Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

griffdaddy · 28-02-2013 05:41PM

Can I walk into women's bathrooms if I call myself a girl?

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:04PM

Furious_George wrote: »

Im not attacking a liberal position, im attacking your position. You are ever the master of putting your words in other peoples mouths. I'm not talking about any liberal agenda. I am specifically talking about your aims in this thread. As far as I can see that is to paint yourself as an open minded, liberal fighting for the rights of the transgendered against closed minded bigots and god botherers. I dont need to re-read the thread. The majority are arguing against the decision of the parents at such a young age to raise the child as a girl. Its the age that is the issue not the action. Pointing to page 1 of a 22 page thread doesnt do your argument much good.

I see - so you attack me personally, and your constructed aims of why I posted in this thread rather than try and understand how this thread took the tone it did. Forced sterilisation, removal of the child from the home, prison for the parents, child abuse accusations and disgust all banded about from Page 1.

I personally believe that such a decision should not be made until the child gets closer to puberty and is old enough to coherently express their feelings and display a rational understanding of their personal situation and their decision. I do not believe any child at 18 months, at 4 or at 6 is capable of that.

At 7, 10, 14? What age are you arbitrarily allowing the child to speak about it?

Jester252 wrote: »

Does nobody find it creepy that the story is about the sexual identity of a 4 year old child. Does the child even know what is going on? Would have not been better parents to wait until the child is at an age where he has some understanding of gender issues and allow the child to make his own decision and be supportive of what decision he makes. Has anyone heard of a single good story about a child being raised the opposite sex then what they were born because all the cases that I read the child in question has had major issues in young adulthood.

Gender identity ≠ sexual identity.

Seachmall wrote: »

I played with dolls as a child. I was never transgender.

I believe it is not compulsory.

Ush1 · 28-02-2013 06:05PM

griffdaddy wrote: »

Can I walk into women's bathrooms if I call myself a girl?

It's great isn't it? Gotta love the liberal world we live in, I'm off to the gym and might feel like a woman for an hour and hang out in the changing rooms!

kunst nugget · 28-02-2013 06:07PM

griffdaddy wrote: »

Can I walk into women's bathrooms if I call myself a girl?

You can walk into a women's bathroom even if you don't call yourself a girl. Mightn't go down well but it can still be done.

orestes · 28-02-2013 06:12PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the American ways of doing things,
I feel they can be overly strict and outlandish,
But I admire how they hold on to their principles.

These would be the same principles that are based on institutional racism, sexism, homophobia, class oppression and just general discrimination towards anybody who doesn't fit into the American dream, yeah?

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 06:16PM

orestes wrote: »

These would be the same principles that are based on institutional racism, sexism, homophobia, class oppression and just general discrimination towards anybody who doesn't fit into the American dream, yeah?

How they hold on to said principles.
You actually quoted me saying that I wasn't a fan of their system,
But in this case, I'm glad they stood up to the parents.
People are using discrimination to gain an upper hand,
Which is wrong.

orestes · 28-02-2013 06:21PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

How they hold on to said principles.
You actually quoted me saying that I wasn't a fan of their system,
But in this case, I'm glad they stood up to the parents.
People are using discrimination to gain an upper hand,
Which is wrong.

I'd say discrimination is wrong and people being discriminated against are trying to gain an equal footing because the principles of those discriminating against them are at best ill-informed and at worst hatred and bigotry.

kunst nugget · 28-02-2013 06:23PM

Ush1 wrote: »

It's great isn't it? Gotta love the liberal world we live in, I'm off to the gym and might feel like a woman for an hour and hang out in the changing rooms!

Yeah, gotta love what the liberals are doing to the place. All you have to do is pretend you have a bit of the auld gender dysphoria, a bit of the auld hormone injections, change your sex on your passport and maybe a bit of the auld gender re-assignment surgery. And then, hey presto, boobieville in the auld changing room! Aaaaalright! Hubba hubba!

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:24PM

Ush1 wrote: »

It's great isn't it? Gotta love the liberal world we live in, I'm off to the gym and might feel like a woman for an hour and hang out in the changing rooms!

There was a time when you might not be admitted to those changing rooms based on your religion, your class, your sex, or your skin colour.

I wouldn't be so quick to ridicule if I were you.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:27PM

orestes wrote: »

I'd say discrimination is wrong and people being discriminated against are trying to gain an equal footing because the principles of those discriminating against them are at best ill-informed and at worst hatred and bigotry.

orestes wrote: »

These would be the same principles that are based on institutional racism, sexism, homophobia, class oppression and just general discrimination towards anybody who doesn't fit into the American dream, yeah?

Wow, discrimination is wrong, but hey look at those Americans huh?

You should read your own posts.

Ush1 · 28-02-2013 06:27PM

MadsL wrote: »

There was a time when you might not be admitted to those changing rooms based on your religion, your class, your sex, or your skin colour.

I wouldn't be so quick to ridicule if I were you.

Good point, I just hope the women in there are so understanding.

"What? Don't worry about this penis, I'm actually one of you!"

