Engineers Ireland Report 2013

murphaph wrote: »

Erm, the infrastructural investment would be to alleviate these choke points or bypass them completely (by going underground, as other cities have been doing since 1863).

Agreed that DU is part of the solution, but like other cities around the same size and make up as Dublin, we also need to look at how streets are used -- ie more bus only streets, looking at cyclist only streets, more pedistrain streets etc.

Well, today is a good time to bring this one up.

Dublin airport was closed for a while as a result of an accident. The cross wind runway was opened, and operations resumed.

A few weeks ago, the main runway was closed for 7 hours to allow for a large pothole to be repaired, and numerous comments were made that the main runway was in poor condition, and would need significant repair before long.

There are airlines that have considered operating into Dublin, but their ability to do so is compromised by the length of the main runway, which is too short to allow fully loaded operation of larger aircraft such as a 747 freighter, and similar aircraft.

The numbers traveling through Dublin have dropped in recent years, due to the recession, but they are not that far below the point where to avoid congestion and delays to flights, a second runway will be needed.

It seems to me that some means of funding the construction of that runway needs to be found now, in order to ensure that the future growth of trade with the Far East and other parts of the world is not compromised, and to ensure that the existing runway can be refurbished without putting the operation of the airport at risk, the wind strengths at Dublin are sufficiently strong that there would be problems for smaller aircraft if the only runway available is the cross wind runway.

A new runway will not be built in 5 minutes, there is a huge workload of preparation, and ancillary services that have to be in place before the actual strip is laid.

Constructing it now, before the existing runway becomes unserviceable looks to me like a very good idea, as once the new runway is built, there will then be a period of time when there will still only be one runway that is facing the prevailing wind, as the existing runway will require to be significantly refurbished in order to enable its continued use.

So, given that the airport is a fundamental part of the future communication and travel requirements for the entire island, and there is no viable alternative to Dublin, I have to say that it looks to me as if the second runway needs to be brought forward before it becomes critical and has to be pushed through as a panic measure to avoid disruption.

There will be plenty of people that will rise up in protest at this thought, but we have to look at the long term implications for the Irish Economy as a whole, and a working, reliable viable international airport that can cater for fully loaded flights that are carrying freight AND passengers to and from all parts is essential to the long term success and growth of the Irish Economy.

This is a big project, and it needs state and EU funding, because it's bigger than facilitating Ryanair and Aer Lingus to operate more flights to the sun, and bigger than the ability of DAA to run the airport profitably, this is about enabling imports and exports from places like the countries of Southern Africa, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Japan, and other parts of the Far East. bringing and taking products and visitors that will be an essential part of the economic recovery that has to happen for Ireland to again become a vibrant economy.

There can be little doubt that DAA have made some serious mistakes, but given the number of political appointees to that organisation, that's hardly surprising. We cannot afford to allow the mistakes of the past years to hinder and perhaps even block the future development of the entire country,

A project of this nature would provide much needed employment in a sector that's suffered badly, and ensure that the ongoing operation of the airport would not be compromised, as well as preparing it for the future traffic that will happen as things change over the coming years.

The biggest problem will be persuading the relevant people at EU level that this is a project that needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Last I heard was that there were discussions of making it 3660 mtrs, but I don't know if that's correct or not, the essential aspect is that it needs to be capable of supporting the operation of fully loaded 747's of whatever variety, and the A380, those are the aircraft of choice at the moment for long haul, which will be a factor in Dublin's future.

Strangely enough, before all the security nonsense and the like, it was possible to transfer from one flight to another airside without the security nonsense, and if it were possible now, it would enhance Dublin's potential as a hub for Trans Atlantic routes.

I don't think there's any doubt that DAA have made some significant mistakes over the years, but a lot of that can be attributed to political manipulation and political appointees to the board, which did no favours to the operation.

The problem we have at the moment is that there is no one prepared to look at anything long term, the politicians have us all locked into never looking beyond the next election, and that's one of the things that's damaging the economy big time, the time needed for many infrastructure projects is much longer than the average politicians attention span, so those sorts of issues tend to fall off the radar, as those same politicians do not expect to see a political return from such projects, so they lose interest very rapidly. Then there's the problem that some projects may actually not be popular, and you may be sure that the same politicians will either defer them, or blame someone else for them, for the same reasons.

Given the right facilities, Dublin could handle a lot more international and transatlantic traffic than it does, especially if the American pre clearance were to be promoted. That's not been happening, it's all very low key at the moment, for whatever reason.

The important issue is that Dublin needs to have international standard facilities in order to compete internationally, for both passengers and cargo. At the moment, the cargo facilities are a shambles, very old, and very low capacity, which has meant that air cargo handllng is still at a very low level compared to many other airports, and the DAA seems to have done very little to improve that situation, and seems to have little interest in doing anything to change it, their focus seems to be based on making the airport Ireland's largest pub, which does little to enhance the reputation of the airport, way too often, passengers are missing when needed for boarding, and are found in a bar somewhere.

Hopefully, before it's too late, someone will get the relevant politicians to take notice of the massive importance that Dublin Airport has in the island wide economy, and make sure that failings there don't have a negative impact on the rest of the country. We can but hope, past history is not encouraging in that respect.

Aidan1 wrote: »

1. Politics. There's no doubt but that Dublin needs a new runway (and not a new airport as some would have it), but SNN, as a newly independent entity, is making a play for international/widebody traffic, both as a cargo hub and as a service base. A new runway in Dublin, particularly anything longer than 3.5km would be a major problem for those ambitions.

2. Numbers. Shannon is now the third largest airport in the State, having fallen well behind Cork over the last few years (1.4m passengers plays 2.3m in 2012). Moveover, the direct area it serves is not doing well economically, with both Cork and Galway steaming ahead of it in terms of the recovery. And while Galway is only an hour from SNN, it's also only two hours from Dublin, and less again from Knock.

In both cases, any investment in either Cork or Dublin would pose a major challenge to SNN's ability to stay open (there are plans in place for a runway extension in Cork too).

Number 1. Dublin needs the longer runway for larger aircraft. What Dublin does not have is acres of spare space for parking larger aircraft, and for larger maintenance hangars, so a 3.6 Km runway represents zero threat to Shannon operations for cargo or maintenance, as both activities require large allocations of space for parking, support services and equipment, which are extremely easy to facilitate at Shannon, and almost impossible at Dublin, the cargo facilities at Dublin right now are pitiful, both in terms of size and capability, and with the recent development of Terminal 2, they are completely in the wrong place, dragging large freight dollies long distances around the airport is a disaster waiting to happen, both in terms of costings and in terms of safety, cargo dollies are not the nicest of things to tow at the best of times, and rattling them over or through drainage channels and the like does not do the contents of the pallets any good at all.

Maintenance requires even more space, especially for some types of work, if there is a delay for spares, or non payment by a customer, the aircraft has to be put somewhere.

Dublin is already having to use the former 11/29 runway for parking, that won't be possible when the new runway gets built, and I've yet to see a multi storey car park for aircraft.

Maybe the simple solution is to build a new fit for purpose International airport near Athlone, with ultra fast rail links to the places that need them, and close Dublin , Shannon and Cork. I can hear the cheering from Portmarnock now, and I'm in Devon:P

Won't happen, if for no other reason than the Parish Pump mentality.