2013 NFL DRAFT

davyjose · 03-03-2013 12:49PM

Fenix wrote: »

Bit of a newbie question but its been annoying me, Why to KC pick #1 in the 1st and #2 in the 2nd?

Kansas get first overall pick due to their less difficult strength of schedule than Jacksonville. But because they finished with the same record, it gets reversed for round two. Basically.

Dublin Red Devil · 03-03-2013 03:45PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He has NFL quality, good enough to make a team and - if he improves - potentially play a few years in the league. The problem is that his stock up to the National Championship game was considered top 10 in the first round worthy when that patently isn't the case.

I reckon he likely goes bottom of the first / top of the second. He'll have to work very hard during his first 18 - 24 months in the league not to be out of it after a few years though.

I've heard some reporters say that if they were NFL GM's they would just stay clear of Te'o. He is already a "celebrity" for the wrong reasons which have nothing to do with his game. They ask the question is he even good enough and Can he be trusted?

Justin10 · 03-03-2013 03:47PM

Manti in very simple terms, because no real point over complicating things because we are all guessing even scouts

He is not going to be able to get to the QB imo, he wont have the speed or power with agility to do that.

I do think he will be very good in coverage, Before the championship game I would of said he be a good run stopper by wrapping up tackles.
That is now a major concern. especially with much bigger backs in the NFL.

JaMarcus Hustle · 03-03-2013 04:12PM

Rochey18 wrote: »

He is not going to be able to get to the QB imo, he wont have the speed or power with agility to do that.

Hardly a major requirement from middle linebackers to be fair

I think he'll be a solid starter after a season or 2. Not a Patrick Willis or a Jon Beason, but a guy that will be good enough to be top of his position in the depth chart unless a Beason/Willis/Cushing etc. joins the team.

Justin10 · 03-03-2013 04:16PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Hardly a major requirement from middle linebackers to be fair

I think he'll be a solid starter after a season or 2. Not a Patrick Willis or a Jon Beason, but a guy that will be good enough to be top of his position in the depth chart unless a Beason/Willis/Cushing etc. joins the team.

No of course its not a major requirement. The other two I mentioned are, but I don't think he be able to get into the backfield to the QB or make tackles for a loss.

I do think he be better suited to a 3-4.

Chucky the tree · 03-03-2013 04:52PM

Te'o should be a 2nd - 3rd round guy. He'll be a solid starter but nothing more. I think he's got a high floor but a low ceiling. If your drafting Te'o in the first you'd want to be A) desperate

hate everyone else in the draft or C) stupid.

HigginsJ · 03-03-2013 04:53PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Hardly a major requirement from middle linebackers to be fair

I think he'll be a solid starter after a season or 2. Not a Patrick Willis or a Jon Beason, but a guy that will be good enough to be top of his position in the depth chart unless a Beason/Willis/Cushing etc. joins the team.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of Te'o there!!

My worry with Te'o is that there really isn't alot of potential. He has limited upside for me. If he took a bit of fall down the draft boards I'd be happy for the Giants to get him in the 3rd. I wouldn't waste our 2nd round pick on him.

HigginsJ · 03-03-2013 04:55PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Te'o should be a 2nd - 3rd round guy. He'll be a solid starter but nothing more. I think he's got a high floor but a low ceiling. If your drafting Te'o in the first you'd want to be A) desperate hate everyone else in the draft or C) stupid.

I honestly didnt read your post before posting my very similar comments!!!

JaMarcus Hustle · 03-03-2013 05:10PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Hardly a ringing endorsement of Te'o there!!

It wasn't supposed to be! I think he'll be good, but not great. There's 4 or 5 middle linebackers I'd take before Te'o, in order - Alec Ogletree, Kevin Minter, Arthur Brown and Kiki Alonso. I'm also thinking that Khaseem Greene would look good in a 3-4 at inside linebacker, though he's probably more of an outside guy. But I'd be happy with Te'o, depending on my team's needs - at the end of the second or third.

HigginsJ · 03-03-2013 05:33PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

It wasn't supposed to be! I think he'll be good, but not great. There's 4 or 5 middle linebackers I'd take before Te'o, in order - Alec Ogletree, Kevin Minter, Arthur Brown and Kiki Alonso. I'm also thinking that Khaseem Greene would look good in a 3-4 at inside linebacker, though he's probably more of an outside guy. But I'd be happy with Te'o, depending on my team's needs - at the end of the second or third.

