2013 NFL DRAFT

Red Crow · 28-02-2013 06:32PM

This is a fact that Smith has never had a better season than Cassel. I've never said he isn't an upgrade but they are basically the same team for me. He's not a big upgrade. He won't perform as well in Kansas as he did in San Fran either. People need to start reading what I said before jumping the gun.

Dohnny Jepp · 28-02-2013 06:49PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

This is a fact that Smith has never had a better season than Cassel. I've never said he isn't an upgrade but they are basically the same team for me. He's not a big upgrade. He won't perform as well in Kansas as he did in San Fran either. People need to start reading what I said before jumping the gun.

The last two years smith has had a better passer rating than Cassel.

matthew8 · 28-02-2013 06:53PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

This is a fact that Smith has never had a better season than Cassel.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Are you, for real, telling me that Matt Cassel had as good a year as Alex Smith this year or last? The stats beg to differ, massively.

Mikeyt086 · 28-02-2013 07:01PM

As a Jags fan, I would like to see us take a chance with Geno Smith.

Primarily because I don't want to have another season with Blaine Gabbert at the helm. YES, we desperately need a pass rusher on D, depth at CB and some O-Linemen who can block, but I think Geno's turn of pace can be a real weapon in the NFL. He's a pocket passer who ran a 4.59/40 at the combine.

I am fairly sure we will take Ezekiel Ansah at #2, which would be a safe choice, but I would rather see us risk it. If we don't, Geno won't get past Oakland I don't think. I don't think Luke Joekel is an option considering he plays the same position as Eugene Monroe, out best (only competent) lineman, so I would like our 2nd and maybe even 3rd picks on beefing up that line.

TO. · 28-02-2013 07:54PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

This is a fact that Smith has never had a better season than Cassel. I've never said he isn't an upgrade but they are basically the same team for me. He's not a big upgrade. He won't perform as well in Kansas as he did in San Fran either. People need to start reading what I said before jumping the gun.

Oh come Smith may have been average for many of the years of his career but he has always been better than Cassel. Cassel has had 1 solid season and 1 alright season and that is it. His numbers across the board are worse than an average Smith. comparing the last few seasons between the two:

Cassel
................ PC PA. CMP.. yds . TD. Int. Fum . Rate
2008 NE 16 327 516 63.4 3,693 21 11 5 89.4
2009 KC 15 271 493 55.0 2,924 16 16 5 69.9
2010 KC 15 262 450 58.2 3,116 27 7 2 93.0
2011 KC 9 160 269 59.5 1,713 10 9 4 76.6
2012 KC 9 161 277 58.1 1,796 6 12 6 66.7

Smith

2007 SF 7 94 193 48.7 914 2 4 6 57.2
2009 SF 11 225 372 60.5 2,350 18 12 3 81.5
2010 SF 11 204 342 59.6 2,370 14 10 4 82.1
2011 SF 16 273 445 61.3 3,144 17 5 5 90.7
2012 SF 10 153 218 70.2 1,737 13 5 3 104.1

Red Crow · 28-02-2013 08:28PM

matthew8 wrote: »

That's absolutely ridiculous. Are you, for real, telling me that Matt Cassel had as good a year as Alex Smith this year or last? The stats beg to differ, massively.

Are you ridiculously blind or something? This is the second time you can't read what I've said. Smith has never had a better season than Cassel.

As a starter Cassel has been better than Smith over the past 5 years. Go check the stats.

matthew8 · 28-02-2013 08:38PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Are you ridiculously blind or something? This is the second time you can't read what I've said. Smith has never had a better season than Cassel.

As a starter Cassel has been better than Smith over the past 5 years. Go check the stats.

Honestly what are you on about? Smith has clearly been better than Cassel the last 2 years. TO just posted the stats there, I suggest you go have a read of them:

...... PC PA. CMP.. yds . TD. Int. Fum . Rate
Cassel
2011 KC 9 160 269 59.5 1,713 10 9 4 76.6
2012 KC 9 161 277 58.1 1,796 6 12 6 66.7

Smith
2011 SF 16 273 445 61.3 3,144 17 5 5 90.7
2012 SF 10 153 218 70.2 1,737 13 5 3 104.1

Explain to me exactly how Cassel's seasons are better than Smith's.

