Is multiculturalism wanted??

crockholm · 28-02-2013 01:04PM

I was going to offer an opinion to the question of "white flight" as I have a best friend in a large US city,whose family have been moving outwards towards the suburbs,and maybe explain his frustrations,but after seeing somebody doing their rounds, I would like to just say that I am now changing my point of veiw to" yay to multiculturism, go multi,go multi"

old hippy · 28-02-2013 02:02PM

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

There have been studies conducted of toddlers in an environment with several races, and yes, they will usually communicate and play with others of their own race, by nature.

Does that mean we have some racist babies? Oh noes!

Black, white, brown, yellow. Doesn't matter. They, by and large, preferred their own.

We can accept this, or try and keep pushing people together. Id go with the former.

Absolute horseshyt. Sometimes I wish people like the above weren't banned because it would be interesting to find out where they get their stats and so forth.

ScumLord · 28-02-2013 02:20PM

Bambi wrote: »

I dont think the romans had other cultures applying for membership of their empire, they were a bit more evangelistic than that

anywhoo, si fueris Rōmae Rōmānō vīvitō mōre - si fueris alibī, vīvitō sicut ibi

When Rome was in it's early days (a farming settlement) they did have an influx of people, that's were they got all their fancy technologies from. In the middle of the Roman empire they took everything they wanted but at the same time, the Roman lifestyle was being exported all over Europe and people preferred it to whatever kind of lifestyle they had before. As long as they were the Romans and not the slaves.

old hippy · 28-02-2013 02:23PM

ScumLord wrote: »

When Rome was in it's early days (a farming settlement) they did have an influx of people, that's were they got all their fancy technologies from. In the middle of the Roman empire they took everything they wanted but at the same time, the Roman lifestyle was being exported all over Europe and people preferred it to whatever kind of lifestyle they had before. As long as they were the Romans and not the slaves.

I'm told that Roman London was quite a multicultural town, back in the day...

Hoop66 · 28-02-2013 03:11PM

old hippy wrote: »

I'm told that Roman London was quite a multicultural town, back in the day...

meridiem fluminis? hoc tempore nocte?

Wibbs · 28-02-2013 03:26PM

9959 wrote: »

One grouping is prone to eristical flights of fancy, looping the loop with their Latin quotations and philosophical conundrums, and giving cover - however inadvertently - to the other grouping, which consists of a ragbag of Islamophobes, reactionaries, latent racists and xenophobic rabble-rousers.

Giving cover eh? Inadvertent racists, though the however qualifies that. Give me an ever loving break. Why not argue the points raised by the "philosophical conundrums"? By not doing so that gives more succour to the "racists" surely?

By the way, it's alleged that a variant of "When in Rome", was uttered by a hospital worker to Savita Halappanavar in her hour of need, sometimes even the apparently perfectly non-sexist, totally democratic, culture of the 'host' country can do with some improvement, with or without the influence of those from 'inferior' places, or indeed Rome.

Ahh the cultural relativist scrabbles for an example and comes up with that? We'll skim over the alleged part. It's been alleged that Africans get free prams on the social so...The Sativa case was a tragedy and no mistake and an area that really needs an update to our law and practices(and hopefully this case will be the catalyst), but and it's a big but, the average woman giving birth in an Indian hospital has a significantly higher risk to her and her baby than a woman in Ireland giving birth. This very day you can be sure there are "Sativas" who have or will die today and/or their babies will die today in India's medical system. If they even have access to their medical system in the first place. I found it a bit rich that this case had some among the Indian and Irish press all too ready to cry "outrage". Bad enough when it's our own self haters, but for Indian media to join in? GTFO lads. More to the point it's bloody likely our laws and practices will be changed. Will Indias? One reason this case stands out is because such an event is so rare in Ireland. This country regularly hits the top spot worldwide for being the safest nation on earth to give birth in. So your example is beyond a joke, it's a woefully inaccurate one.

That's just in one area. Compared to Ireland India has more social equality, more sexual equality, a better standard of living, a less corrupt infrastructure and government, fewer people starving to death, fewer murders, rapes and attacks on women, fewer unsupported widows, fewer child brides, fewer... Oh wait...Hang on a second... They don't. Put it another way, where would you prefer to have been born and live in as an average citizen? Answers on a postcard please, or as the saying goes would you go away outa that.

