Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

tayto lover · 25-02-2013 09:24PM

The Frontline workers should form their own union and fight these unfair cuts. One union for all Frontline staff would be strong. Jack sold them out.

Head The Wall · 25-02-2013 09:25PM

woodoo wrote: »

They have had an effective paycut. They have to work an extra 2 hours per week which equates to a 6% hourly paycut.

Which would prefer - an "effective" paycut or an actual paycut?

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 09:26PM

RTE news also mentioned that retired public servants will have their pensions cut to reflect existing pay arrangements

also mentioned that if a worker refusing a redeployment request, they will be offered voluntary redundancy, if they refuse that, it will be compulsory redundancy. That's a new departure for the PS, even if it is relatively small scale thing

RGS · 25-02-2013 09:27PM

woodoo wrote: »

But overtime should not be considered the norm. I never even get offered overtime.

The problem in the main teaching hospitals is that most wards are understaffed and therefore need staff to work OT/extra shifts to provide a basic service to patients.

The proposals is unfair Nurse gross salary of €35K takes a pay cut
Admin on €60K no pay cut.

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 09:27PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The Frontline workers should form their own union and fight these unfair cuts. One union for all Frontline staff would be strong. Jack sold them out.

Does the 24/7 alliance not cover that? The Gardai can't be members of a union anyway.

woodoo · 25-02-2013 09:28PM

kceire wrote: »

I also feel bad for somebody under the 35k on their max increment. They will lose an increment or 6 days holidays. I think that's a bit unfair.

I heard its 2 days each year over the 3 years or they can choose to hand back half their final increment.

Gumbo · 25-02-2013 09:29PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Which would prefer - an "effective" paycut or an actual paycut?

Effective pay cut of course

I was looking through my time clock today and the 37 hours on paper is the only thing that affects me. But I would average the hours excluding lunch most weeks so I am fine and most my dept are fine (only 9 of us).

Head The Wall · 25-02-2013 09:29PM

kceire wrote: »

I also feel bad for somebody under the 35k on their max increment. They will lose an increment or 6 days holidays. I think that's a bit unfair.

Let's ignore the CSO stats so that state these are the ones that get overpaid the most

Stheno · 25-02-2013 09:30PM

mrowan wrote: »

That seems very unfair, So if you earn €64,999 your pay remains the same, however if you earn €1 more, your pay is reduced by €3575 per annum! that sounds very bizzare to be honest? Are you sure about that? As I said the impact website says it is only on earnings over €65,000?

Pay won't drop under 65k

Gumbo · 25-02-2013 09:30PM

woodoo wrote: »

I heard its 2 days each year over the 3 years or they can choose to hand back half their final increment.

It states a full increment in the media.

martingriff · 25-02-2013 09:33PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Their take home pay remains more or less the same with some tweaks, they have nothing to complain about considering. Makes you wonder why the smaller civil service union walked out of talks

Bravado I think. It will be a way to distance themselves over a few things. I am a clerical Officer in the Revenue and a member of the CPSU. I think they will talk tough but an extra 2 hours a week is not so much

the loss of the 2 days is a bit of a bummer for those at the top of the pay scale but I suppose since increments were been changed for those on them they had to do something with them.

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 09:33PM

kceire wrote: »

It states a full increment in the media.

this is the problem with these kind of processes, the release of info is all over the place and no one knows the exact implications of the main "agreement". I wonder if the relevant negotiators even know the finer detail

woodoo · 25-02-2013 09:33PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Which would prefer - an "effective" paycut or an actual paycut?

I couldn't afford to lose anymore money so i'd do the unpaid extra hours.

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 09:36PM

I know this won't be a popular comment, but the guy's earning €185k, waking up one morning in July to €18.5k less is ouch! I know €185k is huge money and perhaps at least some are overpaid for what they do, but that is still some hit.

martingriff · 25-02-2013 09:36PM

mrowan wrote: »

That seems very unfair, So if you earn €64,999 your pay remains the same, however if you earn €1 more, your pay is reduced by €3575 per annum! that sounds very bizzare to be honest? Are you sure about that? As I said the impact website says it is only on earnings over €65,000?