Links234 · 28-02-2013 06:29PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Links I think you have to be understanding of the fact that to most people, the mother comes off as a bit unhinged because of her enthusiastic propensity to use the child as a means to garner attention and validation for herself.

Honestly, this reads to me as more of an Irish "shure don't be rockin' the boat" conservative mentality and ire towards anyone who speaks up about an issue. I don't see any of what you're talking about in what the mother has said, and what I gather from it is that the girl's parents are doing what they can to ensure that their child gets by in life and speaking up for it. Anything else you claim I think is just you reading what you want into the situation.

What nobody here has seemed to have touched on is what the school has done is completely illegal, and the parents have every right to make an issue of it. What the school did by denying her access to appropriate facilities is against the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, which states that they must allow an individual access appropriate to their gender identity, rather than their assigned gender at birth. Regardless of what you think of the law, that's what the law says, and the school has broken the law. The parents have quite rightfully kicked up a stink.

Ush1 · 28-02-2013 06:30PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Yeah, gotta love what the liberals are doing to the place. All you have to do is pretend you have a bit of the auld gender dysphoria, a bit of the auld hormone injections, change your sex on your passport and maybe a bit of the auld gender re-assignment surgery. And then, hey presto, boobieville in the auld changing room! Aaaaalright! Hubba hubba!

Is that the legal requirements?

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 06:35PM

orestes wrote: »

I'd say discrimination is wrong and people being discriminated against are trying to gain an equal footing because the principles of those discriminating against them are at best ill-informed and at worst hatred and bigotry.

I agree that it's wrong,
And should've gone into more detail on previous post.
Some people, are using discrimination to gain an advantage over others.
I feel the parents are using discrimination here for their own benefit.
They're the ones essentially breaking the rules yet they're making out they're the victims.

The more one brings up discrimination and people getting discriminated against,
The worse it's going to get.

Don't often revert to celebrity quotes but Morgan Freeman is bang on here...

http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/February-15-2012-13-44-02-RacismMorganFreemansWiseWords.jpg

kunst nugget · 28-02-2013 06:40PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Is that the legal requirements?

Actually I can't find any legal requirements for Ireland so we're quids in. I think the two of us should head down to the gym tonight and say we're women! That'll show those crazy liberals! I'll wear make up if you will.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:40PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Good point, I just hope the women in there are so understanding.

"What? Don't worry about this penis, I'm actually one of you!"

I see, so in your anti-matter anti-liberal world you just constructed, a racist could object to the black guy at the gym, the bigot could ban Muslims and the sexist could demand any woman to make him a sammich?

Good luck with that.

Annasopra · 28-02-2013 06:42PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

I agree that it's wrong,
And should've gone into more detail on previous post.
Some people, are using discrimination to gain an advantage over others.
I feel the parents are using discrimination here for their own benefit.
They're the ones essentially breaking the rules yet they're making out they're the victims.

The more one brings up discrimination and people getting discriminated against,
The worse it's going to get.

Don't often revert to celebrity quotes but Morgan Freeman is bang on here...

http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/February-15-2012-13-44-02-RacismMorganFreemansWiseWords.jpg

Please explain what rules the parents are breaking?

G.K. · 28-02-2013 06:43PM

For those still going on about the mother forcing this on the child, I implore you to look at the David Reimer case. It simply wouldn't work, and in this day and age, the kid would know their own past. Also no-one in the medical profession would ever agree that the kid is trans if that was the case.

Kev_2012 wrote: »

What if the child feels like a male when he grows up? I'm sure raising him arseways won't affect him at all.

And what if the child is trans? Forcing the child into the male box will only be detrimental. Letting the child live their life as they see it works out much better. If it's a phase, they will naturally grow out of it.

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Let the child decide when hes 18.

A bit too late then. Puberty and all.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:43PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Actually I can't find any legal requirements for Ireland so we're quids in. I think the two of us should head down to the gym tonight and say we're women! That'll show those crazy liberals! I'll wear make up if you will.

Why don't you dress up in blackface and perform musical numbers as well to highlight your intolerance for racial discrimination.

That way you can be obnoxious about it to as many people as possible.

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 06:44PM

Namely making their child go into the bathroom which is not of his gender.

kunst nugget · 28-02-2013 06:45PM

MadsL wrote: »

Why don't you dress up in blackface and perform musical numbers as well to highlight your intolerance for racial discrimination.

That way you can be obnoxious about it to as many people as possible.

Ah, I think the point of the post might have been lost on you…

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:46PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

Namely making their child go into the bathroom which is not of his gender.

The school is the one changing that, not the parents. Read the articles again.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 06:47PM

Ush1 wrote: »

It's great isn't it? Gotta love the liberal world we live in, I'm off to the gym and might feel like a woman for an hour and hang out in the changing rooms!

