Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

Duck's hoop · 11-03-2013 09:04PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

My general opinion on matters is you can be male, female, black, white, asian, disabled, transgendered, a dwarf, a giant,..... and still be a complete twat. I've no problem with discrimination against numpties regardless of any of their other characteristics as human beings.

I could understand his stance on the matter if it was the only club in the vicinity but this was Dublin and waiting outside for 45 minutes regardless of circumstances is just being a twat. I've done it once in my life myself in Wales, bouncer took my passport off me claiming it was a fake i.d. and i literally had to wait an hour for the police to come fetch me it back, but otherwise it's just being a twat. We've all been refused from clubs on so many BS reasons over the years, take it on the chin, curse the bouncers under your breath, move on get drunk elsewhere.

If its true the door guy refused him because of his chair, as has been stated several times, his frustration and anger are understandable and valid.

If he refused him on grounds of health and safety, because he was drunk, inappropriately dressed or whatever else anybody else might be turned away for, then yes, he should've just fvcked off somewhere else.

But if he was told straight out he wasn't getting in cos of his chair without further explanation, that's totally out of order.

The Road Runner · 11-03-2013 09:07PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Most of what I've seen on here has been pretty negative towards the chair user tbh.

I've no interest in the FB mob. But I really don't think there's a reasoned and informed debate going on here either.

What you've seen here has been mostly a reaction to the facebook mob mentality, and a pretty fair back and forth. Like most people my initial reaction was to feel bad for the guy. But as things went on it didn't seem so black and white. Like his continuation this morning after he was apologized to. Most people on here have witnessed witch hunts on the net of varying sorts around the world over the years. They are not a new phenomena, nor is the creation of a viral reaction situation. I don't use it, but my impression of facebook over the years is that people shoot first and to hell with the consequences.

Artful_Badger · 11-03-2013 09:08PM

Big Bottom wrote: »

Thanks for saying that I think it is outrageous that people can put that.

Imagine the poor girl had done nothing wrong and she is now getting hate mail sent to her?

My fault, she was named earlier in the thread and the page says model and public figure so I didnt think it would be a problem but after posting it I decided to delete it. Just not before it was quoted it seems. Wasnt my intention to direct any abuse her way.

Grayson · 11-03-2013 09:10PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

If its true the door guy refused him because of his chair, as has been stated several times, his frustration and anger are understandable and valid.

If he refused him on grounds of health and safety, because he was drunk, inappropriately dressed or whatever else anybody else might be turned away for, then yes, he should've just fvcked off somewhere else.

But if he was told straight out he wasn't getting in cos of his chair without further explanation, that's totally out of order.

that's what we've been saying. If he was stopped from going into any other bar that has access, we'd be up in arms and joining the facebook mob.

But that venue is different because of all the fecking stairs. I can see why they'd stop someone in a chair from going in. It'd be a nightmare getting them in, and the bathrooms are apparently up a big flight of stairs too.
Honestly, i think with everything that could go wrong, they'd be crazy to let him in.

Plus this guy has dealt with it in a really bad way. after someone gets fired his only action is to repost the photo. It really looks like he just wants to hurt the business and doesn't care if more people lose work.

wonderfullife · 11-03-2013 09:12PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

If its true the door guy refused him because of his chair, as has been stated several times, his frustration and anger are understandable and valid.

If he refused him on grounds of health and safety, because he was drunk, inappropriately dressed or whatever else anybody else might be turned away for, then yes, he should've just fvcked off somewhere else.

But if he was told straight out he wasn't getting in cos of his chair without further explanation, that's totally out of order.

none of the above explains why he waited the bones of an hour at the front of the club getting pics taken of his "plight". Wheelchair or no wheelchair i wouldn't wasting an hour sitting outside somewhere making a scene when i could be in the next club getting sh1t faced.

Duck's hoop · 11-03-2013 09:14PM

Grayson wrote: »

You can expect it. Trees and lamposts won't move out of your way. A blind person has to work around them.

There are plenty of places that don't have the ability to cater for the disabled.

I have a feeling you don't actually have an argument and you're going to just say that we're haters. Which is ironic.

Chair users can get up and down stairs, either arse it or get a carry, some can even make it on their feet. I have said he should be allowed to at least try to overcome any built environment.

If people with disabilities, and particularly chair users were only go where they were specifically catered for, they really would lead a very dull life. This is my point. It has been repeated over and over that he should not expect to get in to places where there is no special accommodation made for a chair user.

