Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 11:54PM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

Thats not how it works.

If a person earns 64,999 - they get no pay cut but a pay freeze for 3 years.

If a person earns 65,100 - they get a pay cut of 5.5 (ie 5.5 % of 100 = 5 euro and fifty cents) = 65,094.5 and a pay freeze for 3 years.

I don't think those under €65k get a 3 year pay freeze, just 2x 3 months, no?

OUTOFSYNC · 25-02-2013 11:54PM

polydactyl wrote: »

So A family member is on 80250. Does the 8% apply to their entire salary or is it 5.5% for 65000 till 80000 and the 8% only on the 240? they don't mind the cuts so much more that 250 quid could make a difference of 2000 to that cut which is a but mad. Anyone any idea?

Yes thats my understanding

5.5% ONLY on the portion of ones salary from 65000 to 80000

Stheno · 25-02-2013 11:55PM

polydactyl wrote: »

So A family member is on 80250. Does the 8% apply to their entire salary or is it 5.5% for 65000 till 80000 and the 8% only on the 240? they don't mind the cuts so much more that 250 quid could make a difference of 2000 to that cut which is a but mad. Anyone any idea?

I thought it was entire salary, not much of a saving for the govt. the way you describe it.

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 11:55PM

polydactyl wrote: »

So A family member is on 80250. Does the 8% apply to their entire salary or is it 5.5% for 65000 till 80000 and the 8% only on the 240? they don't mind the cuts so much more that 250 quid could make a difference of 2000 to that cut which is a but mad. Anyone any idea?

5.5% on the whole of the first €80k = €4,400 and then the 8% on the €250
so overall a pay cut of just over €4,400

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 11:56PM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

Yes thats my understanding

5.5% ONLY on the portion of ones salary from 65000 to 80000

It's not. it's entire salary

OUTOFSYNC · 25-02-2013 11:57PM

Uriel. wrote: »

I don't think those under €65k get a 3 year pay freeze, just 2x 3 months, no?

My understanding is that once you hit 65 the pay freezes for 3 years (or until end of agreement)

OUTOFSYNC · 25-02-2013 11:58PM

Uriel. wrote: »

It's not. it's entire salary

From the LRC

Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €65,000 and €80,000 will be reduced by 5.5%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €80,000 and €150,000 will be reduced by 8%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €€150,000 and €185,000 will be reduced by 9%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) over €185,000 will be reduced by 10%

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 12:00AM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

My understanding is that once you hit 65 the pay freezes for 3 years (or until end of agreement)

€65k+ 3 year pay freeze (after the relevant cuts)
Under €65k no pay cut but next two increments are every 15months instead of 12months, except if you are under €35k which is just the next increment that is delayed by three months. Also, if on top of scale you lose the last increment or 6 days holidays over 3 years I think

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 12:02AM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

From the LRC

Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €65,000 and €80,000 will be reduced by 5.5%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €80,000 and €150,000 will be reduced by 8%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €€150,000 and €185,000 will be reduced by 9%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) over €185,000 will be reduced by 10%

Could you send a link for that? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to see the context.

I have high doubts that it's just income over €65k etc... and not entire income. Sure the way that is described would realise a fairly minimal saving I would have thought.

OUTOFSYNC · 26-02-2013 12:05AM

http://www.impact.ie/Croke-Park-Agreement/Labour-Relations-Commission-proposals-on-an-extension-to-the-Croke-Park-agreement-.htm

polydactyl · 26-02-2013 12:05AM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

From the LRC

Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €65,000 and €80,000 will be reduced by 5.5%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €80,000 and €150,000 will be reduced by 8%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) between €€150,000 and €185,000 will be reduced by 9%
Earnings (including allowances in the nature of pay) over €185,000 will be reduced by 10%

Thanks guys and girls. For her sake I hope this is right. At the least it will easy her sleep tonight ( ie she will be less peed off )

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 12:06AM

btw

=

woodoo · 26-02-2013 12:07AM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

http://www.impact.ie/Croke-Park-Agreement/Labour-Relations-Commission-proposals-on-an-extension-to-the-Croke-Park-agreement-.htm
No compulsory redundancies

There will be no compulsory redundancies. This is because IMPACT and other unions successfully moved management from its opening position that compulsory redundancies should be allowed in some circumstances.

