revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

ilovesleep · 11-03-2013 11:12PM

And we all partied, SamHall, apparently.

tayto lover · 11-03-2013 11:14PM

I hear they're thinking of bringing in Waterboarding.

Banjo String · 11-03-2013 11:15PM

professore wrote: »

Revenue will take it out of your salary/bank account/social welfare with hefty interest. TBH anyone who doesn't pay is an idiot.

And if they do, I'll nixer my way through 2013\14 with cash transaction after cash transaction.

I'll buy from the north (I'm not far from the border) as and when I can.

I'll pay 'cash rates' to my builder/mechanic (insert any other service you wish here)

If they rob from me, I'll take it back again. Simple as that.

username123 · 11-03-2013 11:15PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I hear they're thinking of bringing in Waterboarding.

As well as taking your firstborn or instead of?

Yitzhak Rabin · 11-03-2013 11:19PM

SamHall wrote: »

And if they do, I'll nixer my way through 2013\14 with cash transaction after cash transaction.

I'll buy from the north (I'm not far from the border) as and when I can.

I'll pay 'cash rates' to my builder/mechanic (insert any other service you wish here)

If they rob from me, I'll take it back again. Simple as that.

If a tradesman offered a 'cash rate' to me, I would immediately report them to the revenue commissioners. Id gladly do, it as that kind of illegality sickens me.

Bruthal · 11-03-2013 11:20PM

professore wrote: »

TBH anyone who doesn't pay is an idiot.

And just pay any tax ever demanded, and you`re a professor is it?

Bruthal · 11-03-2013 11:25PM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

If a tradesman offered a 'cash rate' to me, I would immediately report them to the revenue commissioners. Id gladly do, it as that kind of illegality sickens me.

You are trying to be a boards hero most likely, with that BS.

Banjo String · 11-03-2013 11:26PM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

If a tradesman offered a 'cash rate' to me, I would immediately report them to the revenue commissioners. Id gladly do, it as that kind of illegality sickens me.

That doesn't surprise me one iota tbh.

Anyone who advocates people give up all and any little luxury they may be able to afford after a hard months graft, so as they can pay a tax, must IMO be a fairly decent, law abiding, model citizen.

Bruthal · 11-03-2013 11:33PM

SamHall wrote: »

That doesn't surprise me one iota tbh.

Anyone who advocates people give up all and any little luxury they may be able to afford after a hard months graft, so as they can pay a tax, must IMO be a fairly decent, law abiding, model citizen.

The ones who advocate that, are always ones not affected themselves.

Give up your sky, your broadband, your mobile phone etc, then you can pay more and more tax.

On another note, I see a house worth €0 (if it existed, but they do specify it) would be liable for €90 tax. So there ends that rubbish that it is a wealth tax.

hawkelady · 11-03-2013 11:34PM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

If a tradesman offered a 'cash rate' to me, I would immediately report them to the revenue commissioners. Id gladly do, it as that kind of illegality sickens me.

My my Mr.... You sound like a barrel of laughs. You keep thinking like you are and you will end up a complete misery to be be around. Btw , report him for what. Is it actually illegal to talk about doing a job for cash in hand ? You should talk to a bloke called joe Duffy . He loves to hear from moaners
Don't fret , I'll keep getting jobs done for me for cash. Cash is king my man!!!!!

tayto lover · 11-03-2013 11:35PM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Local Co. Councils were collecting that. They are ineffectual and toothless. The revenue is a far different animal, sporting great big shark-like jaws.

Even Jaws was blown out of the water.

Bruthal · 11-03-2013 11:36PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I hear they're thinking of bringing in Waterboarding.

Yes, only after the metering is in place though.

dxhound2005 · 11-03-2013 11:37PM

SamHall wrote: »

We heard all this law breaking, and found & fined malarkey from the household charge fiasco, which I believe was merely the foundations being lain for this Tax, and when near 600k of the population refused to comply/bullied, to date no one, nobody, not homeowner not landlord has yet been prosecuted.