If you knew anything at all about it you'd know that this is just limiting yourself to a tiny minority of places, cities, countries.

And not sure if insinuating I'm a 'hater' or the Bolger guy, but either way, yeah, cripples are bitter.

hatrickpatrick · 11-03-2013 09:15PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Most of what I've seen on here has been pretty negative towards the chair user tbh.

It's to be expected on AH. As with any thread alleging or exposing police brutality, a lot of people on AH (not all obviously but a lot) are prone to assume the ordinary person is lying and the "official" person is telling the truth whenever it's one person's word against another.
They're also more likely to say that some unacceptable behavior becomes ok if the person on the receiving end of it "had it coming". "Having it coming" is very loosely defined, depending on the thread it can be related to the size of someone's beard, what geographical suburb they come from, or what kind of accent they speak with. :rolleyes:

Gatling · 11-03-2013 09:16PM

Wonder if he gets more than a helping hand down the stairs next time he pulls up at a club

the purple tin · 11-03-2013 09:23PM

I didn't think pubs and clubs had to give a reason for turning you away.
Reserve the right to refuse admittance etc.

starlings · 11-03-2013 09:29PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's to be expected on AH. As with any thread alleging or exposing police brutality, a lot of people on AH (not all obviously but a lot) are prone to assume the ordinary person is lying and the "official" person is telling the truth whenever it's one person's word against another.
They're also more likely to say that some unacceptable behavior becomes ok if the person on the receiving end of it "had it coming". "Having it coming" is very loosely defined, depending on the thread it can be related to the size of someone's beard, what geographical suburb they come from, or what kind of accent they speak with. :rolleyes:

Not sure that's fair. If you're going to sum up a whole thread, saying "not all obviously, but a lot", you might as well do a quick count of posts.

In this case, I don't think it's assuming that the official is right, rather it's been a mistrust of an angry OP from one party to an argument. It's fair enough to ask for that to be backed up with more information and for the other side to be given a say.

Grayson · 11-03-2013 09:32PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Chair users can get up and down stairs, either arse it or get a carry, some can even make it on their feet. I have said he should be allowed to at least try to overcome any built environment.

If people with disabilities, and particularly chair users were only go where they were specifically catered for, they really would lead a very dull life. This is my point. It has been repeated over and over that he should not expect to get in to places where there is no special accommodation made for a chair user.

If you knew anything at all about it you'd know that this is just limiting yourself to a tiny minority of places, cities, countries.

And not sure if insinuating I'm a 'hater' or the Bolger guy, but either way, yeah, cripples are bitter.

Honestly, i don't think you are the bolger guy. But you must understand, we're just looking at the evidence.

I mentioned it earlier that i used to work for the IWA. I was shocked at the number of places that don't have access. And i don't mean businesses, I mean towns. There are many places that will have a footpath with a slope and then a fecking step for some reason. just one fecking step. So you have to cross the road to cintinue.

I'm not disabled, so I have no idea how it feels for someone in a chair. But having spent so much time with them, I do understand the physical obstacles that they face. There were many pubs and bars we couldn't go into. There were far more that we could go to, but even then, many areas were off limits. But after spending any time in an area with the member i was caring for, I'd learn where I could and could not go.

In this case, that club is one of the more inaccessable that I've heard of. I think I was in it a few years ago when it was under different management. The stairs are steep. If I was a bouncer, I'd have just refused outright (I would have been apologetic though). Simply because besides all the risks in him being on the premises What if there was a fire etc...) getting him in, out and to & from the toilet would be a nightmare. All that carrying... If I'm not trained to and his friends aren't insured to, it's just too much.

Gatling · 11-03-2013 09:35PM

Most of what I read is hearsay based off fb or people just mouthing off with the whole poor disabled man forced away from club by big bad bouncer ,surprised it hasn't been on late night radio yet

skimpydoo · 11-03-2013 09:35PM

Grayson wrote: »

That was back on page 20-ish. His GF apparently.

Funny as the OP his "friend" does not know who she is and called her a bint.

skimpydoo · 11-03-2013 09:37PM

Gatling wrote: »

Probably a publicity stunt for her, watch she will be all over morning TV doing the I'm totally shocked at this ,her Facebook isn't exactly then most liked or followed for a model

Well it was either this or a sex tape

wonderfullife · 11-03-2013 09:39PM

wait, wait.

