Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

MadsL · 01-03-2013 02:11AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I didn't realise there was a correct way to use boards??.

It's an old joke about the number of posts per page...never mind

MadsL · 01-03-2013 02:13AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

what if coy DOESN'T have GID, what do you think this public dog and pony show will do to the kid as they hit puberty? .

Probably less than telling the kid "No, you can't wear that!" for the next 8 years.

MikeD22 · 01-03-2013 02:41AM

MadsL wrote: »

16 pages as I am using boards correctly.

And you over a year here and you still can't use quote tags. Is this a record?

I can use them but i saw no need to quote the horse sh1te

Seems easy to wind you up. I think it might be time turn off the computer and go do something you enjoy before you burst.

MadsL · 01-03-2013 02:43AM

MikeD22 wrote: »

I can use them but i saw no need to quote the horse sh1te

Seems easy to wind you up. I think it might be time turn off the computer and go do something you enjoy before you burst.

Thanks for the advice. Got a tip for the 3.20 at Wolverhampton tomorrow too?

MikeD22 · 01-03-2013 02:47AM

MadsL wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. Got a tip for the 3.20 at Wolverhampton tomorrow too?

No..

Scruffles · 01-03-2013 03:00AM

just an idea that woud allow the lad to go to school...but what if they let him use the disabled bogs?
these are all singular gender neutral units so no one else can complain about how he woud affect others, and in a mainstream school there will not be many disabled students who need to access the toilet,plus itd stop any possibility of bullying or fake abuse acusations to if there were any girls of that mentality around.

some people are assuming its non trans people judging the parents because they dont understand gender identity issues,am trans [adrogynous] and still feel there is some projected influence from the parents in his gender identity,only time will tell when he has age on his side to look back on and decide for himself.

fasttalkerchat · 01-03-2013 03:05AM

Scruffles wrote: »

just an idea that woud allow the lad to go to school...but what if they let him use the disabled bogs?
these are all singular gender neutral units so no one else can complain about how he woud affect others, and in a mainstream school there will not be many disabled students who need to access the toilet,plus itd stop any possibility of bullying or fake abuse acusations to if there were any girls of that mentality around.

some people are assuming its non trans people judging the parents because they dont understand gender identity issues,am trans [adrogynous] and still feel there is some projected influence from the parents in his gender identity,only time will tell when he has age on his side to look back on and decide for himself.

I think the child was given the option of using the nurse's toilet also, I assume this is a dual use toilet.

If a person was born male but feels female would they usually want to use a female toilet? Is it not only those who dress as female who would want to use a female toilet?

How Soon Is Now · 01-03-2013 03:31AM

Oh look another one of these threads..... Shame I turned up so late to the party cause reading threw most the thread and the general reaction to it im ****ing delighted :-)

Jimoslimos · 01-03-2013 03:38AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

GK keeps mentioning the case of David Reimner, but a case like that pales in comparison to the number of trans persons who having chosen to undergo gender reassignment surgery, later regret their decision having done so.

The transgender community doesn't like to acknowledge those people though half as quickly as one tragic case that works for their world view.

Actually in relation to that case, as I understand it, it is more a cautionary tale of forced transgenderism.

The boy was male, biologically. XY. A doctor botched a routine cosmetic op on his penis and decided to implement some hair-brained hypothesis on gender identity (psychology can sail darn close to quackery at times). He underwent gender realignment and was put on female hormones. He was a CHILD FFS. Regardless of whether he did or didn't want those procedures no doctor should have even considered that acceptable practice.

Yet some here would probably argue if the kid (Coy) asked for surgery and hormones before puberty he should be given it in the morning. Because it's what he wants. You're denying his basic human rights of needless surgery and a lifetime of extremely dangerous and potent drugs.

The only gender identity a pre-pubescent child has is as a result of stereotypes projected onto to them from society. Boys wear blue, fight and play football. Girls wear pink, have tea parties and play with dolls. Interestingly go back 100 years and those colours were switched, so mere fashion trends dictating gender identity.

When will people stop making children feel 'bad' about their genitals? Heaven knows the CC did it for long enough.

MadsL · 01-03-2013 04:04AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Yet some here would probably argue if the kid (Coy) asked for surgery and hormones before puberty he should be given it in the morning. Because it's what he wants. You're denying his basic human rights of needless surgery and a lifetime of extremely dangerous and potent drugs.
.

Once again this is brought up, NOBODY, either in this thread or the parents, or psychologists have suggested nor supported that.