Just in case you've been having trouble comprehending what you wrote:

Smith has never had a better season than Cassel.

Means that in each and every season both of them have played, Cassel has been either as good as or better than Smith.

Red Crow · 28-02-2013 08:43PM

Why are you singling out two seasons???

Unbelievable.

Dohnny Jepp · 28-02-2013 08:54PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Why are you singling out two seasons???

Unbelievable.

Have you everyone on ignore or something? Read the last 5 or 6 posts. Smith has been better than cassel more often that not over the last 5 years.

matthew8 · 28-02-2013 08:56PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Why are you singling out two seasons???

Unbelievable.

Well, they're the 2 most recent seasons, so they're the most relevant, and according to you, in each and every season Cassel has been better than Smith. But, for you, here are their stats combined over the last 5.

........ PC PA. CMP.. yds . TD. Int.
Smith: 949 1570 60.4 10515 66 38
Cassel: 1181 2005 58.9 13242 80 55

Despite Smith struggling mightily for 3 years, his stats are still better than Cassel, who just has higher totals because he played more games.

TO. · 28-02-2013 09:11PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Why are you singling out two seasons???

Unbelievable.

Here is the last 5 seasons again for you. Did you miss it the first time round or do you have me on ignore? It clearly shows Smith was better than Cassel.

Cassel
................ PC PA. CMP.. yds . TD. Int. Fum . Rate
2008 NE 16 327 516 63.4 3,693 21 11 5 89.4
2009 KC 15 271 493 55.0 2,924 16 16 5 69.9
2010 KC 15 262 450 58.2 3,116 27 7 2 93.0
2011 KC 9 160 269 59.5 1,713 10 9 4 76.6
2012 KC 9 161 277 58.1 1,796 6 12 6 66.7

Smith

2007 SF 7 94 193 48.7 914 2 4 6 57.2
2009 SF 11 225 372 60.5 2,350 18 12 3 81.5
2010 SF 11 204 342 59.6 2,370 14 10 4 82.1
2011 SF 16 273 445 61.3 3,144 17 5 5 90.7
2012 SF 10 153 218 70.2 1,737 13 5 3 104.1

robluvshandegg · 28-02-2013 11:22PM

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2005 23 NWE 16 2 0 13 24 54.2 183 2 8.3 1 4.2 36 7.6 7.4 14.1 91.5 89.4 1 1 7.28 7.08 4.0 1
2006 24 NWE 16 6 0 5 8 62.5 32 0 0.0 0 0.0 10 4.0 4.0 6.4 5.3 70.8 3 15 1.55 1.55 27.3 0
2007 25 NWE 16 6 0 4 7 57.1 38 0 0.0 1 14.3 21 5.4 -1.0 9.5 6.3 32.7 0 0 5.43 -1.00 0.0 0
2008 26 NWE QB 16 16 15 10-5-0 327 516 63.4 3693 21 4.1 11 2.1 76 7.2 7.0 11.3 230.8 89.4 47 219 6.17 6.04 8.3 2 2 17
2009 27 KAN QB 7 15 15 4-11-0 271 493 55.0 2924 16 3.2 16 3.2 61 5.9 5.1 10.8 194.9 69.9 42 243 5.01 4.26 7.9 1 2 7
2010* 28 KAN QB 7 15 15 10-5-0 262 450 58.2 3116 27 6.0 7 1.6 75 6.9 7.4 11.9 207.7 93.0 26 182 6.16 6.64 5.5 1 2 12
2011 29 KAN QB 7 9 9 4-5-0 160 269 59.5 1713 10 3.7 9 3.3 52 6.4 5.6 10.7 190.3 76.6 22 120 5.47 4.77 7.6 1 2 2
2012 30 KAN QB 7 9 8 1-7-0 161 277 58.1 1796 6 2.2 12 4.3 46 6.5 5.0 11.2 199.6 66.7 19 101 5.73 4.31 6.4 1 1 2
Career 78 62 29-33-0 1203 2044 58.9 13495 82 4.0 57 2.8 76 6.6 6.1 11.2 173.0 80.4 160 881 5.72 5.30 7.3 6 9 41

