Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

This is, for adults too, a big issue. I was working in a progressive Californian company - one where an internal survey showed recently that 95% voted for Obama - where a pre-OP guy wanted to use the female toilet. Later, post Op there wasn't an issue, but when he looked like a male the female employees were united in saying No. ( Call it CIS-Gender privilege).

If we take sexual dysphoria seriously then any male, unsatisfied with his sex, could get a note from a compliant shrink, and legally change gender but not sex. Allowing him into the female changing rooms swinging his big old member, and bemoaning cis-gender privilege and sex-body-fetishisation of the aghast females within.

I think we can see why old school feminists are not totally on board with this.

He was probably seen as some perv who wanted to peruse the female toilets or a potential sex offender or something like that. Or what about changing rooms in department stores?

I can see the problem and I can't say I blame them, except for being hypocritical liberals.

In New York State you can change the sex on your birth cert if you are post op.

However, grown adults getting invalidation from strangers is a totally different scale to a child getting regular negation from his or her parents, it is the root of many a desperate mental illness.

mango salsa wrote: »

Gender and Sex are actually different

Nope.

Links234 wrote: »

The only thing that disturbs me about the story is that the school made an issue in the first place.

All evidence we have on what causes transsexualism is that it is something that happens in utero, before the person is born. If you read the personal accounts of transgender people the world over, a vast majority of them will tell you they knew from a very early age.

If we understand that this is something that is an inborn trait, just like we understand sexuality now, and know that it is something that does not go away, then letting the girl just be herself is the right course of action. Attempting to force her to be something she is not would be cruel and abusive, and you could no more try to force her to not be transgender than those evangelical christians can force kids who display traits of homosexuality and are shipped off to pray away the gay camps to not be gay.

This is not a new phenomenon either, we have scores of children who are allowed to be themselves from all over the world. Her parents are standing on the shoulders of giants so to speak, because this is not something new what so ever. Here's someone else who was allowed to be themselves since childhood:

Links I think you have to be understanding of the fact that to most people, the mother comes off as a bit unhinged because of her enthusiastic propensity to use the child as a means to garner attention and validation for herself.

Nobody has an issue with the child and whether they may or may not be trans, it's the mother that has stunted the child's world view while at the same time shoving them up on the world stage to be paraded as some sort of new messiah and isn't she great for bringing him into the world, at the cost of giving her attention to her four other children, who will no doubt feel like they have missed out in competing for her affection and validation.

As you say yourself, transgenderism is nothing new, but it's still enough of a niche media story and even as I'm typing this I'm watching "Loose Women" on ITV talking to an actress from "Waterloo Road" who is due to play the role of a trans person. The panel had a good giggle about it first before they try to come off as "all open minded understanding and shìt", but the point is their first reaction- one of ridicule and derision, and that's all the world media care about- the more unusual the story, the more sticky eyeballs they'll get, nothing to do whatsoever with raising awareness of the issue, but just using an issue that is a reality for a lot of people, to get viewing figures up, because people love a good gossipy chin wag, without thinking about the deeper and more wide ranging spectrum of underlying issues involved.

It's all fine and well saying "let the child be a child, let them do what they want", but that outlook has to be tempered by instilling in the child a sense of responsibility and awareness that not everyone is going to agree with their world view that has been confined by their parents merely to focus on their gender identity. You have a responsibility as a parent / guardian / adult to understand how your attitude and opinions can influence / shape / contort / confine a child's world view, and it is your responsibility to ensure the child has the maturity and is given the tools to extrapolate their own world view, not just based on your world view, but from as many influences as possible, so they can understand better the world around them and understand the possible consequences of their decisions, and the influence THEY can have on other people around them.

In this particular case, the mother is enabling the child's miniaturised and closed off world view by making the child believe they are at it's centre, and the world will revolve around them and adapt itself accordingly to accommodate them.

This leads in later life to the child who has by now grown into an adult not having the basic tools to enable them to tolerate those who disagree with their skewed and confined world view that was instilled in them in childhood. The adult can find this very hard to deal with, having been accommodated and "understood" their whole life, and now suddenly they are thrust into a world where they feel nobody understands them, and for them it increases exponentially feelings of intimidation and isolation, to the point where some people feel they can't cope, because they lack the coping mechanisms that should have been instilled in them in childhood.


That, to me, is a far more cruel thing to do to a child, than telling them go back in and take off their mothers dress.

I'm ok with the child pìssing and moaning for a whole five minutes than cripple them emotionally for the rest of their lives by enabling and approving of their attention seeking behaviour before they're even mature enough to fully grasp the concept that their decisions have consequences that not everyone they meet is going to agree with them for.

Transgenderism is just ONE issue in which an adult's world view can influence children, there are a whole multitude of others, and one shouldn't become the primary focus at the cost of another if we want children to grow up with a truly well rounded and open minded view of the world they create, sans not just transphobia, but also free of all types of discrimination- homophobia, xenophobia, racism, sexism, etc.

starlings wrote: »

Easy there now Kev!

It's OTT to go on about disgust and feeling sick, when it's not very likely that you'll ever end up in a Crying Game situation. I'd hope that if a trans woman ever tells you about her past and says she's interested in you, that you could be a gentleman about it and decline politely.

I've had a few encounters that didn't do it for me at all, and one that still embarrasses me to remember, though I thought going into them that they'd be good. But the last thing I'd do is go into the details with someone who turned me off, or describe it to anyone else. How would you feel if a girl went screeching to her friends about how disgusting she found you?

Of course I'll decline politely! I wouldn't freak out and start wrecking the place, I just probably would if I wasn't told that info before something happened. You get me?

Ah but you see that is different, they would know I am a man before anything happened. I was talking about if I found out afterwards. Sure there is no harm done if I know about it! I would just avoid that person sexually.

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Of course I'll decline politely! I wouldn't freak out and start wrecking the place, I just probably would if I wasn't told that info before something happened. You get me?

Ah but you see that is different, they would know I am a man before anything happened. I was talking about if I found out afterwards. Sure there is no harm done if I know about it! I would just avoid that person sexually.

I would imagine - maybe people from the LGBT forum could help here? - that transgender men and women let their potential partners know about their transition before getting to the Crying Game stage. Otherwise there's a far greater risk of rejection and hurt, surely?

What I meant by going into detail about being turned off was that it's unnecessary. If someone doesn't do it for me, that's my business, not theirs, so it'd be cruel to criticise them, either to their face or behind their back.