You accused me of strawmanning on another thread, now you deliver the biggest strawman on this thread. Stop it, and retract it.

MadsL · 01-03-2013 04:06AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

When will people stop making children feel 'bad' about their genitals? Heaven knows the CC did it for long enough.

In this case it is the school doing that, not the other kids, nor the parents.

Jimoslimos · 01-03-2013 04:32AM

MadsL wrote: »

Once again this is brought up, NOBODY, either in this thread or the parents, or psychologists have suggested nor supported that.

You accused me of strawmanning on another thread, now you deliver the biggest strawman on this thread. Stop it, and retract it.

Answer the question. Would you support gender realignment and hormone therapy on a child if they requested it?

Despite your posturing about strawmans it is a pertinent question relating to the topic of this thread. Given that TG individuals can only be legally recognised in their new 'chosen' gender after rigorous assessment, hormone therapy and in some cases surgery. A 4yo boy will have had none of these - therefore cannot be accepted legally as a girl by the school.

MadsL · 01-03-2013 04:45AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Answer the question. Would you support gender realignment and hormone therapy on a child if they requested it?

You didn't ask a question, you made a supposition. But now you are asking, no, I would not support that at such a young age. There is probably pages of discussion for what age it would be appropriate - and somewhere after puberty is probably where that discussion should focus on.

Despite your posturing about strawmans it is a pertinent question relating to the topic of this thread. Given that TG individuals can only be legally recognised in their new 'chosen' gender after rigorous assessment, hormone therapy and in some cases surgery. A 4yo boy will have had none of these - therefore cannot be accepted legally as a girl by the school.

You are mistaking fully post-op transgendered for pre-op. The law in Colorado makes no distinction, and Coy has the full protection of that law now that a diagnosis has been made.

Keep barking, but that is the wrong tree.

MadsL · 01-03-2013 05:32AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

GK keeps mentioning the case of David Reimner, but a case like that pales in comparison to the number of trans persons who having chosen to undergo gender reassignment surgery, later regret their decision having done so.

The transgender community doesn't like to acknowledge those people though half as quickly as one tragic case that works for their world view.

Don't worry about any sources, studies or links for that. No-one will pull you up on that piece of sloppy pure opinion.

fasttalkerchat · 01-03-2013 06:00AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

GK keeps mentioning the case of David Reimner, but a case like that pales in comparison to the number of trans persons who having chosen to undergo gender reassignment surgery, later regret their decision having done so.

The transgender community doesn't like to acknowledge those people though half as quickly as one tragic case that works for their world view.

I would take that case as suggesting that you are what you were born and this cant change or be changed. Why would trans people use that example? Surely that goes against their argument that you can change.

I'm not saying that the case proves anything, just that it supports one side more than the other.

CollardGreens · 01-03-2013 06:06AM

Is this thread still going on???? Oh well, this would be appropriate....

G.K. · 01-03-2013 08:58AM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I would take that case as suggesting that you are what you were born and this cant change or be changed. Why would trans people use that example? Surely that goes against their argument that you can change.

I'm not saying that the case proves anything, just that it supports one side more than the other.

My point was that it shows you can't change, yes. Just not in the way you think. If Coy is indeed mentally a girl then it would be incredibly harmful to make her live as otherwise.

Reimer was mentally male and so was made to live a horrible first decade or so told that he was something he was not.

fasttalkerchat · 01-03-2013 09:16AM

G.K. wrote: »

My point was that it shows you can't change, yes. Just not in the way you think. If Coy is indeed mentally a girl then it would be incredibly harmful to make her live as otherwise.

Reimer was mentally male and so was made to live a horrible first decade or so told that he was something he was not.

Ah I get you now. So someone is mentally the other sex even before they start dressing differently, hormones, physical changes. I suppose that makes sense too.

Czarcasm · 01-03-2013 09:20AM

MadsL wrote: »

[SIZE="3"]Once again this is brought up, NOBODY, either in this thread or the parents, or psychologists have suggested nor supported that. [/SIZE]

You accused me of strawmanning on another thread, now you deliver the biggest strawman on this thread. Stop it, and retract it.

It was actually mango a while back in the thread that suggested the use of hormone blockers. So one minute you're allowing for nature by saying the child was born in the wrong body, but when the nature doesn't suit you, you'll show it with your man-made hormone blockers!

Because man vs nature always worked out well. In our short term solution thinking maybe we've forgotten that evolution takes millenia, and transgender persons could be another evolutionary stage in human development, but humans know better because we've only been around the last 15 seconds compared to the age of the earth.

