A request from Athiest Ireland to take part in a survey

human 19 · 23-02-2013 6:23pm #1

http://unrcfr.us.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_3QlZZFokgDdWBTf

Posted by Athiest Ireland on thie facebook page:

"Atheist Ireland published a request in the last Secular Sunday newsletter for people to participate in PhD research regarding atheists - covering your experiences as an atheist, your involvement with secular organisations and your perceptions of discrimination and prejudice against you as an atheist.

The compiler of the survey is now specifically seeking more responses from Ireland because it has almost enough data for Irish responses to be identified at a statistically meaningful level and to be compared to global results and the results from certain other countries...

Participation in this survey is voluntary and anonymous. Your responses will be combined with others, and no personally identifying information will be recorded. Your honest and complete answers are crucial to making sure survey results accurately represent the experiences of atheists.

The survey will take approximately 15-20 minutes to complete, and will remain open until 27 March 2013. Please feel free to share this link with anyone that you think would be interested in participating."

Hotblack Desiato · 24-02-2013 12:00pm

Wow, worst designed web page ever, it's literally unreadable. No way am I wasting my time with that.

Galvasean · 24-02-2013 7:18pm

Sadly, I must agree with Ninja900. I don't think i could manage 15-20 minutes looking at that eye=straining font and colour scheme.

burstbuckle · 24-02-2013 7:32pm

Done it,only took 10 mins

Solair · 24-02-2013 7:34pm

Just had a browse through it, it's not that bad, it's only the front page that's badly presented.

I'm just a little confused, when they say secular organisations, do they mean just any secular organisation or one that's specifically about secularism ?

I mean, I'm involved in lots of organisations that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion and are secular.. do they mean all of those? or, just like say UCC's Atheist Soc?

---

edit :

Ah ok, they mean atheist, secular, freethinking etc organisations ..

Tim Robbins · 24-02-2013 8:10pm

Just did it. Some constructive criticism. There were plenty of are you happy / sad questions.

My negative emotions are mainly due to the finacial collapse. I am sure it might be the same with others. So if his study is an attempt to ascertain if atheists are happier or sadder than religious people it get some false correlations.

I refused to answer the question asking me to describe my social class:

Upper class
Upper middle class
Lower middle class
Working class
Lower class

I am educated, in negative equity - have been watching every penny for the last 4 years, hardly ever go out but have a salary above average. If I didn't have big debts and child care fees I might upgrade my 13 year old car but I am happy to keep it on the road for another few years as things stand.

So in one respect I am working class and in another I am upper middle.

I hate such old fashioned ways of classifying people. Reminds me of David McWilliams.

eviltwin · 24-02-2013 8:54pm

Done

iguana · 25-02-2013 1:01am

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Just did it. Some constructive criticism. There were plenty of are you happy / sad questions.

My negative emotions are mainly due to the finacial collapse. I am sure it might be the same with others. So if his study is an attempt to ascertain if atheists are happier or sadder than religious people it get some false correlations.

I probably borked the survey too. Not only have I a 3 month old but in the last week I moved house, then my husband was in a car crash and needed surgery. Questions about how attentive, angry, stressed, scared, etc, I've been in the last week have some pretty skewed answers.

Zombrex · 25-02-2013 9:12am

Call me a cynic, but would a university really accept a PhD that used statistics gathered from an Internet survey?

Tim Robbins · 25-02-2013 9:54am

Zombrex wrote: »

Call me a cynic, but would a university really accept a PhD that used statistics gathered from an Internet survey?

Sure doesn't Gillian have a PhD.

Solair · 25-02-2013 11:00am

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Just did it. Some constructive criticism. There were plenty of are you happy / sad questions.

My negative emotions are mainly due to the finacial collapse. I am sure it might be the same with others. So if his study is an attempt to ascertain if atheists are happier or sadder than religious people it get some false correlations.

I refused to answer the question asking me to describe my social class:

I am educated, in negative equity - have been watching every penny for the last 4 years, hardly ever go out but have a salary above average. If I didn't have big debts and child care fees I might upgrade by 13 year old car but I am happy to keep it on the road for another few years as things stand.

So in one respect I am working class and in another I am upper middle.

I hate such old fashioned ways of classifying people. Reminds me of David McWilliams.

I couldn't find the option for 'knight of the realm' ... had to pick working class.

It's highly subjective to ask people to self-describe their class though and you'll get vastly different results in the UK where a lot more people self-identify as work-class who may have PhD.

Where as in Ireland or the US you'll find more people self-identify as middle-class

I'm not sure who'd self-identify as upper class though in an irish context as it usually applies to aristocrats and we're a republic. I suppose perhaps, bankers ?

Geomy · 25-02-2013 11:09am

I always thought most Atheists were autonomous and stay away from organizations....

