Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

drdeadlift · 11-03-2013 01:03PM

this is a great trick for exposure.

frank reynolds · 11-03-2013 01:04PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

No, my point was there could be a number of reasons to be refused entry and it's only fair that the OP found out what reason was actually given before starting a thread to run down a business.

it seems to have been just an evil pr!ck of a bouncer who probably would have refused ANYONE at that time.

it wont damage the nightclubs' business. it's monday - so people are in work mode and might be hungover/cranky from the weekend. come friday/saturday again, few drinks at home, and someone says "oh we're going to madison" there wont be any big "im not going there because they dont like disabled people". it will be a big oul' "Yeah lets go, ive had a few drinks and couldnt give a toss about what happened to someone else last week".

it'll be history by wednesday

krudler · 11-03-2013 01:05PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then it isn't proportional. Disabled access has to be taken into consideration, it is the law. If they cant do it, then somewhere there should be a report saying that options were considered and were not practical.

A commercial premises cant just say **** it, even though we are spending millions doing up a property we cant be bothered to build ramp or a lift.

so practicality and cost go out the window in the case of a handful of people who will ever enter the premises, right.

Vojera · 11-03-2013 01:05PM

It's a real shame that the true story probably won't get out. It all depends on what the bouncer said. There's a world of difference between "We don't let your type in here, ya wheely c*nt" and "I'm sorry, but due to health and safety legislation we cannot accommodate you". It doesn't seem like the bouncer had a chance to give his side of the story at all. And who knows, maybe he was an asshole, but with the way things are going he hasn't even had a chance to defend himself.

I also don't get the 45 minute thing at all. You're refused into a club, you go elsewhere. If some of your friends are already inside then you either split into two groups for the night or your friends go to another place with you. You don't argue the point for the guts of an hour.

Dravokivich · 11-03-2013 01:06PM

Noticed his workplace doesn't appear to be all that wheelchair accessible with a few steps leading to the doorway. Seems he doesn't like going places if people don't have to help him in/out.

Cienciano · 11-03-2013 01:06PM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

...and what was the "45 min ordeal of extreme discrimination at the hands of their staff" all about?

All the bouncers got a crowd around him to point and laugh cos he's in a wheelchair.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Forget about customers for a minute. People work in these places and employers are expected to make reasonable provision for disabled people.

No one disagrees, but there's plenty of buildings where it's not reasonable.
Even public buildings dont have to provide access if it's not reasonable.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0014/sec0025.html#sec25

25.—(1) Subject to subsection (4) and section 29 , a public body shall ensure that its public buildings are, as far as practicable, accessible to persons with disabilities.

Here's exceptions for a premisis that supplies services to a public body:

27.—(1) Where a service is provided to a public body, the head of the body shall ensure that the service is accessible to persons with disabilities.
(2) Subsection (1) shall not apply if the provision of access by persons with disabilities to any services provided to the body—
(a) would not be practicable,
(b) would not be justified having regard to the cost of doing so, or
(c) would cause unreasonable delay in making the goods or services available to other persons.

Now, that's access to governemt offices. I'd say private business has even less strict regulations.

galeforcerob · 11-03-2013 01:07PM

can anyone link me to his FB page please? im just seein all this now.
ta

monkeypants · 11-03-2013 01:09PM

The below is from his page.

Graham Bolger is lying. My friend witnessed the whole thing that night...the bouncers said Graham was more than welcome to enter the club but they weren't insured to carry him down the stairs, but that his friends could. His friends went NUTS, screaming and mouthing off at the bouncer. It was at this point the bouncers turned away his group. It is wrong that he has spun it and is using his disability to cover up his bruised ego!

Crimsonforce · 11-03-2013 01:10PM

what a wicked web one weaves when they plan to deceive

Gyalist · 11-03-2013 01:12PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then it isn't proportional. Disabled access has to be taken into consideration, it is the law. If they cant do it, then somewhere there should be a report saying that options were considered and were not practical.

A commercial premises cant just say **** it, even though we are spending millions doing up a property we cant be bothered to build ramp or a lift.

There are a lot of small businesses in the area that operate from basements. It is just not physically possible to retrofit disabled access to most of them. Take a walk around South William Street, Drury Street, Exchequer Street, etc, and you'll see what i mean. Should, for example, the fortune-tellers on South William Street be reasonably expected to fit disabled access to basement premises?

I have been there. I have businesses in the area and when we were refurbishing them I worked with my architect and engineers and it was not possible to make the basements wheelchair accessible.