We'll make nature conform to our standard world view because it makes us more comfortable.

The irony would be delicious, if it wasn't so distasteful.

Czarcasm · 01-03-2013 09:25AM

MadsL wrote: »

Don't worry about any sources, studies or links for that. No-one will pull you up on that piece of sloppy pure opinion.

Are you allergic to Google Mad? It's just a personal thing with me but I hate quoting other peoples sources, resources, studies, statistics or links when it comes to talking about people, because every human being, every person, is an individual, and shouldn't be reduced to just a number or a +1 statistic.

Czarcasm · 01-03-2013 09:46AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Answer the question. Would you support gender realignment and hormone therapy on a child if they requested it?

Despite your posturing about strawmans it is a pertinent question relating to the topic of this thread. Given that TG individuals can only be legally recognised in their new 'chosen' gender after rigorous assessment, hormone therapy and in some cases surgery. A 4yo boy will have had none of these - therefore cannot be accepted legally as a girl by the school.

Mad doesn't answer questions, he only questions others opinions, maybe the odd time outdoing himself by throwing in an odd tidbit of an opinion when the argument suits his opinion.

Mad has still to answer the question I posed earlier which was; where do you personally draw the line between what the child wants, and what you want for the child?

It's a valid supposition to question the idea that if you are able to make the argument that the child at four years of age is able to identify as female, and understand all aspects of the transgender condition, then at four years of age put forward the opinion that they wanted to undergo surgery to transition, you've claimed all along that you listen to the child and support them, so why would them requesting for life saving surgery be any different?

Would you then stop listening to them because it doesn't suit you any more?

xLexie · 01-03-2013 09:55AM

Why is the feelings of the transgendered child being the only feelings considered? What about the other kids at that school? The child is a boy, no matter what way he's dressed. If it's distressing for the child to use a male bathroom, understandably, he was told he could use the bathroom at the nurses office. Big deal.

smash · 01-03-2013 09:58AM

xLexie wrote: »

Why is the feelings of the transgendered child being the only feelings considered? What about the other kids at that school?

I agree 100% here. Bathrooms aren't about gender, they're segregated based on sex! Why should other girls have to deal with someone using their bathrooms or facilities if they have a penis?

--Kaiser-- · 01-03-2013 10:01AM

smash wrote: »

I agree 100% here. Bathrooms aren't about gender, they're segregated based on sex! Why should other girls have to deal with someone using their bathrooms or facilities if they have a penis?

Cos of stupid yank hippies and supporters of stupid yank hippies

TheChizler · 01-03-2013 11:32AM

smash wrote: »

I agree 100% here. Bathrooms aren't about gender, they're segregated based on sex! Why should other girls have to deal with someone using their bathrooms or facilities if they have a penis?

It's not like they're waving it around in their faces, female bathrooms are all cubicles (to the best of my knowledge!) so it's pretty private.

Bathrooms aren't always segregated based on sex, up to recently that very school had been segregating based on mental gender.

smash · 01-03-2013 11:38AM

TheChizler wrote: »

up to recently that very school had been segregating based on mental gender.

Sorry, what?

Links234 · 01-03-2013 11:39AM

The Aussie wrote: »

Hey mate, maybe you might be able to answer the question in the OP, I'm just curious how it should be handled??

I think the Question got lost in the condemnation there somewhere.

You're right, the question did get lost.

The circumstances were that the little girl in question had been using the girl's toilet all along, with the school officials being supportive of her. For some reason not yet revealed by the school, they decided at a later date that she was no longer going be allowed to use the toilets she had always been using. What they should have done was let her continue as she was and not have made an issue of it, not to mention what they did was illegal. I don't think they should have acted like they did at all, because all it serves to do is single her out from all the other students, and that's wrong. She should be treated the same as she had always been.

Links234 · 01-03-2013 11:40AM

smash wrote: »

Sorry, what?

It's a very clumsy way of saying she had been allowed to use the girl's toilets all along and the school had up until this point been supportive of her doing so.

TheChizler · 01-03-2013 11:48AM

Links234 wrote: »

It's a very clumsy way of saying

Just responding to the post in the style of the poster!

mayobumblebee · 01-03-2013 11:49AM

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

Maybe he insisted on sitting down to pee.

:eek:
my fella always sits to pee i noticed because i never have to put the seat down:D
i asked him about it and he says he has always sat from a very young age if he has a choice
oh dear should i tell him now ?

Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

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