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Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

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Comments

  • #152
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Praetorian Saighdiuir wrote: »
    Now now, I mentioned "disgusted" not "disgusting". As in, Im disgusted at the parents.

    Try not to twist anyones elses comments to validate your points.

    Very well. What "disgusted" you? Strong word. If, as Madam X pointed out, a girl was allowed to wear trousers and ride a dirt bike would you be equally "disgusted"?


  • #153
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    According to the articles it was in fact the moment that the Child had begun to indicate it's gender.

    Clearly it was the catalyst for the gender reassignment.

    No. The OP says "presented" at 18 mos. That is far from a diagnosis.

    You can show signs of something without it ever manifesting into something fully. It's not until you see the full manifest that those previous signs are read as something.

    Let's say you had a headache last week. Right now it was just a headache. Let's say you get a brain tumor diagnosis next year. The narrative will change; "he started presenting with symptoms February 2013."


  • #154
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Nimrod 7 wrote: »
    Ever hear of professional psychologists?
    Maybe the parents should have consulted with one(at least) and asked them what they thought, after all even young adults who are confused about their gender go for therapy before making huge decisions..so why should it be different for parents the parents of this child who decided to dress up the child as a girl from 18 months old?

    I know the child is 7 now

    What is the 'problem' we are trying to solve by involving psychologists at the age of seven?


  • #155
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    MadsL wrote: »
    They have a girl, possibly more.

    and

    The Colorado-based parents of a 6-year-old transgender girl

    can we stop with the 18 month old silliness!

    People here know how old the child is!

    The moment the child enrolled in the Elementary school could not possibly have been considered the exact moment that she began to be identified as a girl by both her Parents and the School's faculty, it would almost certainly have been a much longer process.

    As far as the article is concerned, it began when she was 18 months old.


  • #156
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    At the age of 4 my child told me they were the Greek hero Hercules. Should I have listened to the child and sought Olympian toilets from their school?

    You can continue to think of absurdities if you like. They are not that funny, and pretty pointless.

    Care to actually have a debate about young children describing their gender identity instead?


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  • #157
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    MadsL wrote: »
    Played with 'girls' toys from 18 months, identified as a girl fom the age of four.



    But obviously the parents are evil as the child is "different".
    Nobody said anything about the parents being evil due to the child being different; they have expressed distaste at the parents possibly forcing a gender identity on the child.

    Fair enough on the stuff that started happening from four - that could indicate something; the 18 months thing in that case is a red herring by whomever wrote the story.

    Not sure why you thanked my last post by the way - what I'm saying is: why the possibility of being transgender if a very small boy likes girlie stuff... yet "she's just a little tomboy", no concerns that she might be transgender/gay if a small girl likes boyish stuff. It contradicts your stance, which seems to be "Don't let a small boy do his thing - assign a gender to him early... so long as you're not being conventional."


  • #158
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    MadsL wrote: »
    I did. I asked if you felt that the law should intervene and prevent this family's actions?

    Yes or No?

    No you didn't, kindly try to keep track of who you are addressing your strawmany, water muddying, deliberately misrepresntative questions to.

    As to the question you addressed to someone who said nothing of the sort, I think there is enough about the situation to give the CPS cause to carry out an investigation to ascertain whether the parents are competent and/or have the child's best interests at heart.


  • #159
    The Maverick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭The Maverick


    MadsL wrote: »
    Ever hear of benefit of the doubt, if the child wants to dress and identify as a girl are you saying the law should intervene?

    When can a child make those decisions though? How old should they be? Did the parents make any effort to consult with a professional to see if this was a genuine issue or just a child's fantasy?

    You till didnt address my point from earlier. What if the child wants to be a dog? Should the parents just accept that, take the child out of school and let her/him run around the garden all day? Should the law intervene then do you think?


  • #160
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    MadsL wrote: »
    Very well. What "disgusted" you? Strong word. If, as Madam X pointed out, a girl was allowed to wear trousers and ride a dirt bike would you be equally "disgusted"?

    Feckin hell, you are really reaching now.

    Ya see the difference here is clear. Firstly in the OP it states "has presented as a female since she was 18-months-old" obviously by the parents.

    Your idiotic question, I would deduce that the girl opted for trousers and to ride a dirt bike.


  • #161
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    MadsL wrote: »
    You can continue to think of absurdities if you like. They are not that funny, and pretty pointless.

    Care to actually have a debate about young children describing their gender identity instead?

    I'd appreciate if you'd address the point I raised and not seek to define the debate to suit your narrow agenda.
    What is the qualitative difference between one four year old claiming to be a gender they are not and another four year old claiming to be a deity they are not?


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  • #162
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    MadsL wrote: »
    What is the 'problem' we are trying to solve by involving psychologists at the age of seven?

    The problem that this child is more than likely not transgender. Teenagers come out with these things when they realise what they are, it's not for parents to take drastic steps like this at 18 months!

    I know for a fact that I used to act feminine when I was that age, thank God my parents didn't start dressing me up cos I know damn well now that I'm a boy.


  • #163
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    MadsL wrote: »
    What is the 'problem' we are trying to solve by involving psychologists at the age of seven?

    Perhaps to establish if the child truly is having gender identity issues and how to deal with authorities in their lives, such as schools in how to best deal with the situation if Coy truly is a girl. Not to mention to help the parents (who are clearly very supportive, though I question their reasons) deal with it in a way that is ultimately best for Coy and to allow Coy be the person they truly are.


  • #164
    CollardGreens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 453 ✭✭CollardGreens


    On the contrary, we have had words such as "disgusting" banded about and calls for action to be taken against child abuse including forcible sterilization.