Pardon me if I'm far from frightened.

There are prosecutions in progress at present. But there is no need for any more prosecutions since the HHC is now incorporated into the LPT. If the number is 600,000 that is 600,000 x €200 come July. It might take a while to bring it all in but time is on their side.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/2012/proptaxbill2012.pdf

.
123.—Any local property tax, interest referred to in section 149 or
other monetary penalty amount which is due and unpaid by a liable
person shall be and remain a charge on the relevant residential property
to which it relates.

124.—Notwithstanding section 36 of the Statute of Limitations
1957, the charge referred to in section 123 shall continue to apply
without a time limit until such time as it is paid in full.

Banjo String · 11-03-2013 11:39PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are prosecutions in progress at present. But there is no need for any more prosecutions since the HHC is now incorporated into the LPT. If the number is 600,000 that is 600,000 x €200 come July. It might take a while to bring it all in but time is on their side.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/2012/proptaxbill2012.pdf

.
123.—Any local property tax, interest referred to in section 149 or
other monetary penalty amount which is due and unpaid by a liable
person shall be and remain a charge on the relevant residential property
to which it relates.

124.—Notwithstanding section 36 of the Statute of Limitations
1957, the charge referred to in section 123 shall continue to apply
without a time limit until such time as it is paid in full.

You don't get it though do you?

They're empty threats, we were promised bank account raids, pension deductions, fines, numerous actions if we didn't pay the hhc, none of which came through.

Now, with a still very much incomplete database, revenue are threatening us in the same way?

There's a hell of a lot of people that will continue to boycott a lpt too.

And if they forcibly take it........

What then?

Black market flourish?

dxhound2005 · 11-03-2013 11:45PM

SamHall wrote: »

You don't get it though do you?

There's a hell of a lot of people that will continue to boycott ah lpt too.

What then?

Black market flourish?

Maybe you don't get it. The charge on the property will be collected whenever it changes hands. It will be no more possible to avoid it than to avoid stamp duty or inheritance tax.

Why did people not refuse to pay the stamp duty when they were buying their houses? That would have save them much more than the HHC.

Indie18 · 11-03-2013 11:48PM

lob_sided wrote: »

children cannot vote and are therefore the genuinely most vulnerable ( hate that banal term ) group in the country , unfortunatley the country is short on money and all the low hanging fruit has been picked , we have just signed off on another cushy deal for the public sector , pensioners are apparently untouchable for political reasons and the banks are more powerfull than ever , it seems tales of hungary kids going to school will continue for another while

You ay cushy deal for public sector, do you actually think everyone in the public sector has a cushy number?

Banjo String · 11-03-2013 11:55PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe you don't get it. The charge on the property will be collected whenever it changes hands. It will be no more possible to avoid it than to avoid stamp duty or inheritance tax.

So, the govt can wait on me dying is that it?

I'd say there's 50 - 60 years in me yet, and I'm not planning on croaking in the near future.

Perhaps everyone should simply wait, and pay it that way?

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Why did people not refuse to pay the stamp duty when they were buying their houses? That would have save them much more than the HHC.

I tried to pay my local shop this morning for a few groceries minus the vat...

Didn't go down too well.

Bruthal · 11-03-2013 11:57PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe you don't get it. The charge on the property will be collected whenever it changes hands. It will be no more possible to avoid it than to avoid stamp duty or inheritance tax.

Why did people not refuse to pay the stamp duty when they were buying their houses? That would have save them much more than the HHC.

If stamp duty was unknown about, but later added after the house was already bought, im sure people would have refused, except for the law abiding boards squad of course, who would have a pre mature dose of over excitement at the thought of it.

fatalll · 11-03-2013 11:57PM

SamHall wrote: »

This law is a sham law though.

It doesn't take stamp duty already paid into consideration, nor does it take individual circumstances/ability to pay into consideration.

