Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

TheChizler · 28-02-2013 08:26PM

awec wrote: »

The idea that to really understand something you have to experience it is ridiculous.

It's a convenient argument to hide behind.

Maybe when it's used as an attempt to win an argument or shut others up, which isn't happening here, but I can't see what's ridiculous about it. I have no idea what it's like to be the child, or can't understand how they might not feel like their body suits their gender. However I know that it does happen and that we can't know for sure how they or their parents must be feeling.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 09:07PM

awec wrote: »

I'm still waiting to hear what these supposed traits are that meant these parents were able to deduce at 18 months old their child was presenting as female.

awec wrote: »

The parents said that at 18 months their child presented as female (though again, how anyone can deduce this for a child that age is incredibly questionable).

No they did not.

Again, this 18 months this is a complete red-herring, a straw man big enough to burn Edward Woodward in.

Watch the video and listen to what the parents actually say: http://kdvr.com/2013/02/26/6-year-old-transgendered-girl-fights-intolerance-parents-file-civil-rights-complaint/

Or even just read the article.

“When she finally was able to tell us “I’m a girl” things didn’t change, we were just clued in to who she was,” said her father, Jeremy.

They had deduced nothing from her at 18 months old. She herself said in her own words that she was a girl when she was old enough to talk. The reference was to her liking anything pink and sparkly, something they noticed at 18 months, that's all! In the original context, it's the parents retroactively describing what they might have noticed, and that it all made sense when she spoke up about who she was.

The parents said nothing about the child "presenting" as female, that was solely an inference of one of the news articles posted in this thread and something that's been faslely picked up on as true. Alright?

--Kaiser-- · 28-02-2013 09:09PM

A 6 year old knows **** all about anything and certainly can't deduce that they were born in the wrong body

Wabbit Ears · 28-02-2013 09:16PM

I'm all for folk being what they want to be but those decisions need to be made by the child and not the parent. I dont think its to strong a sentiment to say that this child would be better off being taken from these sick fcuks and at least be given a chance at a choice at leading their own life.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:17PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I have never seen anything like that or even closely resembling that happen in a public toilet. Definitely sounds like scaremongering.

awec wrote: »

Are you for real?

Are you that naive to think sexual acts do not take place in male public toilets?
Wow.
Errm.
Cottaging
George Michael
Gloryholes

None of this familiar?? <baffled>

--Kaiser-- · 28-02-2013 09:20PM

MadsL wrote: »

Are you that naive to think sexual acts do not take place in male public toilets?
Wow.
Errm.
Cottaging
George Michael
Gloryholes

None of this familiar?? <baffled>

Ever seen any of these? I certainly haven't

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 09:22PM

MadsL wrote: »

Are you that naive to think sexual acts do not take place in male public toilets?
Wow.
Errm.
Cottaging
George Michael
Gloryholes

None of this familiar?? <baffled>

Visited my fair share of public toilets in my life and have never had an erect penis jammed through a stall wall at me...

Baffled indeed...

Links234 · 28-02-2013 09:23PM

MadsL wrote: »

Are you that naive to think sexual acts do not take place in male public toilets?
Wow.
Errm.
Cottaging
George Michael
Gloryholes

None of this familiar?? <baffled>

Perhaps parents might be more responisble than to send their children to pee in a seedy nightclub?

Iwasfrozen · 28-02-2013 09:24PM

MadsL wrote: »

Are you that naive to think sexual acts do not take place in male public toilets?
Wow.
Errm.
Cottaging
George Michael
Gloryholes

None of this familiar?? <baffled>

Never in my 21 years have I seen any of the above...

--Kaiser-- · 28-02-2013 09:25PM

Links234 wrote: »

Perhaps parents might be more responisble than to send their children to pee in a seedy nightclub?

Christ almighty what ****e are ye talking?

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:25PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Ever seen any of these? I certainly haven't

Yes. George excepted.

Do you want specifics? I'm trying to be delicate here.

I would not have let a seven year old go alone into the old toilets in Dún Laoghaire pier a few years back. Nor into Arnotts male bathroom.

Grinder has changed the world quite a bit in the last while, but it still goes on.

mackg · 28-02-2013 09:26PM

I definitely wouldn't want any child of mine attending a school where the bathrooms didn't feature glory holes and George Michael. I could live with discrimination as long as it had those.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:27PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Never in my 21 years have I seen any of the above...

Don't click on this link then.
http://www.gloryhole2.com/en/dublin/ireland

krudler · 28-02-2013 09:28PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

Visited by fair share of public toilets in my life and have never had an erect penis jammed through to stall wall at me...

Me either

Iwasfrozen · 28-02-2013 09:29PM

MadsL wrote: »

Don't click on this link then.
http://www.gloryhole2.com/en/dublin/ireland

Right well if I ever have I kid I'll go into the bathroom with him.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 09:31PM

G.K. wrote: »

"Ye 6 and still a boy , what more proof do you want? Being camp doesnt make you transgender."

To me that is gobbeldegook. I don't get what the first half of the quote is trying to say.

And tell me where I have argued that being camp does make you transgender. Because I happen to agree with you that being camp doesnt make you transgender.

Could that have been the traits that made his parents dress him as a girl?
Did he play with a doll and they decided that they want a girl?
It was right to ban him from the girls toilets in the same way that the girls are not allowed in the boys toilets.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 09:34PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Did you actually read my full post at all?

