this thread is that there is no standard protocol for helping people up and down stairs to basements in old buildings that don't have lifts, and may not be able to be refitted.

skimpydoo · 12-03-2013 12:55AM

Grayson wrote: »

That was terrifying. Loads of people (including me) have been waffling about fire risks, but that's just horrible.

Makes you think why would a wheelchair user want to go to a small cramped club where the only exit is by the stairs.

Grayson · 12-03-2013 12:55AM

starlings wrote: »

Now if you found similar places in N Africa or E Europe and you and the proprietors were happy with carrying you up and down stairs, that would be great. What seems to be emerging on this thread is that there is no standard protocol for helping people up and down stairs to basements in old buildings that don't have lifts, and may not be able to be refitted.

And may or may not be covered by insurance. They're a business and that's the bottom line.

Grayson · 12-03-2013 12:55AM

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

Makes you think why would a wheelchair user want to go to a small cramped club where the only exit is by the stairs.

makes me wonder why I'd want to.

padd b1975 · 12-03-2013 12:57AM

I wonder how many passers by tripped over his bottom lip as he sulked for 45 minutes ouside the club.

skimpydoo · 12-03-2013 01:00AM

Grayson wrote: »

makes me wonder why I'd want to.

And the main protagonist seems to have attended various events in Dublin in different clubs so he knew dam well what he was letting himself in for.
http://www.showbiz.ie/news/february13/08-ispcc-show-was-en-seine.shtml

Duck's hoop · 12-03-2013 01:00AM

starlings wrote: »

The outrage happened when everyone took the OP at face value - before it was pointed out that the nightclub is in the basement of an old building.

Now if you found similar places in N Africa or E Europe and you and the proprietors were happy with carrying you up and down stairs, that would be great. What seems to be emerging on this thread is that there is no standard protocol for helping people up and down stairs to basements in old buildings that don't have lifts, and may not be able to be refitted.

Do not need help thanks.

Where club is situated is irrelevant if we believe the OP. guy was told no entry as you're in a chair. Not because of any associated danger/safety concern/potential fire hazard. If this is correct then door guy is an ass.

If its incorrect then parameters change.

Way too clouded and has strayed much too far now from original point.

I'm done. Thanks

My name is URL · 12-03-2013 01:01AM

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

And the main protagonist seems to have attended various events in Dublin in different clubs so he knew dam well what he was letting himself in for.##[URL="http://www.showbiz.ie/news/february13/08-ispcc-show-was-en-seine.shtmlml[/URL]

http://9.asset.soup.io/asset/3154/5033_5a29.gif

ScumLord · 12-03-2013 01:01AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There is pretty much not any place I and many other chair users can't get to if we want to, despite your insistence to the contrary.

I agree, with planning and determination anything is possible. If Graham rang ahead the nightclub may well have found a way to accommodate him or any other wheelchair user. But a spur of the moment thing is going to catch anyone off guard and it's always wise to say no if your unsure about something that could potentially injure someone.

brennan1979 · 12-03-2013 01:09AM

I've just read through all the posts and there are a couple of things that don't make sense to me. His friends arranged to meet him there for a big night out but it seemed a very strange place to pick. I've passed by it a few times while the doors have been opened and the only way into the nightclub is down a very steep set of stairs.

The nightclub is located just off Grafton street. There are dozens of nightclubs within a five to ten minute journey of Madison's. It's not like going to a small town in rural Ireland where there is literally only one nightclub in the town and if you don't get in that's your night over. Why would his friends arrange to all meet up at such an obviously unsuitable club? Why would they not have finished up their pints and gone out en masse to one of the many, MANY nightclubs in the immediate vicinity which are wheelchair accessible.

We don't know what happened during those 45 minutes. What the doorman said or what Graham and his friends said. What we do know is that a man has lost his job and has been threatened in the most vile and abusive manner on social media.

Now of course everyone agrees that wheelchair users should not be discriminated against or inconvenienced in any way but unfortunately being in a wheelchair means that there are just some venues that will be potentially dangerous or unsuitable for a disabled person. Nobody wants this or thinks it's fair but in some instances it is the case.

fullgas · 12-03-2013 01:10AM

Grayson wrote: »

That was terrifying. Loads of people (including me) have been waffling about fire risks, but that's just horrible.

This nightclub fire was worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxCU0o4WtpE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Perm, Russia. 156 fatalities. It's so scary how fast smoke travels.

Ruudi_Mentari · 12-03-2013 01:11AM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Are you having a laugh

Hath not this present parliament, a lieger to the devil sent as fully empowered to treat about, finding revolted mongos out?!

skimpydoo · 12-03-2013 01:12AM

brennan1979 wrote: »

I've just read through all the posts and there are a couple of things that don't make sense to me. His friends arranged to meet him there for a big night out but it seemed a very strange place to pick. I've passed by it a few times while the doors have been opened and the only way into the nightclub is down a very steep set of stairs.

The nightclub is located just off Grafton street. There are dozens of nightclubs within a five to ten minute journey of Madison's. It's not like going to a small town in rural Ireland where there is literally only one nightclub in the town and if you don't get in that's your night over. Why would his friends arrange to all meet up at such an obviously unsuitable club? Why would they not have finished up their pints and gone out en masse to one of the many, MANY nightclubs in the immediate vicinity which are wheelchair accessible.