I believe that the injunction 'Don't Feed The Trolls' is strongly recommended on this forum.
May I suggest another to the more erudite among you.

DON'T FEED THE RACISTS!

I find the "hippie" as bad as the "nazi" in one respect, both see reds/blacks/racists[delete as applicable] under the bed to a near paranoid degree and neither are t happy to engage in actual dialogue that might meet in the middle. And both are usually wrong.

old hippy wrote:

I'm told that Roman London was quite a multicultural town, back in the day...

It was, as were most Roman cities and towns. They were quite the xenophobic culture in other ways, but so long as you identified as Roman you were grand. So long as you were one of us, not them then cool. Colour, creed or origin seemed to not be such a big deal at all. Colour least of all. The Egyptians weren't much different, certainly by the later Greek period. Some of the more out there African American historians claim Cleopatra as "black" which is pretty daft as she was the last of the Ptolemys, a Greek family. The joke is the debate itself wouldn't have come up in her society.

28-02-2013 06:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Giving cover eh? Inadvertent racists, though the however qualifies that. Give me an ever loving break. Why not argue the points raised by the "philosophical conundrums"? By not doing so that gives more succour to the "racists" surely?

Ahh the cultural relativist scrabbles for an example and comes up with that? We'll skim over the alleged part. It's been alleged that Africans get free prams on the social so...The Sativa case was a tragedy and no mistake and an area that really needs an update to our law and practices(and hopefully this case will be the catalyst), but and it's a big but, the average woman giving birth in an Indian hospital has a significantly higher risk to her and her baby than a woman in Ireland giving birth. This very day you can be sure there are "Sativas" who have or will die today and/or their babies will die today in India's medical system. If they even have access to their medical system in the first place. I found it a bit rich that this case had some among the Indian and Irish press all too ready to cry "outrage". Bad enough when it's our own self haters, but for Indian media to join in? GTFO lads. More to the point it's bloody likely our laws and practices will be changed. Will Indias? One reason this case stands out is because such an event is so rare in Ireland. This country regularly hits the top spot worldwide for being the safest nation on earth to give birth in. So your example is beyond a joke, it's a woefully inaccurate one.

That's just in one area. Compared to Ireland India has more social equality, more sexual equality, a better standard of living, a less corrupt infrastructure and government, fewer people starving to death, fewer murders, rapes and attacks on women, fewer unsupported widows, fewer child brides, fewer... Oh wait...Hang on a second... They don't. Put it another way, where would you prefer to have been born and live in as an average citizen? Answers on a postcard please, or as the saying goes would you go away outa that.

I find the "hippie" as bad as the "nazi" in one respect, both see reds/blacks/racists[delete as applicable] under the bed to a near paranoid degree and neither are t happy to engage in actual dialogue that might meet in the middle. And both are usually wrong.

It was, as were most Roman cities and towns. They were quite the xenophobic culture in other ways, but so long as you identified as Roman you were grand. So long as you were one of us, not them then cool. Colour, creed or origin seemed to not be such a big deal at all. Colour least of all. The Egyptians weren't much different, certainly by the later Greek period. Some of the more out there African American historians claim Cleopatra as "black" which is pretty daft as she was the last of the Ptolemys, a Greek family. The joke is the debate itself wouldn't have come up in her society.

Next time you use one of my posts to launch one of your ex cathedra specials, at least have the decency to read it, I never mentioned, or used the term,"inadvertent racists", and if you believe that those of a racist persuasion are remotely interested in seeing you or I doing the 'mashed potato' on the head of a philosophical pin, then I believe that you haven't read some of the more 'colourful' contributions to this thread.
However, your anti-India rant would have been gratefully recieved by those intent on driving a wedge between 'us' and 'other', that's what I meant by inadvertently giving cover.

"I find 'hippie' as bad as 'nazi' in one respect"

What a glib thing to say, you know it's 'bollocks', but you typed it anyway.

Finding fault, or potential faults, with muticulturalism is all fine and dandy when you have a fail-safe alternative, what's yours?

0066ad · 28-02-2013 06:57PM

9959 wrote: »

Next time you use one of my posts to launch one of your ex cathedra specials, at least have the decency to read it, I never mentioned, or used the term,"inadvertent racists", and if you believe that those of a racist persuasion are remotely interested in seeing you or I doing the 'mashed potato' on the head of a philosophical pin, then I believe that you haven't read some of the more 'colourful' contributions to this thread.
However, your anti-India rant would have been gratefully recieved by those intent on driving a wedge between 'us' and 'other', that's what I meant by inadvertently giving cover.