Yes I did. I didn't repsond to all of it, but that's a different to not reading it.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well you would say that, because it suits your world view, whether that's just you being obtuse or not on purpose is a question only you can answer, because I know only too well you're more than intelligent enough to understand where I'm coming from. We'll respectfully have to differ on the benefits of the mother's chosen methods of doing what is in the best interests of her child, but suffice to point out that she has four more that she has invalidated with her crusade for one, and even saying that much required me to leave my cynicism aside that she wasn't just doing this in a self interested way to be validated by the world. There are plenty of people who don't run to chat shows and other such nonsense when they are dealing with a child with a disorder, whether it be GID, autism, downs syndrome, etc.

I would consider that there's a reasonable argument to be made that going to the news and creating a large fuss about it may not be the best tactic, but even then it wouldn't be considering the motivations for doing so. Perhaps deciding to approach a news outlet allowed the parents to tell the story their way, as opposed to what a more unscrupulous and predatory news outlet might have done and how the story might then have been spun? Many people have taken to going public with something so that they can have some control over it in that sense. Think what the Daily Mail or the Sun might do in the UK for example.

So it's pure conjecture and inference to read into her mother's motivations for taking it public. It could just be that the story was going to break anyway, and the parents felt it would be best if they had their say.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Referring to the child as "it" Links?

I didn't. I said speaking up for it, where it is referencing the particular issue, not the child.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Except that the school didn't break the law. The child was offered appropriate facilities in the nurses station. The child refused to use them. That doesn't automatically mean the school broke the law, it just means the child refused the appropriate facilities provided.

They did. They offered alternatives, but she was entitled to use the girl's room.

Wabbit Ears · 28-02-2013 09:34PM

MadsL wrote: »

Are you that naive to think sexual acts do not take place in male public toilets?
Wow.
Errm.
Cottaging
George Michael
Gloryholes

None of this familiar?? <baffled>

Man, I laughed my ass off at this...

Listen, Ill explain this simply..

You're referring to internet porn.

The real work bears no resemblence to this completely made up fantasy world.

Know the Difference.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:34PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Right well if I ever have I kid I'll go into the bathroom with him.

The point I'm making.
Not letting him read some of the graffiti alone might be good too.

Boombastic · 28-02-2013 09:34PM

MadsL wrote: »

Don't click on this link then.
<<Link removed>>>

Seriously? This is a school that's the topic here :rolleyes:

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:37PM

Boombastic wrote: »

Seriously? Is a school that's the topic here :rolleyes:

A poster claimed that kids should go to their own bathroms alone whatever their age (clearly not a parent). I pointed out that many kids go with whichever parent is with them and that sending a kid to a male public bathroom alone was not safe or suitable.

I had to spell out why and learnt that some AH posters lead sheltered lives.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 09:37PM

This thread is giving me a headache just trying to keep up, never mind people aren't bothered with the actual facts of the story

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Could that have been the traits that made his parents dress him as a girl?
Did he play with a doll and they decided that they want a girl?

She was the one who spoke out and said she was a girl, the parents did nothing, decided nothing, and you're talking nonsense!

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:39PM

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Man, I laughed my ass off at this...

Listen, Ill explain this simply..

You're referring to internet porn.

The real work bears no resemblence to this completely made up fantasy world.

Know the Difference.

Then I am clearly a lot older than you. And have seen many more things. Some of them as a child.

Here's another bubble to burst, some men don't go to saunas just to have a nice spa experience.

--Kaiser-- · 28-02-2013 09:42PM

MadsL wrote: »

A poster claimed that kids should go to their own bathroms alone whatever their age (clearly not a parent). I pointed out that many kids go with whichever parent is with them and that sending a kid to a male public bathroom alone was not safe or suitable.

Well I agree with this, but because of possible paedophiles not potential illicit homosexual acts

0066ad · 28-02-2013 09:42PM

MadsL wrote: »

Then I am clearly a lot older than you. And have seen many more things. Some of them as a child.

Are you sure it wasn't just a dvd you were watching

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:46PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Well I agree with this, but because of possible paedophiles not potential illicit homosexual acts

Either is a reason a public toilet is an unsuitable place for an unaccompanied child.

0066ad wrote: »

Are you sure it wasn't just a dvd you were watching

I see. Because you haven't experienced anything like it, it doesn't exist. Go talk to a gay man in his 40s-50s, particularly if they have lived in the UK. i really should not have to spell this out.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 09:46PM

Links234 wrote: »

This thread is giving me a headache just trying to keep up, never mind people aren't bothered with the actual facts of the story

She was the one who spoke out and said she was a girl, the parents did nothing, decided nothing, and you're talking nonsense!

Its what kids do. If he had told them that he was a tortoise would they have sent him to school with a shell on his back?
Parents did nothing? they should have kept him dressed as a boy and tell him that he is a boy until he is old enough to make the decision for himself.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 09:48PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its what kids do. If he had told them that he was a tortoise would they have sent him to school with a shell on his back?
Parents did nothing? they should have kept him dressed as a boy and tell him that he is a boy until he is old enough to make the decision for himself.

What you are saying is nonsense, unless you believe that transgender people don't exist.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 09:48PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its what kids do. If he had told them that he was a tortoise would they have sent him to school with a shell on his back?
Parents did nothing? they should have kept him dressed as a boy and tell him that he is a boy until he is old enough to make the decision for himself.

Do tortoises have separate bathrooms?

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 09:48PM

MadsL wrote: »

Here's another bubble to burst, some men don't go to saunas just to have a nice spa experience.

Christ you really have witnessed it all,
Again, been to saunas and steam room on many occasions and personally don't even see the window of opportunity where it could take place...
Every spa/gym differs though...

Are making out that men are uncontrollable horny hormonal homosapiens that will crack one off whenever they get the chance, audience be damned!

Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

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