I'd agree with most of that but I would take Te'o before Alonso.

Would Greene be capable of playing MLB in a 4-3. I have seen little bit of him and like him alot. He moved from safety to LB if I'm not mistaken so he would be an excellent fit for what Fewell was trying to do on D towards end of last year.

JaMarcus Hustle · 03-03-2013 05:53PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd agree with most of that but I would take Te'o before Alonso.

Would Greene be capable of playing MLB in a 4-3. I have seen little bit of him and like him alot. He moved from safety to LB if I'm not mistaken so he would be an excellent fit for what Fewell was trying to do on D towards end of last year.

I don't see why not. One of the best, sure tacklers in the draft. Very athletic and plays quicker than his combine numbers suggest, fantastic in coverage. He's bulked up a small bit since Rutgers too and there's no real difference now between him and the likes of Ogletree, Minter, Alonso or Te'o. I think he'd be great weakside linebacker in a 4-3.

robluvshandegg · 03-03-2013 11:19PM

My guy for the draft is Tyrann Mathieu. People will point to his lack of size, so-so coverage abilities and his off-field mistakes as the main drawbacks with the guy, in reply I'd ask them to look at the tape. This guy is a 'playmaker'. He not only survived in the SEC against pro-quality opposition, he thrived in it. He plays like he is much bigger, is a very effective tackler, and creates turnovers. He's also a pretty good kick return man. There is a place in the NFL for this guy and I'd love to see him get drafted by a team who can use him the right way and can take care of him off the field. I'd think it would be disaster if he were picked up by Oakland or Detroit or anyone who mightn't be able to handle him correctly. Would love to see him play for the Giants or Pats.
hi-res-136646556_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

hi-res-136646556_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

My 1st value guy is WR Ryan Swope out of Texas A&M. He ran a 4.34 40 at the combine, so any questions about his speed should be answered. He is a production guy, he runs his routes cleanly and efficiently and has a very safe pair of hands. He's a converted running back who can take some punishment and apparently he's a pretty decent blocker for a WR! The easy comparison is Wes Welker..........he is basically Wes Welker.
hi-res-157366369_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

hi-res-157366369_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

My 2nd Value guy is Brad Wing (Punter)! The guy is a top notch Aussie punter who has both power and accuracy. He will be a huge asset to any team looking to flip the field to help out a defence, and he even possesses some decent athleticism for a punter so he could be an interesting option on fakes. Would love to Chip Kelly get this guy for the Eagles, he'd definitely use him a few times. Brad%20Wing(2).gif

JaMarcus Hustle · 03-03-2013 11:24PM

^ The play that came before that Brad Wing photo was amazing, and had one of the worst penalty flags I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_TGuoLdmk

matthew8 · 03-03-2013 11:43PM

Looks like Australian Rules Football is a great way to learn the trade of punting.

taidghbaby · 04-03-2013 09:02AM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

^ The play that came before that Brad Wing photo was amazing, and had one of the worst penalty flags I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_TGuoLdmk

That was one of my favourite plays in college football the previous year!

Do any of ye have any views on William Gholston? Talk of him having a chance at a first round spot before the season started, but most mocks I've seen have him in the 3rd/4th! Was it a bad year for him?

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2013 09:50AM

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

I've heard some reporters say that if they were NFL GM's they would just stay clear of Te'o. He is already a "celebrity" for the wrong reasons which have nothing to do with his game. They ask the question is he even good enough and Can he be trusted?

They're not NFL GM's though, are they? The NFL loves talent in all its forms.

He is clearly good enough to add to an NFL Roster, even if he isn't a future Hall of Famer.

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2013 09:56AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Hardly a ringing endorsement of Te'o there!!

Saying someone will be good enough to be top of the depth chart after a couple of years is a fine endorsement!

One of the stupid aspects of the Draft each year is the 'future star / scrub' nature of the general conversation. A franchise that drafts a future above league average starter has done very well for themselves with any pick. The only exception is the top few first round selections where you are really hoping to get a franchise building block - but even those picks aren't as vital as they used to be given the new rookie contract rules.