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2005 21 SFO QB 11 9 7 2-5-0 84 165 50.9 875 1 0.6 11 6.7 47 5.3 2.4 10.4 97.2 40.8 29 185 3.56 1.11 14.9 1 2 -2
2006 22 SFO QB 11 16 16 7-9-0 257 442 58.1 2890 16 3.6 16 3.6 75 6.5 5.6 11.2 180.6 74.8 35 202 5.64 4.80 7.3 1 2 10
2007 23 SFO QB 11 7 7 2-5-0 94 193 48.7 914 2 1.0 4 2.1 45 4.7 4.0 9.7 130.6 57.2 17 121 3.78 3.11 8.1 2 2 0
2009 25 SFO QB 11 11 10 5-5-0 225 372 60.5 2350 18 4.8 12 3.2 73 6.3 5.8 10.4 213.6 81.5 22 134 5.62 5.17 5.6 7
2010 26 SFO QB 11 11 10 3-7-0 204 342 59.6 2370 14 4.1 10 2.9 62 6.9 6.4 11.6 215.5 82.1 25 140 6.08 5.61 6.8 6
2011 27 SFO QB 11 16 16 13-3-0 273 445 61.3 3144 17 3.8 5 1.1 56 7.1 7.3 11.5 196.5 90.7 44 263 5.89 6.13 9.0 6 6 13
2012 28 SFO QB 11 10 9 6-2-1 153 218 70.2 1737 13 6.0 5 2.3 55 8.0 8.1 11.4 173.7 104.1 24 137 6.61 6.76 9.9 7
Career 80 75 38-36-1 1290 2177 59.3 14280 81 3.7 63 2.9 75 6.6 6.0 11.1 178.5 79.1 196 1182 5.52 5.01 8.3 10 12 41

That last column for each is the Approximate Value, Doug Drinen's method of putting a single numerical value on any player's season, at any position, from any year (for now, it's just any year since 1950). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?page_id=8061

Gotta say I think Smith is a better quarterback who has more upside than Cassel, but statistically there is very little difference between the two. I think Smith is an upgrade and combined with Reid should get some results, but I still see him as a very competent game manager who won't turn the ball over and will make enough plays to be relatively successful.

theRB · 28-02-2013 11:32PM

Really surprised some people don't see that Smith is a huge improvement on Cassel. I see them as technically similar players but Alex Smith is so much more consistent than Cassel. Kansas have a strong team outside of the QB and Smith is everything they need. He isn't a top 10 QB by any stretch of the imagination but he's a guy Andy Reid can rely on to throw completions and not turn the ball over down after down, I just don't see Matt Cassel as that guy.

HigginsJ · 28-02-2013 11:33PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I am fairly sure we will take Ezekiel Ansah at #2, which would be a safe choice, but I would rather see us risk it. If we don't, Geno won't get past Oakland I don't think. I don't think Luke Joekel is an option considering he plays the same position as Eugene Monroe, out best (only competent) lineman, so I would like our 2nd and maybe even 3rd picks on beefing up that line.

Ansah at #2 is a pretty big risk to be fair. He is an athletic freak but its hard to know if he will make it in the pro's.

Agree that Smith won't get past Oakland.

Red Crow · 01-03-2013 12:08AM

Why are people quoting statistics that just further prove my point that there is very little between them. Anyway it's time to move on this seems to be a very emotive and sensitive subject for some.

Paully D · 01-03-2013 12:22AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Ansah at #2 is a pretty big risk to be fair. He is an athletic freak but its hard to know if he will make it in the pro's.