The girl in the skirt is his girlfriend. The OP is a "good friend of many years" of the 'victim' of the story. Yet didn't know who the "bints" in the picture were?!

If you dont even know your mate has a girlfriend, i'd take the rest of the original rant with a spoonfull sized pinch of salt.

Also, if there was genuine discrimination here instead of a fb witch-hunt, how about he just reports the incident to one of the many Gardai on foot patrol in dublin city center on any given night.

Meh, this really just looks like he got the hump for not getting in with his hot bird, embarrassed and caused a scene.

Duck's hoop · 11-03-2013 09:43PM

Grayson wrote: »

Honestly, i don't think you are the bolger guy. But you must understand, we're just looking at the evidence.

I mentioned it earlier that i used to work for the IWA. I was shocked at the number of places that don't have access. And i don't mean businesses, I mean towns. There are many places that will have a footpath with a slope and then a fecking step for some reason. just one fecking step. So you have to cross the road to cintinue.

I'm not disabled, so I have no idea how it feels for someone in a chair. But having spent so much time with them, I do understand the physical obstacles that they face. There were many pubs and bars we couldn't go into. There were far more that we could go to, but even then, many areas were off limits. But after spending any time in an area with the member i was caring for, I'd learn where I could and could not go.

In this case, that club is one of the more inaccessable that I've heard of. I think I was in it a few years ago when it was under different management. The stairs are steep. If I was a bouncer, I'd have just refused outright (I would have been apologetic though). Simply because besides all the risks in him being on the premises What if there was a fire etc...) getting him in, out and to & from the toilet would be a nightmare. All that carrying... If I'm not trained to and his friends aren't insured to, it's just too much.

Yeah. I get all that. But I've been inside, on top of and under some pretty inaccessible places in my time. I'm not buying the whole 'if there's a fire' argument.

If you're a chair user on the 8th floor of a hotel, for example, and the fire alarm sounds, the lifts are disabled :pac: - and you've to either get yourself out of there or enlist some help. Down the stairs.

skimpydoo · 11-03-2013 09:44PM

Gatling wrote: »

Most of what I read is hearsay based off fb or people just mouthing off with the whole poor disabled man forced away from club by big bad bouncer ,surprised it hasn't been on late night radio yet

It was briefly on FM104 last night and I am sure it will be on Adrian Kennedy tonight.

kidneyfan · 11-03-2013 09:50PM

There are many people making comments about transvestites, black people and travellers as though there exists a general right for bouncers to turn people away on arbitrary grounds.

There are also some people (many of them bouncers themselves) making reasonable points about safety, the bouncers' own training, the need to maintain staffing levels and some other sensible points.

There are some people flat out lying as with the people saying that the young man who is confined to a wheelchair was carrying a bottle of beer.

There was a bizarre comment that appeared to accuse the young man who was unable to gain access to this nightclub of being a professional litigant.

Most bouncers are very professional but the 'offer' to the young wheelchair bound man's girlfriend that she should carry him down the stairs seems to be from another era.

I sincerely hope that the furore over this event serves the useful puropse of reminding businesspeople that the days when one could arbitrarily discriminate are long gone.

Perhaps rather than using 'agency' staff Madison should hire DOORPEOPLE (ideally people who understand Irish culture and ways of behaving) and remember that the DOORPERSON is the public face of their business.

starlings wrote: »

Not sure that's fair. If you're going to sum up a whole thread, saying "not all obviously, but a lot", you might as well do a quick count of posts.

In this case, I don't think it's assuming that the official is right, rather it's been a mistrust of an angry OP from one party to an argument. It's fair enough to ask for that to be backed up with more information and for the other side to be given a say.

ElleEm · 11-03-2013 09:53PM

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

It was briefly on FM104 last night and I am sure it will be on Adrian Kennedy tonight.

My eardrums are already paining me, imagining what all the "bleedin' howeyas" will have to say about it!

skimpydoo · 11-03-2013 09:55PM

ElleEm wrote: »

My eardrums are already paining me, imagining what all the "bleedin' howeyas" will have to say about it!

Probably not Madison clientele but I bet they will say I am not going there ever.

Grayson · 11-03-2013 09:58PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Yeah. I get all that. But I've been inside, on top of and under some pretty inaccessible places in my time. I'm not buying the whole 'if there's a fire' argument.