It's really difficult to start in the NFL. Average career length is a couple of years, so if you feel confident in saying someone is a future long term starter you're really high on their ability.

frostie500 · 04-03-2013 11:01AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

One of the stupid aspects of the Draft each year is the 'future star / scrub' nature of the general conversation. A franchise that drafts a future above league average starter has done very well for themselves with any pick. The only exception is the top few first round selections where you are really hoping to get a franchise building block - but even those picks aren't as vital as they used to be given the new rookie contract rules.

It's really difficult to start in the NFL. Average career length is a couple of years, so if you feel confident in saying someone is a future long term starter you're really high on their ability.

Very true Lloyd. The way that I approach the first round draft is that the top five picks should all be capable of being All Pro players on a semi regular basis. 6-20 should be consistent Pro Bowlers and occasional All-Pros and 21-32 should all be regular starters. Round 2 should also give you regular starters with 3 and four giving you a lot of your situational players. Having starters/backups from the last three rounds is a bonus, by and large.

If you can draft like that you'll build a successful roster. I don't understand why so many people think that the top picks have to be future hall of famers and that a first round player has to be lights out. If you can get consistent starters from your top picks the front office is doing a very good job

Chucky the tree · 04-03-2013 12:58PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

^ The play that came before that Brad Wing photo was amazing, and had one of the worst penalty flags I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_TGuoLdmk

Why?

It was the correct call.

JaMarcus Hustle · 04-03-2013 01:01PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Why? It was the correct call.

By the rules, yes.

But it's an incredibly stupid rule.

robluvshandegg · 04-03-2013 01:47PM

frostie500 wrote: »

Very true Lloyd. The way that I approach the first round draft is that the top five picks should all be capable of being All Pro players on a semi regular basis. 6-20 should be consistent Pro Bowlers and occasional All-Pros and 21-32 should all be regular starters. Round 2 should also give you regular starters with 3 and four giving you a lot of your situational players. Having starters/backups from the last three rounds is a bonus, by and large.

If you can draft like that you'll build a successful roster. I don't understand why so many people think that the top picks have to be future hall of famers and that a first round player has to be lights out. If you can get consistent starters from your top picks the front office is doing a very good job

Could you define regular starter, is that 16 games for 5 years? Cause surely to be good enough to play consistently in the NFL the line between you and an All-Pro/Pro Bowler isn't going to be that big. Is a 'regular' starter just a guy who is just there until you get someone better?

LuckyLloyd · 04-03-2013 02:00PM

robluvshandegg wrote: »

Could you define regular starter, is that 16 games for 5 years? Cause surely to be good enough to play consistently in the NFL the line between you and an All-Pro/Pro Bowler isn't going to be that big. Is a 'regular' starter just a guy who is just there until you get someone better?

It's huge!

There are plenty of players good enough to start somewhere but not good enough to be All Pro. A good example would be Ben Watson who played TE for NE for a few seasons. Started games for 8 years in the league, never would have been considered one of the best Tight Ends around. He was a productive contributer to New England for five seasons (seriously injured during his rookie year). Not a terrible result for a bottom of the first round pick imo.

American sports as a whole has a real problem with the various grades in between 'GOAT' and 'scrub'. There are ~1700 active rostered players every week of the regular season. ~100 will make it onto some manner of an end of season honours list. Half of the 1700 have minimal roster security and are in danger of getting lost in the wash from one season to the next (225 draftees + multitudes of undrafted free agents coming on stream every year). But in any year you'll have a few hundred guys who are in the middle of a viable run in the league and, barring unforseen disaster, are going to be high up the depth chart of an NFL roster the following year.

If you can consistently bring in a few guys at that level with draft picks and undrafted free agent signings every year your franchise is going to be in decent shape.

TO. · 04-03-2013 03:35PM

I have to agree with LuckyLloyd and Frostie. A good draft is a draft where the higher the pick the higher the expectation then mid round at least pro bowlers and then bottom of the round you found a roster full of starting players. Guys who fit your mold right away had a solid camp and started right away. The front offices that can see beyond the hype and really do their homework are the ones who generally wade through the thrash and find the gems in the draft even if they pick in the top half of round 1.

If you end up finding some more HOF guys out of the guys you picked that is the added bonus but the key is to find guys that are ready to step up and make an impact right away so you can throw out the old or garbage on your team that is holding you down.

The biggest problem for the draft is teams biting on hype. And the one drawback to trying to find the right players is predicting what will happen to the players they pick. Plenty of sure thing busts in the past.