"I find 'hippie' as bad as 'nazi' in one respect"

What a glib thing to say, you know it's 'bollocks', but you typed it anyway.

Finding fault, or potential faults, with muticulturalism is all fine and dandy when you have a fail-safe alternative, what's yours?

How is it bollocks? you hippie

GottaGetGatt · 28-02-2013 07:09PM

The answer is simple , go to Birmingham and get the bus from New street station to Hall Green.As you look out the window of the bus for the half hour journey.You wont see one whiteperson for the entire journey. Ask yourself would you like to see Ireland like this.My answer is definitively NO.Good enough for the UK their were the ones who occupied other countries>The people there just followed them back.

Nodin · 28-02-2013 07:14PM

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

The answer is simple , go to Birmingham and get the bus from New street station to Hall Green.As you look out the window of the bus for the half hour journey.You wont see one whiteperson for the entire journey. Ask yourself would you like to see Ireland like this.My answer is definitively NO.Good enough for the UK their were the ones who occupied other countries>The people there just followed them back.

But sure what odds is skin colour?

28-02-2013 07:17PM

0066ad wrote: »

How is it bollocks? you hippie

I've never in my life been accused of being a hippy, having said that, I'll take a hippy over a Nazi any day.
*Achtung baby!:D

*Mel Brooks' 'The Producers', not that other 'bollocks'.

Nodin · 28-02-2013 07:20PM

9959 wrote: »

I've never in my life been accused of being a hippy, having said that, I'll take a hippy over a Nazi any day.
*Achtung baby!:D

*Mel Brooks' 'The Producers', not that other 'bollocks'.

Its one of the joys of the internet. You can get called things so far off the mark its hilarious.

ScumLord · 28-02-2013 07:20PM

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

The answer is simple , go to Birmingham and get the bus from New street station to Hall Green.As you look out the window of the bus for the half hour journey.You wont see one whiteperson for the entire journey. Ask yourself would you like to see Ireland like this.My answer is definitively NO.Good enough for the UK their were the ones who occupied other countries>The people there just followed them back.

I've spent plenty of time in Birmingham staying in what is considered to be a very Pakistani neighbourhood. I was staying in the last of the Irish pubs in the area and it was wedged with white people. However talking to the Pakistanis and dealing with them I had no issues and for the most part they all came off as Brits to me. Just like if I see an African American next to a Irish American it's plain to see the two are Americans even though they may have different skin colour.

old hippy · 28-02-2013 07:44PM

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

The answer is simple , go to Birmingham and get the bus from New street station to Hall Green.As you look out the window of the bus for the half hour journey.You wont see one whiteperson for the entire journey. Ask yourself would you like to see Ireland like this.My answer is definitively NO.Good enough for the UK their were the ones who occupied other countries>The people there just followed them back.

I must be blind because whenever I look at people, I don't see colour. I see people. I suggest next time you go travelling, go a bit further. I hear it broadens your mind.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 28-02-2013 07:51PM

old hippy wrote: »

I must be blind because whenever I look at people, I don't see colour. I see people. I suggest next time you go travelling, go a bit further. I hear it broadens your mind.

Pass the puke bag please.

old hippy · 28-02-2013 07:54PM

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Pass the puke bag please.

So you agree with the Brummie Bus journeyman, then? Aching for an all white vista, are we?

Wibbs · 28-02-2013 07:55PM

9959 wrote: »

Next time you use one of my posts to launch one of your ex cathedra specials, at least have the decency to read it, I never mentioned, or used the term,"inadvertent racists",

Oh I read it alright. Dunno where you're getting ex cathedra from but work away there Ted(no pun).

and if you believe that those of a racist persuasion are remotely interested in seeing you or I doing the 'mashed potato' on the head of a philosophical pin, then I believe that you haven't read some of the more 'colourful' contributions to this thread.

And you don't see how open discussion on the subject might change minds?

However, your anti-India rant would have been gratefully recieved by those intent on driving a wedge between 'us' and 'other', that's what I meant by inadvertently giving cover.

Why? It happens to be true. Some sections of the Indian media were happy out judging us to which I reply GTFO. Get their own pretty shambolic house in order. Judge us on one case? Yea try digging into the infant mortality rate in their own back yard. Might serve them better.