    And I stand by that. Look MadsL, I've always thought you are a good person and still do. What I am saying is that I DO NOT believe that people are "born that way", I believe it is a choice (and no, I do not believe homosexuals are born that way either). I am not saying these people that make these choices are evil people. That is one subject for possibly another thread, I'm just being honest in what I believe and I do have reasons I believe that way.

    As far as the parents, I do think they are bad people for making what I consider a poor "choice" for a child that is too young to know the difference.

    Please don't fault me for honesty?!


  • #165
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    MadsL wrote: »

    We could try simply listening to the child. That seems to be what this family did.

    Do you have kids?


  • #166
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    MadsL wrote: »

    You can continue to think of absurdities if you like. They are not that funny, and pretty pointless.

    Care to actually have a debate about young children describing their gender identity instead?
    You never answered my question regarding sexuality if a male child says he doesn't like girls. Because its something that all children do... But they're not all gay!


  • #167
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    MadsL wrote: »
    On the contrary, we have had words such as "disgusting" banded about and calls for action to be taken against child abuse including forcible sterilization.

    i think the word everyone else is thinking is arsehole.


  • #168
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    smash wrote: »
    You never answered my question regarding sexuality if a male child says he doesn't like girls. Because its something that all children do... But they're not all gay!

    Jesus Christ, what an absurd analogy. I did answer, I said listen to the child.


  • #169
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    I'd appreciate if you'd address the point I raised and not seek to define the debate to suit your narrow agenda.
    What is the qualitative difference between one four year old claiming to be a gender they are not and another four year old claiming to be a deity they are not?

    Because deities don't exist.

    And your kid probably claimed that on whimsy. If he truly started to believe he was a deity I'm sure you would take it seriously and start worrying that he had a psych problem for being delusional.


  • #170
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    I'm out. MadSL is gonna give me an ulcer at this rate. I commend you, MadSL, you lived up to your username. As an SL, whatever that is.







    There's no joke here.


  • #171
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    ITT: MadsL posts some nonsense in his ever going quest to defend America in AH.


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  • #172
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    No. The OP says "presented" at 18 mos. That is far from a diagnosis.

    You can show signs of something without it ever manifesting into something fully. It's not until you see the full manifest that those previous signs are read as something.

    Let's say you had a headache last week. Right now it was just a headache. Let's say you get a brain tumor diagnosis next year. The narrative will change; "he started presenting with symptoms February 2013."

    Unlike a headache, a Parent's understanding of a Child's gender identity is entirely subjective. Their actions in raising the child were inevitably made under the pretenses of these subjective observations.

    As such, the comparisons with Medicine is a bit far fetched, as Psychology is in no way an exact Science.


  • #173
    ashers22
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭ashers22


    MadsL wrote: »
    You can continue to think of absurdities if you like. They are not that funny, and pretty pointless.

    Care to actually have a debate about young children describing their gender identity instead?

    kind of want to but don't think it would be a good idea. I thik GID is a little too complex a subject for AH.


  • #174
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    MadsL wrote: »

    Jesus Christ, what an absurd analogy. I did answer, I said listen to the child.
    How is it absurd?


  • #175
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    MadsL wrote: »


    On the contrary, we have had words such as "disgusting" banded about and calls for action to be taken against child abuse including forcible sterilization.

    Hey MadsL i do think its disgusting that the parents have forced such a big choice on the child from an early age. Like other posters have said, they should have waited until the child was old enough to decide for himself at least closer to puberty. After that then i say best of look as long as she is happy. And guess what, im not catholic either.


  • #176
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    CollardGreens wrote: »
    And I stand by that. Look MadsL, I've always thought you are a good person and still do. What I am saying is that I DO NOT believe that people are "born that way", I believe it is a choice (and no, I do not believe homosexuals are born that way either). I am not saying these people that make these choices are evil people. That is one subject for possibly another thread, I'm just being honest in what I believe and I do have reasons I believe that way.

    As far as the parents, I do think they are bad people for making what I consider a poor "choice" for a child that is too young to know the difference.

    Please don't fault me for honesty?!

    I don't fault you for honesty, I just think you need to talk to some transgendered people. Most say they have always known, and it was never a choice for them.

    Calling for people to be sterilized who disagree with you is something else entirely.


  • #177
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    While many may think gender identity and confusion forms when a child is going through puberty, gender identity in children begins to form around the age of three. Gender identity is affected by influence of others, social interactions, and a child’s own personal interest. Understanding gender can be broken down into four parts: (1) understanding the concept of gender, (2) learning gender role standards and stereotypes, (3) identifying with parents, and (4) forming gender preference (Newman 243).


  • #178
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    smash wrote: »
    How is it absurd?

    Because not liking girls at an early age has nothing to do with sexuality.
    Not identifying with your birth sex at an early age and through puberty has everything to do with gender dysphoria.

    Simple enough?


  • #179
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    MadsL wrote: »

    You can continue to think of absurdities if you like. They are not that funny, and pretty pointless.

    Care to actually have a debate about young children describing their gender identity instead?

    Yes. Their gender identity is their sex. Like the rest of the animal kingdom. humans are not special. With tiny exceptions - hermaphroditism - sex is gender.


  • #180
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Because deities don't exist.

    And your kid probably claimed that on whimsy. If he truly started to believe he was a deity I'm sure you would take it seriously and start worrying that he had a psych problem for being delusional.

    Who said my child was a he?
    Now who's guilty of gender stereotyping?
    Moving this discussion forward, how do you know that Coy did not claim to be female "on whimsy"? Why should Coy's parents not have considered that he was being delusional?


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  • #181
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    ITT: MadsL posts some nonsense in his ever going quest to defend America in AH.

    I didn't bring nationality into this. You did.


This discussion has been closed.
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