Grayson · 11-03-2013 01:14PM

Cienciano wrote: »

All the bouncers got a crowd around him to point and laugh cos he's in a wheelchair.

No one disagrees, but there's plenty of buildings where it's not reasonable.
Even public buildings dont have to provide access if it's not reasonable.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0014/sec0025.html#sec25

Here's exceptions for a premisis that supplies services to a public body:

Now, that's access to governemt offices. I'd say private business has even less strict regulations.

Best post so far. I always like to see facts in any kind of discussion like this.

monkeypants · 11-03-2013 01:15PM

Cienciano wrote: »

All the bouncers got a crowd around him to point and laugh cos he's in a wheelchair.

They performed a riverdance number as well, just to rub it in.

Ush1 · 11-03-2013 01:16PM

Who's gonna start the campaign to get the doorman his job back??:pac:

steddyeddy · 11-03-2013 01:16PM

srm23 wrote: »

saw him walking down Grafton street last week not a bother on him.

Please tell me that's not true?

hatrickpatrick · 11-03-2013 01:19PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

There 's no justice like angry mob justice.

Dont know why the management didnt delete and turn off public comments on their FB page and then investigate properly.

Incidently, why did Wilde close?

Another Dublin nightclub did that last summer and the ensuing boycott resulted in its going into receivership within a month.
Of course, in that case the issue was exacerbated by the club writing in its own name "F*ck off you mangey knacker" in response to one of the complaints

Fratton Fred · 11-03-2013 01:21PM

Gyalist wrote: »

I have been there. I have businesses in the area and when we were refurbishing them I worked with my architect and engineers and it was not possible to make the basements wheelchair accessible.

But you considered it still. That is the point.

Hoop66 · 11-03-2013 01:26PM

Grayson wrote: »

Best post so far. I always like to see facts in any kind of discussion like this.

Facts? FACTS?! You can prove anything with facts.

Fratton Fred · 11-03-2013 01:27PM

Grayson wrote: »

Best post so far. I always like to see facts in any kind of discussion like this.

Exactly. It is all about reasonableness. A business cant just arbitrarily decide it won't have any form of disabled access. Your points about the fire brigade were daft, because firemen climb ladders, it is part of a job description and someone in a wheelchair couldn't physically do it.

Cienciano · 11-03-2013 01:29PM

Grayson wrote: »

Best post so far. I always like to see facts in any kind of discussion like this.

There's a section on heritage sites. It even says this:

Access to heritage sites.
29.—(1) (a) The head of a public body shall, as far as practicable, ensure that the whole or a part of a heritage site in its ownership, management or control to which the public has access is accessible to persons with disabilities and can be visited by them with ease and dignity.

Now, I'm guessing "dignity" here means not being carried down stairs. That's ok in an emergency sitation, but not day to day access.

kunst nugget · 11-03-2013 01:33PM

Gyalist wrote: »

Should, for example, the fortune-tellers on South William Street be reasonably expected to fit disabled access to basement premises?

They were okay, they were able to predict that they wouldn't have any wheelchair users as customers so the council let them away with it.

frank reynolds · 11-03-2013 01:37PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But you considered it still. That is the point.

so did the nightclub in question. They wouldnt be allowed to operate/open the business to the public without having been thoroughly checked by different departments of the local authority (in this case it would be DCC).

they probably have the same situation - where it was deemed unnecessary to have a ramp in such an awkwardly shaped premises.

there are MANY nightclubs in Dublin (and i'm sure all over the country) which are in basements and i wouldnt be far off the mark to say that MOST of them do not have wheelchair access.

there are however, MANY other nightclubs and bars which DO, so i cant understand why they didnt go somewhere else.

it's not illegal what the nightclub did. just makes them look bad because of one persons dissagreement with a bouncer.

seems that it was more the "friends" of the guy in the wheelchair that they were refusing - for getting aggressive at the suggestion that THEY would have to do the heavy lifting. so shame on THEM.

Grayson · 11-03-2013 01:40PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Exactly. It is all about reasonableness. A business cant just arbitrarily decide it won't have any form of disabled access. Your points about the fire brigade were daft, because firemen climb ladders, it is part of a job description and someone in a wheelchair couldn't physically do it.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But you considered it still. That is the point.

but in the second post you're saying they never considered it. Or are you saying you don't think they did.

do you have any reason to suspect they didn't. Or any evidence to suggest that it was possible but they didn't bother?

See, all the evidence points to a premises that has access down a massive, steep flight of stairs. and the same up to the bathrooms. Lifts aren't possible since they would go up into another business that's closed at that point. ramps aren't possible since the steps are steep and it would probably take up half the stairway.