They don't seem to know what they agreed too. Impact think there can be no compulsory redundancies. But others are reporting that if you refuse a transfer you can be sacked.

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 12:09AM

OUTOFSYNC wrote: »

http://www.impact.ie/Croke-Park-Agreement/Labour-Relations-Commission-proposals-on-an-extension-to-the-Croke-Park-agreement-.htm

Will have to keep on eye that, it just doesn't seem logical in all honesty.

The journal report it differently, obviously I'd believe the LRC more, but the documents are being rushed together so quickly that mistakes in wording are likely..we'll see

http://www.thejournal.ie/croke-park-2-main-points-809329-Feb2013/

OUTOFSYNC · 26-02-2013 12:09AM

Yes - I noticed that - I assume they mean you cant be sacked if your job is no longer necessary but must be offered alternative position (which is refused means you can be dismissed)

polydactyl · 26-02-2013 12:12AM

I thought it was a 5.5% cut on total salary if over 65000 but not so end result was less than 65000 and then extra cut on earnings over 80000. That way they are still getting about 4000 minimum from most affected. If two euro over 80000 can make you get an extra 2.5% cut on your entire salary approx €2000 then that's beyond ridiculous.

OUTOFSYNC · 26-02-2013 12:13AM

The summaries of the deal so far published lack any detail....It seems that most of the savings will come from the removal of increments ..rather than paycuts.

Jsca · 26-02-2013 12:14AM

FAO Farmer Pudsey. Typical of the average uninformed to say that about teachers. Stick to what you know and don't comment on something you obviously know nothing about. As for your idea about using "expensive hospital equipment" for longer every day... maybe we need more people to get sick in order to avail of these machines because obviously they are not being utilised enough for your liking. Get real.

Jsca · 26-02-2013 12:23AM

fliball123 wrote: »

I have availed of Public services in the past but in general I try not to use them as they are very poor IMO where as if I pay to do something privately the services is always better. But thats only my opinion. But I stand by the fact that services have been diminished, you cannot take the money out of services without it being hit whilst protecting pay and conditions of the work force behind it.

So do you use private schools/colleges, private Gardai?

Jsca · 26-02-2013 12:31AM

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry they were 2 seperate incidents, I rang the gaurds as I had a back window of my car smashed in with a stone. Sorry for the confusion. And the VHI was purchased after my time in St James Hospital for the torn retina,

The story diverges down two different paths. How convenient that you didn't reveal that when trying to back up your initial point.

Farmer Pudsey · 26-02-2013 12:44AM

Jsca wrote: »

FAO Farmer Pudsey. Typical of the average uninformed to say that about teachers. Stick to what you know and don't comment on something you obviously know nothing about. As for your idea about using "expensive hospital equipment" for longer every day... maybe we need more people to get sick in order to avail of these machines because obviously they are not being utilised enough for your liking. Get real.

Jaca it would be helpful if you quoted any post/post that you are referring to.

On expensive hospital equipment that there are waiting lists for it would make a lot of economic sence for these to be use as much as possible. I remember to earlier in the thread referring to it. This happen commonly in the private sector help defray the cost of the equipment.

It is a bit conscending to tell a person to stick to what they know. If we all did that we still be picking the bannas off the trees. It is in the nature of a human being to expand there area's of intrest.

And please keep average and uniformed to yourself. For a poster that it seem has only recently joined boards your contributions are are of such high quality that I am in astonishment of your intellect.

nesf · 26-02-2013 12:45AM

Jsca wrote: »

FAO Farmer Pudsey. Typical of the average uninformed to say that about teachers. Stick to what you know and don't comment on something you obviously know nothing about. As for your idea about using "expensive hospital equipment" for longer every day... maybe we need more people to get sick in order to avail of these machines because obviously they are not being utilised enough for your liking. Get real.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Jaca it would be helpful if you quoted any post/post that you are referring to.