"I find 'hippie' as bad as 'nazi' in one respect"

What a glib thing to say, you know it's 'bollocks', but you typed it anyway.

No, I don't personally find it to be bollocks. I do find hippies and nazi types to have some crossover in attitude. Both have a set viewpoint usually unassailable to discussion, both tend to be paranoid about opposing views and how many may hold them, both are quick to point the finger, both tend to be reactionary and both tend to be informed only when that information suits them and their worldview. Hippies have far better music mind you.

Finding fault, or potential faults, with muticulturalism is all fine and dandy when you have a fail-safe alternative, what's yours?

For a start we have to define the type of multiculturalism at play. Personally I don't favour the "all are welcome under the banner of it's your culture so that's grand" type. I do consider some cultures to be inferior to others in many respects, particularly when it comes to equality of human rights and how they may see those applied.

Let's forget the the blue touch paper that is the "foridners" here for a second. Do people think that Catholic Ireland of the 1950's and all that came with it was a better culture than the more pluralist and more secular Ireland of today? I'd be pretty sure the vast majority would not. Now imagine*harp music, screen dissolves* if Mad Mick O'Swiveleye, the bonkers boffin from Ballygobackwards invented a time machine in 1955 and say 60,000 of the most fervent of good oul Catholic Ireland walked through a temporal door in O'Connell street and wanted to live here and wanted to keep living in exactly the same way and looked down upon and berated modern Ireland. Most would laugh and point at them. The church haters and the "hippies" and ordinary people would be out en masse to oppose them. Hell I'd be carrying a loudhailer myself. After Hours would explode, the Science forums would faint and the Conspiracy forum would burn out the servers. However if they are "foreign" many holding the same and sometimes worse cultural baggage that makes it kinda alright, if a little uncomfortable for the same people who would protest the imaginary influx of 1950's Irish crawthumpers.

My form of multiculturalism? Please, come on in, involve yourself in your new culture, don't segregate yourselves(and don't segregate them from outside), be Irish or wherever first, not origin culture first and leave the dodgier aspects of your old culture behind. When in Rome and all that. And for me that goes both ways. If you move to say Saudi Arabia and you get drunk on the street or swan about stripped to the waste and don't engage with the locals, preferring instead to stay behind gated compounds among your own, then GTFO. Ditto for the examples given earlier of those who move to Spain and never learn a word of the language, eat drink and socialise as if you're living in a sunnier Cork, then you GTFO too. It's damned bad manners if nothing else.

To be fair so far among the immigrant folks I've met over the years most are integrating, most are bringing something of value to the place and that's cool and the gang. I've met some tools mind you who most certainly do not, but as I say we've been very lucky here compared to other nations. Long may that continue.

crockholm · 28-02-2013 08:11PM

Dunno wibbles ol'bean, "Horst Wessel Lied" is pretty funky on the jazz flute

Nodin · 28-02-2013 09:14PM

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

lol, im being accused of being a white supremacist because i dont want to live in an area which has a densely populated Indian or Pakistan population? yeah good theory there Sherlock

Well....why don't you want to live there....?

28-02-2013 09:25PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I read it alright. Dunno where you're getting ex cathedra from but work away there Ted(no pun). And you don't see how open discussion on the subject might change minds?
Why? It happens to be true. Some sections of the Indian media were happy out judging us to which I reply GTFO. Get their own pretty shambolic house in order. Judge us on one case? Yea try digging into the infant mortality rate in their own back yard. Might serve them better.

No, I don't personally find it to be bollocks. I do find hippies and nazi types to have some crossover in attitude. Both have a set viewpoint usually unassailable to discussion, both tend to be paranoid about opposing views and how many may hold them, both are quick to point the finger, both tend to be reactionary and both tend to be informed only when that information suits them and their worldview. Hippies have far better music mind you.

For a start we have to define the type of multiculturalism at play. Personally I don't favour the "all are welcome under the banner of it's your culture so that's grand" type. I do consider some cultures to be inferior to others in many respects, particularly when it comes to equality of human rights and how they may see those applied.