It has the potential to turn many thousands of law abiding, tax compliant citizens into tax evading criminals, especially in people who are already struggling due to job loss or vast salary reductions.

I foresee FF (who, I'm by no means a fan of btw, but the most popular political party atm) scrapping this if they get into power again.

Let's face it, they'd do anything to be back in the driving seat again. They've already 'opposed' it, which probably helped to propel them in the opinion polls.

If you think FF will get rid of property tax...you are mistaken...

dxhound2005 · 12-03-2013 12:01AM

lob_sided wrote: »

i said the public sector as a whole recently got a guarentee from the gov that they wont face the possibility of a pay cut or job loss for the next number of years

in a rescssion of this magnitude , thats a cushy deal by and measure to most people

It's good to see that the recession has passed over a lot of the private sector and they are doing nicely. Like the gambling companies, the Pay TV companies and the airlines.

If any of their employees are suffering a pay cut they should be jumping up and down asking why their top brass are getting 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach.

Wibbs · 12-03-2013 12:03AM

lob_sided wrote: »

the only thing that shows is that a sizeable number of people are not paying their loans on time , thats a seperate issue from saying with certainty that people are in poverty

Ask yourself why would people not pay. I've three mates in arrears. The banks and the debt collection agencies they hand it over to are ringing these people daily, sometimes in the middle of the night(no I'm not kidding), they call to their door. In one guys case on a Sunday. On top of that are the financial penalties accrued which really bloody add up to the point of sheer usury IMH. It would be so much simpler to just pay. From my experience, such as it is, they're not paying because they quite simply can't.

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

There are very very few families bordering on poverty in Ireland.

You know me well enough to reckon I'm not bullshtting you YR, but there are. Obviously I'm not talking of Calcutta poverty, but there are many families in this nation of ours where the parents are going hungry to feed their kids. People who are wearing coats indoors in winter because they can't afford to turn on the heating. Two guys I know keep their eyes out for discarded wooden palattes to bring home as firewood(one told me the blue ones are no use as they give off toxic fumes. Knowledge I wish I never learned). One of my neighbours cut down a mature tree in his garden. A tree he often mentioned in convo with pride. I asked him WTF when I saw it gone and he replied with more than a hint of sadness with "firewood". Like I say I know a few and we're talking outwardly "middle class" folks here. People who really didn't go batsht in the "boom", but whose jobs were lost/work dried up kinda scenario. Like I said I'm talking about people in suburbia, christ knows what's going down in historically poor areas. Well as was suggested ask those in the SVP. I'll say this, IMHO anyway, there is a fast growing but hidden social divide happening now as we speak on this island. The haves, even the justabout haves aren't seeing the real have nots around them, even when they're neighbours. Just look at some on this thread. The "oh you'll have to pay it, it's your civic duty" etc. They quite simply don't see the real life stuff being played out for people who just don't have the money to pay it. To paraphrase one such poster, thats the real "Me fein" thing that's going on.

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

If a tradesman offered a 'cash rate' to me, I would immediately report them to the revenue commissioners. Id gladly do, it as that kind of illegality sickens me.

Oh it sickens me too YR, but for different reasons. I heard almost none of that back in the celtic tiger ballsology, but I'm hearing it all the time these days. Actually today I heard it as I needed something done urgently on my gaff and money being tight and all. The guy who I've dealt with before was poster boy for above board back in the day, yet this very day straightaway suggested a nixer. In the end I sorted the problem myself thank god, but if I hadn't been able to I'll be honest and say I'd have taken his offer as it would have saved me at least 500 quid. 500 quid that is hard earned and scarce enough.

Banjo String · 12-03-2013 12:06AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's good to see that the recession has passed over a lot of the private sector and they are doing nicely. Like the gambling companies, the Pay TV companies and the airlines.

If any of their employees are suffering a pay cut they should be jumping up and down asking why their top brass are getting 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach.