On expensive hospital equipment that there are waiting lists for it would make a lot of economic sence for these to be use as much as possible. I remember to earlier in the thread referring to it. This happen commonly in the private sector help defray the cost of the equipment.

It is a bit conscending to tell a person to stick to what they know. If we all did that we still be picking the bannas off the trees. It is in the nature of a human being to expand there area's of intrest.

And please keep average and uniformed to yourself. For a poster that it seem has only recently joined boards your contributions are are of such high quality that I am in astonishment of your intellect.

Less of the personal comments from both of you please.

Jsca · 26-02-2013 12:52AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Jaca it would be helpful if you quoted any post/post that you are referring to.

On expensive hospital equipment that there are waiting lists for it would make a lot of economic sence for these to be use as much as possible. I remember to earlier in the thread referring to it. This happen commonly in the private sector help defray the cost of the equipment.

It is a bit conscending to tell a person to stick to what they know. If we all did that we still be picking the bannas off the trees. It is in the nature of a human being to expand there area's of intrest.

And please keep average and uniformed to yourself. For a poster that it seem has only recently joined boards your contributions are are of such high quality that I am in astonishment of your intellect.

My intellect? You might want to read back over your post before questioning me.

Good loser · 26-02-2013 12:53AM

Wonder will the sums add up i.e. will the 'savings' come to the €1 bn. Seems light to me. Can't see the increment savings amounting to much. And they will be fully restored after the three years!

Also Gilmore should have known better than to be promising this will be the last ask of the public service.

VirtualWorker · 26-02-2013 02:11AM

mrowan wrote: »

Is there any clarification on the pay cuts, Is it 5.5% only on earnings over €65,000 or 5.5% on all earnings?

According to the impact website it is on only on earnings over €65,000 whereas as on the Irish times site it is on all earnings?

http://www.impact.ie/Croke-Park-Agreement/Labour-Relations-Commission-proposals-on-an-extension-to-the-Croke-Park-agreement-.htm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0225/breaking39.html

The IT is reporting the Taoiseach's €200k will reduce by €14.65k so I figure it works like this: his first 80k is reduced by 5.5% (4.4k), next 70k (up to 150k) by 8% (5.6k), next 35 (to 185) by 9% (3.15k) and final 15 (to 200) by 10% (1.5k) giving 14.65k reduction. So it is marginally applied.

Midnight Sundance · 26-02-2013 06:29AM

My mother who earns 23000 a year will be cut by over 3000 because of twilight hours. This is hardly fair . She is hanging on to her house by the skin of her teeth and I know she is absolutely terrified this will push her over the edge !!!

Head The Wall · 26-02-2013 07:13AM

She has a mortgage on that salary?

kippy · 26-02-2013 07:17AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

She has a mortgage on that salary?

Some people are very skeptical. It may not always have been that salary. Or the mortgage may be for an amoubt linked to that salary.

Id also point out that paying rents in certain areas of the country on a gross salary of that amount would be as difficult as paying a mortgage.

Riskymove · 26-02-2013 07:35AM

Uriel. wrote: »

his pension will be, unless the increment is reinstated before he retires.

it's six days over three years? 6 in one year would be a bit much.

I have seen wording saying people will lose "the value of half their last increment"

not sure wheter actual salary is reduced thus affecting pension or if that amount has to be given uop as a once off

tbh it would be a quarter of an increment, maybe a couple of hundred euro a year off a pension.

Riskymove · 26-02-2013 07:56AM

SB2013 wrote: »

It will be every year. Because the benefit will accumulate from the first year onwards in perpetuity. So the second year will be paying the lower increments from the year before and so will also have a lower pay bill than it would have originally.

no, not for the <65k

they simply have to wait 15 months instead of 12 for their increment. The increment is not reduced and there is no paycut

so its a once off 3 month saving (or actually 2 3 month savings for those 35k-65k and once off for those <35k)

there is no lower increment in future years

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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