The way increments work someone on a scale of over 65K will not drop down to under the increment below it

apache · 25-02-2013 09:37PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The Frontline workers should form their own union and fight these unfair cuts. One union for all Frontline staff would be strong. Jack sold them out.

Well they have formed the frontline alliance. They should be seperate. I'm a prison officer and i'm disgusted by all these cuts. Already taken a huge pay cut and now coming back for more. I wouldn't mind so much if i was a clerk but with the conditions we work in its apalling. We have compulsory overtime. No choice in matter. Its a 24/7 shop. Can't very well close down at night or weekends.

All the frontline staff are badly off as it is working under high risk and pressure situations with little back up not to mention struggling to make ends meet.

The **** has already hit the fan and now the government want to smear it all over us.

The ballad will be a no vote on our side.

Whenever anyone needs a 24/7 service i hope they get it.

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 09:44PM

apache wrote: »

Well they have formed the frontline alliance. They should be seperate. I'm a prison officer and i'm disgusted by all these cuts. Already taken a huge pay cut and now coming back for more. I wouldn't mind so much if i was a clerk but with the conditions we work in its apalling. We have compulsory overtime. No choice in matter. Its a 24/7 shop. Can't very well close down at night or weekends.

All the frontline staff are badly off as it is working under high risk and pressure situations with little back up not to mention struggling to make ends meet.

The **** has already hit the fan and now the government want to smear it all over us.

The ballad will be a no vote on our side.

Whenever anyone needs a 24/7 service i hope they get it.

I am watching that programme on RTE at the moment, "life on the inside", I don't envy your job, I really don't. I don't think frontline workers should be immune from cuts, but I do genuinely think you got a raw deal this time around.

Carlow2011 · 25-02-2013 10:35PM

The cut off points are going to cause a lot of anomalies eg if a pay scale starts at €60k and goes to €80k then those earning just over €65k getting the 5.5% cut will now be earning less that those just below the €65k, strange.

Sarn · 25-02-2013 10:48PM

Given that pay is on an incremental scale, there will have to be an adjustment to each point over each threshold. My understanding is that if you earn over €65k, you won't go below that.

mvron · 25-02-2013 10:52PM

Is anyone else finding Jack O'Connor's interactions with the media today appalling? I'm thinking in particular of his interaction with Mary Wilson on the radio after 6pm earlier & his attitude towards Claire Byrne on Prime Time right now. He appears like an arrogant weasel who is so far removed from the real 'working class' that he's doing the government's job for them. What a creep (imo)!

Vizzy · 25-02-2013 11:12PM

I must say that I was never a fan of Jack O Connor.
However the one point that he made( and the one that made Claire Byrne very nervous) was when he stated that the media in general have been "stirring the pot" fo years in relation to public service salaries being higher than private sector and now they want to decry the unions for agreeing to such an "unpalatable deal".
Make your mind Claire !!

SB2013 · 25-02-2013 11:24PM

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0225/369441-croke-park/

RTÉ News has learnt that the Croke Park II Agreement will allow for compulsory redundancy for public servants in limited circumstances where they cannot or will not be redeployed.

Dismissal will also be "actively pursued" where agreed procedures for managing underperformers have been exhausted.

The agreement also states that the Government is committed to reducing the pensions of retirees in line with cuts for serving employees, but this will only apply to pensions above €32,500 per annum.

This would hit a number of recently retired politicians and top civil servants including former Taoisigh Brian Cowen and Bertie Ahern.