Let's forget the the blue touch paper that is the "foridners" here for a second. Do people think that Catholic Ireland of the 1950's and all that came with it was a better culture than the more pluralist and more secular Ireland of today? I'd be pretty sure the vast majority would not. Now imagine*harp music, screen dissolves* if Mad Mick O'Swiveleye, the bonkers boffin from Ballygobackwards invented a time machine in 1955 and say 60,000 of the most fervent of good oul Catholic Ireland walked through a temporal door in O'Connell street and wanted to live here and wanted to keep living in exactly the same way and looked down upon and berated modern Ireland. Most would laugh and point at them. The church haters and the "hippies" and ordinary people would be out en masse to oppose them. Hell I'd be carrying a loudhailer myself. After Hours would explode, the Science forums would faint and the Conspiracy forum would burn out the servers. However if they are "foreign" many holding the same and sometimes worse cultural baggage that makes it kinda alright, if a little uncomfortable for the same people who would protest the imaginary influx of 1950's Irish crawthumpers.

My form of multiculturalism? Please, come on in, involve yourself in your new culture, don't segregate yourselves(and don't segregate them from outside), be Irish or wherever first, not origin culture first and leave the dodgier aspects of your old culture behind. When in Rome and all that. And for me that goes both ways. If you move to say Saudi Arabia and you get drunk on the street or swan about stripped to the waste and don't engage with the locals, preferring instead to stay behind gated compounds among your own, then GTFO. Ditto for the examples given earlier of those who move to Spain and never learn a word of the language, eat drink and socialise as if you're living in a sunnier Cork, then you GTFO too. It's damned bad manners if nothing else.

To be fair so far among the immigrant folks I've met over the years most are integrating, most are bringing something of value to the place and that's cool and the gang. I've met some tools mind you who most certainly do not, but as I say we've been very lucky here compared to other nations. Long may that continue.

With respect, the above reads as a slightly long-winded 'approval' of muticulturalism, but with the odd proviso.
I thought you had some innovative, radical idea to offer us by way of an alternative, though I must say that your intense dislike of hippies is novel enough, perhaps Wibbs could be to Old Hippies what Simon Wiesenthal was to old Nazis, notwithstanding 'Old Hippy' of this parish, who seems to me, despite his moniker, to be a good man with a backbone.
By the way, can you define 'hippy music'?

Nodin · 28-02-2013 09:26PM

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

Well its simple people naturally want to be around there own individual culture. Thats why all over the world culture's have settled in areas where they is predominately an abundance of their own culture.Why do Irish people always go to Irish bars whenever abroad, well because they want to around other irish people.Why wouldn't i live there? sure there'd be no Craic!

In the space of three or so posts, you've gone from talking about skin colour, to "Indian and Pakistan(sic)" people, to talking about "culture". You strike me as a tad confused.

clairefontaine · 28-02-2013 09:26PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I read it alright. Dunno where you're getting ex cathedra from but work away there Ted(no pun). And you don't see how open discussion on the subject might change minds?
Why? It happens to be true. Some sections of the Indian media were happy out judging us to which I reply GTFO. Get their own pretty shambolic house in order. Judge us on one case? Yea try digging into the infant mortality rate in their own back yard. Might serve them better.

No, I don't personally find it to be bollocks. I do find hippies and nazi types to have some crossover in attitude. Both have a set viewpoint usually unassailable to discussion, both tend to be paranoid about opposing views and how many may hold them, both are quick to point the finger, both tend to be reactionary and both tend to be informed only when that information suits them and their worldview. Hippies have far better music mind you.

For a start we have to define the type of multiculturalism at play. Personally I don't favour the "all are welcome under the banner of it's your culture so that's grand" type. I do consider some cultures to be inferior to others in many respects, particularly when it comes to equality of human rights and how they may see those applied.

Let's forget the the blue touch paper that is the "foridners" here for a second. Do people think that Catholic Ireland of the 1950's and all that came with it was a better culture than the more pluralist and more secular Ireland of today? I'd be pretty sure the vast majority would not. Now imagine*harp music, screen dissolves* if Mad Mick O'Swiveleye, the bonkers boffin from Ballygobackwards invented a time machine in 1955 and say 60,000 of the most fervent of good oul Catholic Ireland walked through a temporal door in O'Connell street and wanted to live here and wanted to keep living in exactly the same way and looked down upon and berated modern Ireland. Most would laugh and point at them. The church haters and the "hippies" and ordinary people would be out en masse to oppose them. Hell I'd be carrying a loudhailer myself. After Hours would explode, the Science forums would faint and the Conspiracy forum would burn out the servers. However if they are "foreign" many holding the same and sometimes worse cultural baggage that makes it kinda alright, if a little uncomfortable for the same people who would protest the imaginary influx of 1950's Irish crawthumpers.