Agree on Ansah. To go from not being able to put on a pair of pads in 2010 to a #2 pick in the draft in 2013 is a huge ask. In fact he's only really actually had one proper season as in 2010 and 2011 he made a combined total of 10 tackles playing sporadically.

He's a freak of an athlete of course and it's all well and good doing it in college but to go from that to complex NFL systems and against players who are far better able to match up with and exploit you, it's not going to be easy for him.

Like you say it's very hard to know if he will make it. He really is a ''boom or bust'' type player.

eagle eye · 01-03-2013 12:42AM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Why are people quoting statistics that just further prove my point that there is very little between them. Anyway it's time to move on this seems to be a very emotive and sensitive subject for some.

The last two seasons they have been poles apart. Smith went to a different level to what Cassel has ever played at in the playoffs last season and continued it into this season.

You said he has never been better than Cassel which is plain wrong.

TO. · 01-03-2013 01:36AM

Eli Manning wrote: »

Why are people quoting statistics that just further prove my point that there is very little between them. Anyway it's time to move on this seems to be a very emotive and sensitive subject for some.

It is easier sometimes to look at stats but it is clear as day Smith has progressed as a QB slowly since coming in as a rookie and Cassel has had 2 good seasons at most. One of which was with the Pats with Welker and Moss as his Receivers. To be that blind and say Cassel is better is nonsense.

Chucky the tree · 01-03-2013 09:49AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Ansah at #2 is a pretty big risk to be fair. He is an athletic freak but its hard to know if he will make it in the pro's.

Agree that Smith won't get past Oakland.

Most player in this draft are. Finding a non-LT at #2 who isn't a either risk/reach is very difficult this year. Milliner is probably considering one of the safest picks outside of Joeckal and Fisher.

HigginsJ · 01-03-2013 10:13AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Most player in this draft are. Finding a non-LT at #2 who isn't a either risk/reach is very difficult this year. Milliner is probably considering one of the safest picks outside of Joeckal and Fisher.

I agree with that but Ansah has very little on his CV you can look back on. The likes of Jones & Lotulelei (healh permitting) or Dion Jordan, Bjorn Werner would have more to back them up.

If you want to take a high potential guy that high I'd probably take Jordan at this point.

Chucky the tree · 01-03-2013 11:59AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

I agree with that but Ansah has very little on his CV you can look back on. The likes of Jones & Lotulelei (healh permitting) or Dion Jordan, Bjorn Werner would have more to back them up.

If you want to take a high potential guy that high I'd probably take Jordan at this point.

Jordans combine number were pretty poor though, just don't see where the potential with him is as a pass rusher. He's seems to be fluid and good in coverage but you don't use a #2 pick on a cover linebacker. I agree on Star, if he checks out fine then he's better and same with Jarvis Jones.

taidghbaby · 01-03-2013 12:39PM

Jamie Dukes just said the honey badger could be drafted at the end of the first round! He said his character issues wouldn't put teams off! I agree with him there, his character issues won't! His size and (in)ability to cover receivers on the other hand may just!

Alfred Borden · 01-03-2013 12:41PM

taidghbaby wrote: »

Jamie Dukes just said the honey badger could be drafted at the end of the first round! He said his character issues wouldn't put teams off! I agree with him there, his character issues won't! His size and (in)ability to cover receivers on the other hand may just!

Still would be a reach for teams in my opinion.

taidghbaby · 01-03-2013 12:44PM

Raf32 wrote: »

Still would be a reach for teams in my opinion.

I can only see him as a nickel corner or a safety in the NFL! Teams aren't drafting nickel corners in the first round! Plus he hasn't played for a year! A team with a lot of draft picks and a good team in place already may take a chance on him in the 3rd or 4th!

Alfred Borden · 01-03-2013 12:47PM

taidghbaby wrote: »

I can only see him as a nickel corner or a safety in the NFL! Teams aren't drafting nickel corners in the first round! Plus he hasn't played for a year! A team with a lot of draft picks and a good team in place already may take a chance on him in the 3rd or 4th!

Yup agreed, alot of teams do need secondary help.