Chucky the tree · 04-03-2013 03:58PM

There is a difficulty is weighting position and need when deciding who to pick as well. Certain teams/GM's will have a best player available attitude no matter what while others might try and fill some holes. Looking at the Raiders this year it's very difficult to know what they should do. If we wanted to go the BPA/sensible route we'd take a Fisher(giving that Joeckel is gone) and play him at RT, or could even go Warmack as a guard. Although drafting a RT and a guard in the top 5 is not considered a very good decision. We could try and fill a need for a pass rusher by taking a risk on Jordan, Jones, Ansah etc.

Dublin Red Devil · 04-03-2013 04:26PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

^ The play that came before that Brad Wing photo was amazing, and had one of the worst penalty flags I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT_TGuoLdmk

That's fcking stupid. Coaches wanted the rule? Sure they did, Until it comes around and bits them in the ass

TO. · 04-03-2013 04:36PM

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

That's fcking stupid. Coaches wanted the rule? Sure they did, Until it comes around and bits them in the ass

The NCAA are trying to stamp out taunting and most of the colleges agreed to let the rule in. The way they see it ALL taunting has to be stamped out and not just certain versions of it. So the NCAA have taken a stance to stamp all of it out. Whether we agree with it or not, it is a rule, as stupid as it is.

I coach here and we use NCAA rules and I hate the taunting rule but I have to tell guys not to do it as stupid as it is. Also I will be coaching in the US and along with the other coaches I am sure the same talks will come up with players to not do it.

HigginsJ · 04-03-2013 04:49PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

There is a difficulty is weighting position and need when deciding who to pick as well. Certain teams/GM's will have a best player available attitude no matter what while others might try and fill some holes. Looking at the Raiders this year it's very difficult to know what they should do. If we wanted to go the BPA/sensible route we'd take a Fisher(giving that Joeckel is gone) and play him at RT, or could even go Warmack as a guard. Although drafting a RT and a guard in the top 5 is not considered a very good decision. We could try and fill a need for a pass rusher by taking a risk on Jordan, Jones, Ansah etc.

What's happening with Carson Palmer this off-season. Will he re-structure, take a pay cut or just be cut?

I thought Star Lotulelei would have been a great pick to re-energise your D before the heart scare and if he gets the all clear I would go with him. What do you make of the Geno Smith to Raiders speculation?

Chucky the tree · 04-03-2013 05:59PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

What's happening with Carson Palmer this off-season. Will he re-structure, take a pay cut or just be cut?

I thought Star Lotulelei would have been a great pick to re-energise your D before the heart scare and if he gets the all clear I would go with him. What do you make of the Geno Smith to Raiders speculation?

He'll be asked to take a pay-cut and if hot he'll be told to gtfo. Yea Star would have been a very possible choice alright. Hard to know on Smith, it could very well just be rumours coming for the Jags but I wouldn't be shocked if we took him either. Hard to know exactly what drafting style Reggie has since this is his first time with a 1st round pick. In a draft with not a much amount of elite prospects in might just take a risk on Smith.

JaMarcus Hustle · 04-03-2013 06:13PM

Raiders would be wise to go with Fisher imo. A tackle tandom of Fisher and Veldheer would be one of the best young duos in the league and would be a solid foundation to build on. Put as many pieces in place this year as possible and then take one of the QB's next year. A far better selection to choose from - obviously difficult to say who'll declare and who won't, but you have the likes of David Fales (who's already my binky for 2014, love the guy), McCarron, Boyd and Murray. Bridgewater and Manziel could even declare.

Having said that, this time last year, this year's class looked a hell of a lot better than it does now.

TO. · 04-03-2013 07:53PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Raiders would be wise to go with Fisher imo. A tackle tandom of Fisher and Veldheer would be one of the best young duos in the league and would be a solid foundation to build on. Put as many pieces in place this year as possible and then take one of the QB's next year. A far better selection to choose from - obviously difficult to say who'll declare and who won't, but you have the likes of David Fales (who's already my binky for 2014, love the guy), McCarron, Boyd and Murray. Bridgewater and Manziel could even declare.

Having said that, this time last year, this year's class looked a hell of a lot better than it does now.

There was hints that Maziel has already told A&M he is will finish college after this coming season. And with his interview with Kirk Herstreit at the weekend he again hinted at declaring for the 2014 draft. Seems likely now he will declare unless something else comes a long and changes his mind.

2013 NFL DRAFT

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