My form of multiculturalism? Please, come on in, involve yourself in your new culture, don't segregate yourselves(and don't segregate them from outside), be Irish or wherever first, not origin culture first and leave the dodgier aspects of your old culture behind. When in Rome and all that. And for me that goes both ways. If you move to say Saudi Arabia and you get drunk on the street or swan about stripped to the waste and don't engage with the locals, preferring instead to stay behind gated compounds among your own, then GTFO. Ditto for the examples given earlier of those who move to Spain and never learn a word of the language, eat drink and socialise as if you're living in a sunnier Cork, then you GTFO too. It's damned bad manners if nothing else.

To be fair so far among the immigrant folks I've met over the years most are integrating, most are bringing something of value to the place and that's cool and the gang. I've met some tools mind you who most certainly do not, but as I say we've been very lucky here compared to other nations. Long may that continue.

A lot of what you say makes sense.

But asking foreigners to integrate in Ireland is asking too much [think outside Dublin]. Ireland is not an integrate friendly place, it is still very clannish, socialising revolves around the pub or church, and they don't trust or like blow ins. They stick to their families and people they have known for 30 years.

Out of curiosity would the anyone cared in the Savita case if the woman was Irish? Would it have just been brushed under the carpet?

Pumpkinseeds · 28-02-2013 09:50PM

I think multi-culturism is a good thing. I can remember when my town was largely white and catholic. I don't think the problem is culture, its more to do with personality in a lot of cases, which is no different in the case of Irish people. Many immigrants have a very positive impact on the community. So long as people coming to live here are willing to work I don't see that there is a problem.

I know that a lot of Irish people get annoyed at the way in which some immigrants tend to form communities of their own within the town but the Irish do the very same when we emigrate. I got bloody sick and tired of people nagging me to go to the local Irish club when I lived in England. I never did.

old hippy · 28-02-2013 10:15PM

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

lol, im being accused of being a white supremacist because i dont want to live in an area which has a densely populated Indian or Pakistan population? yeah good theory there Sherlock

Wow. You do realise you've let the mask slip, don't you? Love it when that happens.

AlekSmart · 01-03-2013 12:03AM

crockholm wrote: »

Dunno wibbles ol'bean, "Horst Wessel Lied" is pretty funky on the jazz flute

I'd imagine even the odd oul Hipster will be tappin a toe to this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3G_0smBvs

Just love how the last 15 secs ventures into Mike Oldfield territory.....:p

Wibbs · 01-03-2013 12:11AM

9959 wrote: »

With respect, the above reads as a slightly long-winded 'approval' of muticulturalism, but with the odd proviso.

The proviso is where the point lays. I know this grey area is where the dogmatic of all hues find difficulty, so hardly unexpected.

I thought you had some innovative, radical idea to offer us by way of an alternative, though I must say that your intense dislike of hippies is novel enough, perhaps Wibbs could be to Old Hippies what Simon Wiesenthal was to old Nazis, notwithstanding 'Old Hippy' of this parish, who seems to me, despite his moniker, to be a good man with a backbone.
By the way, can you define 'hippy music'?

And this is what you consider to be a rebuttal, debate or argument? Fair enough, but might I suggest you sit back, have an oul think and try again? For a start try answering(as Wileycoyote did) my original points. I'll not hold my breath. Though I like the colour blue that doesn't extend to my own skin tone.

old hippy wrote:

Wow. You do realise you've let the mask slip, don't you? Love it when that happens.

Granted, but what about non white/Irish/whomever who prefer to live "among their own" and actively seek that out in their new homelands? Are they letting the mask slip too?

clairefontaine wrote: »

A lot of what you say makes sense.

But asking foreigners to integrate in Ireland is asking too much [think outside Dublin]. Ireland is not an integrate friendly place, it is still very clannish, socialising revolves around the pub or church, and they don't trust or like blow ins. They stick to their families and people they have known for 30 years.

True enough, we're very clannish and insular, "New blood" should be a welcome thing in that mix.

Out of curiosity would the anyone cared in the Savita case if the woman was Irish? Would it have just been brushed under the carpet?