Is Atheist Ireland representative of all Atheists in Ireland ?

Solair · 25-02-2013 11:21am

In an Irish (and perhaps British) context atheists (and other secularists who might be religious) tend to have to organise because they still need to lobby to protect their rights against states that are theocratic in their leanings.

Ireland in particular is far from a secular state in many respects. OK, it's improved a lot, but it still has large hangovers from the past too.

The same applies in the UK, although in some ways British society moved earlier towards secularism than we did, however I think Ireland's rapidly caught up and could potentially pass them by as our Republic system is probably better suited to being properly secular than their messy constitutional monarchy

The UK still has many of the vestiges of a theocratic state, including an established church and has 26 church of England bishops "lords spiritual" sitting in the upper house of the legislature !! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_Spiritual

So, I think to be fair, there are a lot of issues we in Ireland and also in Britain have to continuously lobby on. It's a LONG way from France or the United States which actually understand and accept the concept of secularism.

I know Americans are more overtly religious, but their state is very much properly secular. Ours population's now far less religious than many Americans but our state is still steeped in links to the Catholic Church and the British state has a full established church.

I can't imagine say French secularists / atheists having to be organised because their rights are just respected. Where as in Ireland or Britain you've major issues around things like access to education, swearing religious oaths, religious prayers in parliaments / councils etc

We're a LONG way off an open, secular society that treats EVERYONE equally regardless of religious belief or none and until then, atheists (and religious people who believe in a secular state) really have to have some degree of organisation as here is a cause to be organised to fight for!

robindch · 25-02-2013 11:24am

Geomy wrote: »

Is Atheist Ireland representative of all Atheists in Ireland ?

Nope. AI only represents its members.

Geomy · 25-02-2013 11:31am

Solair wrote: »

In an Irish (and perhaps British) context atheists (and other secularists who might be religious) tend to have to organise because they still need to lobby to protect their rights against states that are theocratic in their leanings.

Ireland in particular is far from a secular state in many respects. OK, it's improved a lot, but it still has large hangovers from the past too.

The same applies in the UK, although in some ways British society moved earlier towards secularism than we did, I think Ireland's rapidly caught up and could potentially pass them by as our Republic system is probably better suited to being properly secular than their messy constitutional monarchy

The UK still has many of the vestiges of a theocratic state, including an established church and has 26 church of England bishops "lords spiritual" sitting in the upper house of the legislature !! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_Spiritual

So, I think to be fair, there are a lot of issues we in Ireland and also in Britain have to continuously lobby on. It's a LONG way from France or the United States which actually understand and accept the concept of secularism.

I know Americans are more overtly religious, but their state is very much properly secular. Ours population's now far less religious than many Americans but our state is still steeped in links to the Catholic Church and the British state has a full established church.

I can't imagine say French secularists / atheists having to be organised because their rights are just respected. Where as in Ireland or Britain you've major issues around things like access to education, swearing religious oaths, religious prayers in parliaments / councils etc

We're a LONG way off an open, secular society that treats EVERYONE equally regardless of religious belief or none and until then, atheists really have to have some degree of organisation as here is a cause to be organised to fight!

It's sad really, with all those power struggles in society.

I don't think the schools educate enough about the fact we can potentially all live together peacefully and labels are only man made....

Some people are born with a superstitious way about them some don't believe in.anything spiritual or supernaturaland don't force it on anyone or look down on people,they live a good life and die knowing they were good people...

More people are fundamental and they love being argumentative strident and control freaks,that's ok too or is it ?

Where's the happy medium ?

Bannasidhe · 25-02-2013 12:48pm

Geomy wrote: »

I don't think the schools educate enough about the fact we can potentially all live together peacefully and labels are only man made....

When 93% of primary schools teach that only members of a particular religion are 'right' and everyone else is 'wrong' then conflict is built into the system - especially as more and more people begin to either question that particular religion or seek to detach from it.

Schools should be teaching that all citizens are equal - not that members of one religion are 'right'. An 'us' and 'them' attitude is part and parcel of this.

That is one of the problems with allowing one religious ethos to dominate education - it's primary concern is with teaching adherence to that religion and not the basic civic rights and responsibilities of all members of society.

Geomy · 25-02-2013 1:48pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

When 93% of primary schools teach that only members of a particular religion are 'right' and everyone else is 'wrong' then conflict is built into the system - especially as more and more people begin to either question that particular religion or seek to detach from it.

Schools should be teaching that all citizens are equal - not that members of one religion are 'right'. An 'us' and 'them' attitude is part and parcel of this.

That is one of the problems with allowing one religious ethos to dominate education - it's primary concern is with teaching adherence to that religion and not the basic civic rights and responsibilities of all members of society.

I never let it dominate me really,I was lucky to be a different class of school kid...