If you can give any information to suggest this, then you have a point. But all the evidence supports the club (regarding making it accessible).

Kloecor · 11-03-2013 01:41PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Punished? Not gaining access to a nightclub is punishment now?

Well if I was in a wheelchair and that happened to me in front of friends I'd be quite embarrassed and I'm sure I'd go home feeling pretty crappy about the whole thing. And it was only because he was in a wheelchair. Not for being overly drunk, or being aggressive etc. I'm just putting myself in his shoes

Gatling · 11-03-2013 01:44PM

OK lets say the chap in person kicked up such a fuss the door men carried him down the stairs and he feel out of the chair or one one the or a bouncer tripped and feel would he be taking legal action too,

If you know somewhere isn't accessible to you why force the issue and take to Facebook or twitter making it out somebody was actually wronged ,trial by social network is plain wrong where the facts are rarely put across

Vojera · 11-03-2013 01:46PM

Kloecor wrote: »

And it was only because he was in a wheelchair. Not for being overly drunk, or being aggressive etc.

According to him and his friends. How do we know that's true? We're only getting one side.

Stercus Accidit · 11-03-2013 01:48PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Exactly. It is all about reasonableness. A business cant just arbitrarily decide it won't have any form of disabled access. Your points about the fire brigade were daft, because firemen climb ladders, it is part of a job description and someone in a wheelchair couldn't physically do it.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about, your estimate of a '€50 million' budget is absolutely hilarious.

In a change of use of a premises which is what happened at this venue, reasonable provisions have to be made to accommodate wheelchair users etc. You don't get to arbitrarily decide what planning remits you follow, all architectural and engineering drawings are submitted to the local council for appraisal at the planning stage. Special consideration is given to accessibility and fire compliance.
Dublin City Council also decided that there was not a need for a lift in this premises, it probably fell under one of a few exceptions, likely due to being infeasible.
I know this because when we were drafting the planning drawings for a city centre change of use for a premises into a nightclub we had to have fire corridors and a lift. If the Madison did not have a lift installed they must have had a very good logistical reason not to do so, it was probably unreasonable to install one and DCC agreed.

WoollyRedHat · 11-03-2013 01:50PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I wonder would you accept responsibility? With mounting medical bills depending on the injury and the fact you can sue the establishment and more than likely win you'd really pay the thousands the injury might end up costing you?

Experiments have shown that most people will do all kinds of unspeakable acts if their ordered to do so.

I don't know about this particular guy but the only reason there are wheelchair accessible buses is because wheelchair users kicked up a fuss about it in the past. It is only right wheelchair users do make accessibility issues a public concern. If they don't the issues just get ignored for the trending public outcry.

I'm aware of that, and it's interesting, but that person was trying to equate the bouncers to that of the Nazis, madness.

anncoates · 11-03-2013 01:52PM

Moron mob 1

Common sense 0

Gyalist · 11-03-2013 01:55PM

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

You haven't a clue what you are talking about, your estimate of a '€50 million' budget is absolutely hilarious.

In a change of use of a premises which is what happened at this venue, reasonable provisions have to be made to accommodate wheelchair users etc. You don't get to arbitrarily decide what planning remits you follow, all architectural and engineering drawings are submitted to the local council for appraisal at the planning stage. Special consideration is given to accessibility and fire compliance.
Dublin City Council also decided that there was not a need for a lift in this premises, it probably fell under one of a few exceptions, likely due to being infeasible.
I know this because when we were drafting the planning drawings for a city centre change of use for a premises into a nightclub we had to have fire corridors and a lift. If the Madison did not have a lift installed they must have had a very good logistical reason not to do so, it was probably unreasonable to install one and DCC agreed.

On Echequer Street/Wicklow Street I can only think of Fallon & Byrne, Brown Thomas and possibly Tower Records who have lifts installed.

RainyDay · 11-03-2013 01:56PM

deconduo wrote: »

When I did a fire safety training course, we were told to leave people in wheelchairs in a safe place as far away from the fire as possible. Then to inform the fire brigade that there were people in wheelchairs still inside when they arrived.

Would you be happy to wait inside with them?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There are safe havens in each stairwell where peopor who cant make it down the stairs can wait for assistance.

There are refuge areas in SOME firewells. They are intended as 'temporary waiting areas'. It is not the responsibility of the fire service to evacuate anyone from a building. Those in charge of a building must be able to evacuate the building themselves.

Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

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