I dont think so. It would have been noted, however her being non Irish plugged into our "oh jesus what will the neighbours think" mentality so it got more airtime. Good. Hopefully it'll shine enough of a light to actually change things. However like I said when Indian media starts pointing the finger I do think feck right off you bloody hypocrites. Shining a light on your own disastrous social culture and policies would do a lot more.

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I think multi-culturism is a good thing. I can remember when my town was largely white and catholic.

Ok but what is wrong with "white and (a la carte)catholic"? Is that not an equally valid culture? There's the rub folks.

I don't think the problem is culture, its more to do with personality in a lot of cases, which is no different in the case of Irish people. Many immigrants have a very positive impact on the community. So long as people coming to live here are willing to work I don't see that there is a problem.

+1

I know that a lot of Irish people get annoyed at the way in which some immigrants tend to form communities of their own within the town but the Irish do the very same when we emigrate.

Yep it's daft, so why is it less daft when others do it?

Grand Moff Tarkin · 01-03-2013 03:43AM

old hippy wrote: »

So you agree with the Brummie Bus journeyman, then? Aching for an all white vista, are we?

No just the sentiments in the post are a bit much to hope for in Ireland. Maybe in another few years but not at this time. As for the Busman i think he is telling porkies.

AlekSmart · 01-03-2013 07:15AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Shining a light on your own disastrous social culture and policies would do a lot more.

Absolutely true,and no better place in the region to start than the Maldives....?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/sentenced-to-100-lashes-in-the-maldives-15yearold-girl-raped-by-stepfather-who-then-murdered-baby-8513293.html

The Maldivian Government are to appeal this decision to a Higher Court,as the sentence was delivered by the Childrens Court......but,hey,it's in adherence to their religious Culture,Beliefs and Preferences,so it's gotta be good...Ya.??????

Perhaps it's A La Carte Multiculturalism that's the way forward (Backward ?)

Nodin · 01-03-2013 07:30AM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Absolutely true,and no better place in the region to start than the Maldives....?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/sentenced-to-100-lashes-in-the-maldives-15yearold-girl-raped-by-stepfather-who-then-murdered-baby-8513293.html

The Maldivian Government are to appeal this decision to a Higher Court,as the sentence was delivered by the Childrens Court......but,hey,it's in adherence to their religious Culture,Beliefs and Preferences,so it's gotta be good...Ya.??????

Perhaps it's A La Carte Multiculturalism that's the way forward (Backward ?)

You might point out to me any Western country that practices multiculturalism of any hue that allows such....

01-03-2013 11:08AM

Wibbs wrote: »

The proviso is where the point lays. I know this grey area is where the dogmatic of all hues find difficulty, so hardly unexpected.
And this is what you consider to be a rebuttal, debate or argument? Fair enough, but might I suggest you sit back, have an oul think and try again? For a start try answering(as Wileycoyote did) my original points. I'll not hold my breath. Though I like the colour blue that doesn't extend to my own skin tone.

There are "grey areas" in all political systems, and walks of life, the fact that you choose to magnify and draw attention to potential conflict in multiculturalism dosen't render it unworkable.
For example, according to 'capiitalist dogma', when Anglo-Irish went belly-up, then that particular institution's bond holders should have taken a bath, but the goalposts were shifted, rightly or wrongly, to suit the circumstances of the day, would you now argue - using your proviso is where the point lays that capitalism is unworkable and should therefore be scrapped as a concept.
Similarly, the right to free speech is one which we trumpet loudly and hold dear in this part of the world, but how come I can't shout "FIRE" in a crowded theatre, or suggest that all people from 'Makeyupland' are subhuman and should all be shot in their own balls of ****e?, you know the answer, every system involving human beings is imperfect and must be adjusted in the interests of fairness, safety, common sense etc, people are resourceful and good at this type of thing, you're perfectly entitled to your sceptism in regard to multiculturalism but some of us are more optimistimistic about the resourcefulness of human beings and their ability to find solutions to seemingly insurmountable problems, and frankly the few scraps that you've thrown on the road by way of a potential barrier to muticulturalism are hardly deal breakers.

I'm still holding my breath for your alternative to multiculturalism, other than your pick 'n' mix perhaps a bit of this, and maybe a bit of that.

You suggest that I sit back and have an oul think, well I suggest that you should STEP FORWARD and give us your non-dogmatic, guaranteed problem-free alternative to muticulturalism.
What's it called?
How will it work?
Help us here oh wise one.

Is multiculturalism wanted??

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