I wish this bollocks meme would just die already! "Oh, what's stopping me from doing x, y or z"

Do you know what? I ****ing dare you to walk a mile in my shoes and see how far you get. Go ahead and come out to everyone you know that you're trans and face the risk and uncertainty of rejection and disapproval or outright ostricization, or risk losing your job because of it. Then go ahead and start seeing a psychologist for a while so you can get a referal to an endocrinologist, try bluff your way through that. See the endocrinologists who have all their own questions to grill you with and make you see another psych before they even allow you to start treatment. Get your GP on board, so they'll administer your hormone blocking shots. But be careful, it's perfectly legal in this country for a health professional to refuse to treat you based on their religious convictions, it's happened to people I know! Then sit back as your body changes drastically from the hormone treatment.* Then go and navigate all the beaurocracy to get your name changed and the gender maker on your passport changed so that you now have ID for how you're currently presenting.

Now show the people in the Gym your new ID and you're all set to hang out in changing rooms for an hour. Then tell us, was it worth it?

'cos that's what we have to go through

* This is what your body would go through when starting hormone treatment BTW and there's so many changes that happen that you don't see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCEjCHb_-Qg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjM-wJYMCg

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 06:48PM

The parents have trained their son to use the female toilets when out in public,
It's not allowed, plain and simple.
The school isn't in the wrong.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:49PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Ah, I think the point of the post might have been lost on you…

You mean where you wanted to use tolerance for those who have a medical condition as a means of either taking the piss or getting a cheap thrill.

What is next, suggesting you and your mates pretend to have a mental disability to win a special olympics medal?

Links234 · 28-02-2013 06:51PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

The parents have trained their son to use the female toilets when out in public,
It's not allowed, plain and simple.
The school isn't in the wrong.

What the school has done is illegal and against the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, they are in the wrong and what they have done is against the law.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 06:51PM

Links234 wrote: »

I wish this bollocks meme would just die already! "Oh, what's stopping me from doing x, y or z"

Do you know what? I ****ing dare you to walk a mile in my shoes and see how far you get. Go ahead and come out to everyone you know that you're trans and face the risk and uncertainty of rejection and disapproval or outright ostricization, or risk losing your job because of it. Then go ahead and start seeing a psychologist for a while so you can get a referal to an endocrinologist, try bluff your way through that. See the endocrinologists who have all their own questions to grill you with and make you see another psych before they even allow you to start treatment. Get your GP on board, so they'll administer your hormone blocking shots. But be careful, it's perfectly legal in this country for a health professional to refuse to treat you based on their religious convictions, it's happened to people I know! Then sit back as your body changes drastically from the hormone treatment.* Then go and navigate all the beaurocracy to get your name changed and the gender maker on your passport changed so that you now have ID for how you're currently presenting.

Now show the people in the Gym your new ID and you're all set to hang out in changing rooms for an hour. Then tell us, was it worth it?

'cos that's what we have to go through

This.

I'm sorry you have to deal with immature idiots.

Ush1 · 28-02-2013 06:53PM

MadsL wrote: »

I see, so in your anti-matter anti-liberal world you just constructed, a racist could object to the black guy at the gym, the bigot could ban Muslims and the sexist could demand any woman to make him a sammich?

Good luck with that.

World I constructed? Your strawmen ****e arguments are an art form at this stage.

Ush1 · 28-02-2013 06:58PM

Links234 wrote: »

I wish this bollocks meme would just die already! "Oh, what's stopping me from doing x, y or z"

Do you know what? I ****ing dare you to walk a mile in my shoes and see how far you get. Go ahead and come out to everyone you know that you're trans and face the risk and uncertainty of rejection and disapproval or outright ostricization, or risk losing your job because of it. Then go ahead and start seeing a psychologist for a while so you can get a referal to an endocrinologist, try bluff your way through that. See the endocrinologists who have all their own questions to grill you with and make you see another psych before they even allow you to start treatment. Get your GP on board, so they'll administer your hormone blocking shots. But be careful, it's perfectly legal in this country for a health professional to refuse to treat you based on their religious convictions, it's happened to people I know! Then sit back as your body changes drastically from the hormone treatment.* Then go and navigate all the beaurocracy to get your name changed and the gender maker on your passport changed so that you now have ID for how you're currently presenting.

Now show the people in the Gym your new ID and you're all set to hang out in changing rooms for an hour. Then tell us, was it worth it?

'cos that's what we have to go through

* This is what your body would go through when starting hormone treatment BTW and there's so many changes that happen that you don't see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCEjCHb_-Qg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjM-wJYMCg

But you're happy now and it was all worth it yeah? My meme is fairly applicable unless there is exact legal follow on from me declaring myself transgender and being legally transgender.

Is that list you outlined the requirements? What if I wanted to be legally a woman but was perfectly happy with how I look.

kunst nugget · 28-02-2013 06:58PM

MadsL wrote: »

You mean where you wanted to use tolerance for those who have a medical condition as a means of either taking the piss or getting a cheap thrill.

What is next, suggesting you and your mates pretend to have a mental disability to win a special olympics medal?

Right, I was actually taking the piss of the attitude of the other poster. If you read through some of the other posts I've made on this thread, it might make more sense. But if you want to stick to venting righteous indignation at me, fair enough.

Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

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