Gambling company, like say, William Hill or Paddy Power?

Did their companies require a bailout? Are they running 'deficits' each year to keep the companies running?

I'd hazard a guess, that they aren't.

I'd also hazard a guess that as soon as they start becoming unsuccessful businesses, staff will be let go, and the MD's, directors and so on will take severe pay cuts, and pension freezes.

secman · 12-03-2013 12:06AM

Its all very well to listen to a high earner from revenue and high earning politicians who are set up for life with their pensions threatening us . If i were in their situation i would not have to worry about the property tax, guaranteed income for life. Its a ducking disgrace , the power they have been given and the threatening behavior of revenue. Can't wait for a fine gael or labour git to call to my house, dogs abuse will an the order of the day.

Secman

tayto lover · 12-03-2013 12:10AM

secman wrote: »

Its all very well to listen to a high earner from revenue and high earning politicians who are set up for life with their pensions threatening us . If i were in their situation i would not have to worry about the property tax, guaranteed income for life. Its a ducking disgrace , the power they have been given and the threatening behavior of revenue. Can't wait for a fine gael or labour git to call to my house, dogs abuse will an the order of the day.

Secman

They won't be calling.
They are the same as Fianna Fail last time. No visits to anyone's home as they knew what they'd get. FG/Labour will be the same next time.
Dead men walking.

dxhound2005 · 12-03-2013 12:11AM

secman wrote: »

Its all very well to listen to a high earner from revenue and high earning politicians who are set up for life with their pensions threatening us . If i were in their situation i would not have to worry about the property tax, guaranteed income for life. Its a ducking disgrace , the power they have been given and the threatening behavior of revenue. Can't wait for a fine gael or labour git to call to my house, dogs abuse will an the order of the day.

Secman

At least they cant seize your house for non payment like in the North. If Sinn Fein come to your door you could ask them about that.

Banjo String · 12-03-2013 12:13AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

At least they cant seize your house for non payment like in the North. If Sinn Fein come to your door you could ask them about that.

IIRC, SF opposed the property tax here from the start?

Why should they be challenged on something they do not agree with?

Maybe we should confront the local priest on the Jewish belief about not eating swine?

tayto lover · 12-03-2013 12:18AM

Revenue need you to fill-in and return their form.
If you do then they have you.
If you don't then they don't have your details so can't charge you.
They can send letters to the person named on the ESB bill but they can't say who should be paying.
Return nothing, don't open the door to strangers and they can do nothing about it.

secman · 12-03-2013 12:19AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

At least they cant seize your house for non payment like in the North. If Sinn Fein come to your door you could ask them about that.

I did not vote for sinn fein , i voted for a fine gael git who lied through his teeth along with that enda lying bastard too, i was conned big time and won't forget it.

Secman

Banjo String · 12-03-2013 12:21AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Revenue need you to fill-in and return their form.
If you do then they have you.
If you don't then they don't have your details so can't charge you.
They can send letters to the person named on the ESB bill but they can't say who should be paying.
Return nothing, don't open the door to strangers and they can do nothing about it.

dxhound2005 · 12-03-2013 12:26AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Revenue need you to fill-in and return their form.
If you do then they have you.
If you don't then they don't have your details so can't charge you.
They can send letters to the person named on the ESB bill but they can't say who should be paying.
Return nothing, don't open the door to strangers and they can do nothing about it.

You are giving legal advice. And it is wrong.

12.—In administering this Act generally or in exercising any power
to make an estimate or an assessment or to require the delivery of a
return in relation to any relevant residential property or in exercising
any other power thereunder
(a) the Revenue Commissioners shall not be required firstly
to inquire into the ownership of, or title to, any particular
residential property, and
(b) all such facts and circumstances relating to the occupation
of a residential property by a person as give rise to an
inference that that person is the owner thereof may be
taken into account by the Revenue Commissioners

revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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