If you're a chair user on the 8th floor of a hotel, for example, and the fire alarm sounds, the lifts are disabled :pac: - and you've to either get yourself out of there or enlist some help. Down the stairs.

I get that

The "disabled" people i cared for ranged from people who had MS to people who had been in accidents. Most were fantastic people. Some I'll admit were cnuts, but you'll find that in any sample of people.

Many had set challanges for themselves to prove that they could get past anything in their way. i knew one woman who could barely move who was a published writer (despite the fact that she could only talk by typing out one letter at a time). Others took up sports or other activities. A burning hotel, would pose a challange, but a lot could have managed it.
I know one guy who could have probably gotton into and out of that club, whilst still in the chair. Stairs were no obstacle.
But, if i was a club owner, i would fuckin freak out if i saw him trying it

sfwcork · 11-03-2013 10:00PM

Any1 want to open a betting market on how many of this lads mates have been on this thread stirring the pot?

skimpydoo · 11-03-2013 10:02PM

sfwcork wrote: »

Any1 want to open a betting market on how many of this lads mates have been on this thread stirring the pot?

I can think of a few suspects.

Gatling · 11-03-2013 10:03PM

sfwcork wrote: »

Any1 want to open a betting market on how many of this lads mates have been on this thread stirring the pot?

Its an AH thread would be expect anything else ,

But in saying that it's been pretty civil the most part

Kenny Logins · 11-03-2013 10:04PM

Gatling wrote: »

Its an AH thread would be expect anything else ,

But in saying that it's been pretty civil doe the most part

Surprisingly civil for AH.

starlings · 11-03-2013 10:04PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

There are many people making comments about transvestites, black people and travellers as though there exists a general right for bouncers to turn people away on arbitrary grounds.

There are also some people (many of them bouncers themselves) making reasonable points about safety, the bouncers' own training, the need to maintain staffing levels and some other sensible points.

There are some people flat out lying as with the people saying that the young man who is confined to a wheelchair was carrying a bottle of beer.

There was a bizarre comment that appeared to accuse the young man who was unable to gain access to this nightclub of being a professional litigant.

Most bouncers are very professional but the 'offer' to the young wheelchair bound man's girlfriend that she should carry him down the stairs seems to be from another era.

I sincerely hope that the furore over this event serves the useful puropse of reminding businesspeople that the days when one could arbitrarily discriminate are long gone.

Perhaps rather than using 'agency' staff Madison should hire DOORPEOPLE (ideally people who understand Irish culture and ways of behaving) and remember that the DOORPERSON is the public face of their business.

I don't understand why you quoted me here.

Especially after paraphrasing a whole slew of comments when you could be quoting them, and addressing the posters directly. "Many/some people" aren't going to answer. Or is that your plan?

Kenny Logins · 11-03-2013 10:06PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

There are many people making comments about transvestites, black people and travellers as though there exists a general right for bouncers to turn people away on arbitrary grounds.

There are also some people (many of them bouncers themselves) making reasonable points about safety, the bouncers' own training, the need to maintain staffing levels and some other sensible points.

There are some people flat out lying as with the people saying that the young man who is confined to a wheelchair was carrying a bottle of beer.

There was a bizarre comment that appeared to accuse the young man who was unable to gain access to this nightclub of being a professional litigant.

Most bouncers are very professional but the 'offer' to the young wheelchair bound man's girlfriend that she should carry him down the stairs seems to be from another era.

I sincerely hope that the furore over this event serves the useful puropse of reminding businesspeople that the days when one could arbitrarily discriminate are long gone.

Perhaps rather than using 'agency' staff Madison should hire DOORPEOPLE (ideally people who understand Irish culture and ways of behaving) and remember that the DOORPERSON is the public face of their business.

Put your teenage son back on, he was more entertaining.

skimpydoo · 11-03-2013 10:07PM

Gatling wrote: »

Its an AH thread would be expect anything else ,

But in saying that it's been pretty civil doe the most part

Unlike Facebook and other web forums, it's been very civilised. For example some of the comments on Facebook are well out of order and could even be perceived as threating.

darced · 11-03-2013 10:14PM

This post has been deleted.

starlings · 11-03-2013 10:20PM

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

Unlike Facebook and other web forums, it's been very civilised. For example some of the comments on Facebook are well out of order and could even be perceived as threating.

and they could give Madison a potential case against Bolger for slander and intimidation, since he "published" them on his page...

lik dis if u cryed etc.

Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

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