JaMarcus Hustle · 01-03-2013 12:55PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jordans combine number were pretty poor though, just don't see where the potential with him is as a pass rusher. He's seems to be fluid and good in coverage but you don't use a #2 pick on a cover linebacker.

How do you not see any potential as a pass-rusher, especially in a 3-4?

I would say he has more potential than any similar prospects, Jones and Moore included. Obviously not including Werner, as he wouldn't line up there anyway.

taidghbaby wrote: »

Jamie Dukes just said the honey badger could be drafted at the end of the first round! He said his character issues wouldn't put teams off! I agree with him there, his character issues won't! His size and (in)ability to cover receivers on the other hand may just!

Jamie Dukes is the most clueless man in football. I'm sceptical he even knows what the Honey Badger's real name is, such is my complete and utter distrust of Dukes.

Having said that, you probably won't find a bigger fan of Mathieu than I am. Best season I've ever seen by a defensive player in college football - better than Suh, though I didn't see Charles Woodson's - so I'm obviously biased. But if I was a team without a huge, gaping need, I'd have no qualms about taking Mathieu in the first.

Chucky the tree · 01-03-2013 01:28PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

How do you not see any potential as a pass-rusher, especially in a 3-4?

I would say he has more potential than any similar prospects, Jones and Moore included. Obviously not including Werner, as he wouldn't line up there anyway.

He doesn't seem like an explosive athlete. The few games I've seen he doesn't seem anything hugely special in that area and his combine numbers didn't suggest it either. None of the pass-rush prospects striker me as being great. I'm sure some will hit but there isn't one guy who jumps off the chart as being a hugely talented all round prospect.

frostie500 · 01-03-2013 01:33PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jordans combine number were pretty poor though, just don't see where the potential with him is as a pass rusher. He's seems to be fluid and good in coverage but you don't use a #2 pick on a cover linebacker. I agree on Star, if he checks out fine then he's better and same with Jarvis Jones.

A 4.6 40 time, 5th best shuttle time, 38 reps in the bench press he was, for my money, hugely impressive in the combine. Obviously you can only read so much into the combine stats but his game tape is very good too. Each time I watched the Ducks playing last year it was Jordan who jumped off their defensive tape to me. Very impressive blend of speed and size and he'll be a very tough player to defend against at the pro level

Chucky the tree · 01-03-2013 02:00PM

frostie500 wrote: »

A 4.6 40 time, 5th best shuttle time, 38 reps in the bench press he was, for my money, hugely impressive in the combine. Obviously you can only read so much into the combine stats but his game tape is very good too. Each time I watched the Ducks playing last year it was Jordan who jumped off their defensive tape to me. Very impressive blend of speed and size and he'll be a very tough player to defend against at the pro level

Jordan didn't do the bench press. Not sure why 5th and 6th best shuttle/cone times are impressive either?

If I want to take a guy top 5 to be a pass-rusher I don't want him stacking up that poorly in those drills, especially in a weak class and giving up lbs to some of his competition. His 40 time is excellent though, but for a pass-rusher it's not to important. Whatever about his game tape the hype he has gotten from the combine is a mystery to me. His combine should have really dropped him a good few spots. I've not been hugely impressed with the game tape I've seen on him either, he seems to only be able to rush the edge and at that he is not great.

TO. · 01-03-2013 02:25PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jordan didn't do the bench press. Not sure why 5th and 6th best shuttle/cone times are impressive either? If I want to take a guy top 5 to be a pass-rusher

You are being extremely picky just to stock up your own opinion he isn't that good. He was 5th in all Dline guys and only by 0.04 of second on the 2nd best guy. Out of all Dline and Linebackers he was 15th again 0.04 seconds on being top 7. 4.35 in the 20 yard shuttle is very good especially when you add his other results. You would expect any Top Pass Rusher or Dline or Linebacker to be within 3.40 and quicker on the shuttles as it proves Lateral agility, quickness and how flexible they are. It also shows quick footwork all of which is key for guys moving quick to make tackles or rush the QB.

2013 NFL DRAFT

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