We don't know what happened during those 45 minutes. What the doorman said or what Graham and his friends said. What we do know is that a man has lost his job and has been threatened in the most vile and abusive manner on social media.

As Graham is a musician he and his friends would know which clubs are suitable so why the hell did they choose Madison?.

Cienciano · 12-03-2013 01:13AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

And Orestes, the one time wheelchair user, which now apparently is a licence to say you were there man, you weren't. It was always going to be temporary.

orestes wrote: »

Actually, it wasn't. I had a cyst growing inside my left femur which eventually weakened the bone to the point that it disintigrated about 3 inches of my femur. It didn't break, it was simply gone, leaving a three inch gap in the bone. I had to have bone spliced out of my tibia and transplanted into my femur to form a bridge in the hope that enough it would regenerate enough to reform the bone to the point that it would be strong enough to eventually hold my weight (and even if it was, there was no guarantee it would even grow straight enough to be functional) while leaving enough of my tibia intact to regenerate. Even if the transplant took there was no way of knowing it would grow straight, so I could have ended up not only crippled but deformed to boot.

There was no guarantee I would ever walk again, it was quite the opposite, I was told I'd never walk again until somebody proposed a very drastic idea, and even then there was no guarantee it would work. The surgery was completely experimental with surgeons being flown in from the states to do it. There wasn't even a guarantee I'd survive the surgery, it was a one shot job and there was no way to know if I would come out of the anaesthetic due to the amount of time I would need to be put under for, so the surgeons were racing the clock to get the job done, if they got the timing wrong I wasn't coming back and if they pulled me out too early the only shot we had at trying the procedure was wasted. The only reason it even went ahead is that paperwork was signed to absolve the surgeons and hospital of any liability. The procedure is now in medical textbooks.

So no, it was never temporary. It was permenant, aside from a once off highly experimental surgery that could have killed me.

I said I was in a wheelchair for over two years. That doesn't include the months I spent lying in a bed with my leg bolted into place unable to move in case the transplant shattered or was caused to grow out of line, or the eventual years of rehab spent learning to walk again and not being able to do anything physical so that the transplant wasn't put under pressure that could cause it to break.

So, yes I was in a wheelchair for a couple if years, but there was no guarantee it was temporary, and after I was eventually able to walk again there was no guarantee that running for a bus couldn't put me right back in one for the rest of my life. I just got very lucky that myself and a group of surgeons took a massive gamble that paid off.

I know what people in wheelchairs go through, and I sympathise with them more than most people can imagine, to be honest when I see people in wheelchairs I often feel guilty that I'm not in one myself just because I got lucky. But being in a wheelchair doesn't give somebody the right to launch a campaign to get somebody fired because their feelings were hurt. One of the reasons that this incident has annoyed me so much is that I'm disgusted that somebody in a wheelchair would use it as a card to play in order to further such a selfish and bitter cause.

TL:DR - You're wrong, I'm just lucky.

I find it petty and insulting that you instantly dismiss the experiences of somebody who used to be in a wheelchair as irrelevant while discussing matters related to experiences of people confined to wheelchairs.

And I didn't compare not getting into this club to not being able to play soccer, I said that there are some places that people in wheelchairs can't go and some things that they can't do, and they include going up and down flights of stairs and playing soccer. This club just happens to fall under the list of places a person in a wheelchair can't go, along with many, many others.

Nicely written post orestes, that was a fairly serious condition you were in.
I don't want to use it as point scoring, but Duck Soup, for someone who's going on about bitterness towards the guy in the OP, and someone who gets insulted because you didn't understand a comparison, you're showing a great display of bitterness for ignoring your claim that orestes condition was "always temporary" and failing to apologise.

Ruudi_Mentari · 12-03-2013 01:21AM

Madison.. sounds like a dive with 'classy' delusions.

aka chav haven should have come down to my favourite 'niche' club it is also small, and with a stairs but far from cramped and by golly they'd carry you in just for the custom?

orestes · 12-03-2013 01:40AM

Cienciano wrote: »

Nicely written post orestes, that was a fairly serious condition you were in.
I don't want to use it as point scoring, but Duck Soup, for someone who's going on about bitterness towards the guy in the OP, and someone who gets insulted because you didn't understand a comparison, you're showing a great display of bitterness for ignoring your claim that orestes condition was "always temporary" and failing to apologise.

I know, it really hurt my feelings.

I think I'll start a facebook campaign about boards hating people who used to be in wheelchairs in the hopes that the admins are put under so much pressure that they close his account on him.

Gatling · 12-03-2013 01:50AM

The day people start that might as well close down the internet ,

Ruudi_Mentari · 12-03-2013 01:56AM

You know how it is, in this girly disco climate if you're not "gonna dance your ass off I hope" then they just don't wanna know.

Magenta · 12-03-2013 02:00AM

Mayoman911 wrote: »

Thought I'd give my 2 cents after getting a general idea of the issue... I didn't feel like trawling through 40-50 odd pages to see if my views had already been made.

Like the Facebook mob so...

Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

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