Farmer Pudsey · 25-02-2013 11:34PM

RGS wrote: »

The frontline staff are the losers in this proposal. Example nurse on a gross salary of €35K loses approx 8% taking into account the loss of the twilight payment, changes to overtime and sunday rates whereas admin staff on €60K working mon to fri lose nothing.

Thats a fair and equitable deal.!!!!

Cant see this proposal being accepted by the frontline staff.

How do you make out a nurse loses 8%. I do agree with you Admin staff and those working straight days seem to have got off lightly.

Part of the government is that as staff on 24/7 cover as they advance through the payscale and there wages increase then OT rates etc really reward them, Against that they end up paying over half it in tax usually.

A staff member working every second sunday would lose about 2.1% of basic pay if doing 5 shifts/week and if doing 12 hour shifts it is a little over 3% and twilight payments are quite small in most jobs.

The real hit will be in OT rates where any staff have to work a lot of extra hours double time after eight hours is gone I think. The other issue is it may be hard to get better paid staff to work OT as after tax the reward will be minimum.

This fixation with basic pay by unions and government may cause issue for both sides down the line.

woodoo · 25-02-2013 11:40PM

SB2013 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0225/369441-croke-park/
TÉ News has learnt that the Croke Park II Agreement will allow for compulsory redundancy for public servants in limited circumstances where they cannot or will not be redeployed.

That is a big one. A bit worrying. Could it be abused by management?

E.g 'I want to transfer you from south county Dublin to north county Dublin, i don't care if its a 2 hr each way commute. Take the transfer of face the sack.'

Shirleysrumbler · 25-02-2013 11:45PM

Vizzy wrote: »

I must say that I was never a fan of Jack O Connor.
However the one point that he made( and the one that made Claire Byrne very nervous) was when he stated that the media in general have been "stirring the pot" fo years in relation to public service salaries being higher than private sector and now they want to decry the unions for agreeing to such an "unpalatable deal".
Make your mind Claire !!

Claire no longer works for The Messiah of Haiti (who decided to turn on Lowry in his rag yesterday). She therefore needn't stick to the line she had when working for Denis' thought Police at Newstalk.. Hope Lowry didn't take a bung for the Esat favour back then as he'd get his buddy in the sh1t if he told the tale. Wonder does Denis now hold editorial sway over RTE through relevant minister(funds FG and even got to NY Stock Exchanger last year with Enda) thereby explaining Claire's antipathy to Public Service. Love the way the ISME Sleeveen was licking his lips on news today in anticipation of cutting the wages of his Serfs.
Warning to the Private Sector. You're Next!!

Geuze · 25-02-2013 11:45PM

It's good to see PS pensions being cut.

PS workers took too much of the pain compared to PS pensioners.

A typical retired teacher on 700 pw / 3000 pm / 36k pa pension can afford to take a bigger cut.

I would actually have cut PS pensions by more, myself.

oppenheimer1 · 25-02-2013 11:49PM

SB2013 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0225/369441-croke-park/

Not in the final draft apparently

Uriel. · 25-02-2013 11:49PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I do agree with you Admin staff and those working straight days seem to have got off lightly.

save for those on €65,000+

OUTOFSYNC · 25-02-2013 11:50PM

Carlow2011 wrote: »

The cut off points are going to cause a lot of anomalies eg if a pay scale starts at €60k and goes to €80k then those earning just over €65k getting the 5.5% cut will now be earning less that those just below the €65k, strange.

Thats not how it works.

If a person earns 64,999 - they get no pay cut but a pay freeze for 3 years.

If a person earns 65,100 - they get a pay cut of 5.5 (ie 5.5 % of 100 = 5 euro and fifty cents) = 65,094.5 and a pay freeze for 3 years.

polydactyl · 25-02-2013 11:52PM

So a family member is on 80250. Does the 8% apply to their entire salary or is it 5.5% until till 80000 and the 8% only on the 240? they don't mind the cuts so much more that 250 quid could make a difference of 2000 to that cut which is a but mad. Anyone any idea?

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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