I was the kid who looked out window's daydreaming,walked the shoreline on the way home...

Got in trouble for laughing during class,asked awkward questions,doodled on my copy book during religion...
I just didn't fit into the whole catholic ethos...

I can see how a certain type of kid can get inappropriate conditioning,and like I more rebel.

I was lucky I never conformed to herd mentality,I thank my Grandmother and Parents for teaching me good virtues along with being good parents.

I can only talk about myself here,I have empathy for those who's lives were corrupted,ruined and tortured by the church.

I'm one of the lucky people who detached from it all because I knew in my gut I had my own path in life,and not the path that was chosen by the RC

professore · 25-02-2013 1:59pm

I also found the whole section on the secular organisation membership not applicable. I don't believe in leprechauns either, but don't feel the need to join the "leprechauns aren't real" society.

Also found out I'm quite a positive person at the moment. I have lots of things I COULD be negative about, but choose not to, as at the end of the day, it doesn't help. I wasn't always that way.

Was always someone who thought for themselves, but it still took me a long time to finally admit to myself that the whole god thing didn't make sense to me - funnily enough it was fear that held me back. That's what a Sisters of Mercy / Christian Brothers education will do I guess ...

Tim Robbins · 25-02-2013 2:07pm

Solair wrote: »

Where as in Ireland or the US you'll find more people self-identify as middle-class

I'm not sure who'd self-identify as upper class though in an irish context as it usually applies to aristocrats and we're a republic. I suppose perhaps, bankers ?

Abstractions that are subjective are usually useless abstractions.

Country is not a subjective abstraction. So the For example, "what country do you live in?" is a logical question / answer.

Whereas, social class is an ambiguous, subjective abstraction and therefore pretty much useless.

Galvasean · 25-02-2013 2:22pm

After being reassured that the font improves after page 1 I gave it ago. Took less than 10 minutes. Glad I did it now.

Bannasidhe · 25-02-2013 3:03pm

Geomy wrote: »

I never let it dominate me really,I was lucky to be a different class of school kid...

I was the kid who looked out window's daydreaming,walked the shoreline on the way home...

Got in trouble for laughing during class,asked awkward questions,doodled on my copy book during religion...
I just didn't fit into the whole catholic ethos...

I can see how a certain type of kid can get inappropriate conditioning,and like I more rebel.

I was lucky I never conformed to herd mentality,I thank my Grandmother and Parents for teaching me good virtues along with being good parents.

I can only talk about myself here,I have empathy for those who's lives were corrupted,ruined and tortured by the church.

I'm one of the lucky people who detached from it all because I knew in my gut I had my own path in life,and not the path that was chosen by the RC

I was sent to a private non denominational school so the RCC didn't get their hooks into me either - the point is because of the way the Irish educational system is set up my parents had no option but to pay large school fees or send me to an RCC controlled school.

When it came to sending my son to school I had no choice but to send him to an RCC controlled school even though he is not even baptised - never mind being a Catholic.

Likewise with my grandchildren...

This is simply not acceptable and makes a mockery of the Constitution which states in Article 40.1 that all citizens are equal under the law; Article 42 guarantees parents the right to determine where their children shall be educated and A citizen's freedom of religious conscience, practice, and worship is guaranteed, "subject to public order and morality", by Article 44.2.1°

If one has no choice but to send ones child to a school controlled by one particular religion - and educating one's child is a legal requirement - then the argument can be made that non-Catholic children are not being treated equally under the law.

Article 42 guarantees parents the right to determine where their children shall be educated but if the State only provides RCC controlled schools in the locality that clause is meaningless.

Once again the lack of choice undermines a citizen's freedom of religious conscience, practice, and worship which is guaranteed, by Article 44.2.1° by failing to allow a choice.

Solair · 25-02-2013 8:52pm

They overlook aspects of the constitution when it doesn't suit them.
Reminds me a bit of how people interpret the bible or other religious texts - highly selectively!

I mean OMG we absolutely needed that blasphemy law, but a literal interpretation of Article 42... Now that'd be far too awkward and would require structural reforms.

Hotblack Desiato · 26-02-2013 12:30am

Bad and all as it is that children are exposed to religious nonsense against the wishes of their parents, what is probably worse is that with 98% of primary schools under religious control, an atheist has almost no chance of obtaining a teaching job unless they lie. There are gay teachers working in religious ethos schools who might lose their job if they came out. This is a particularly nasty form of discrimination, but is expressly permitted by legislation.

Bannasidhe · 26-02-2013 10:31am

ninja900 wrote: »

Bad and all as it is that children are exposed to religious nonsense against the wishes of their parents, what is probably worse is that with 98% of primary schools under religious control, an atheist has almost no chance of obtaining a teaching job unless they lie. There are gay teachers working in religious ethos schools who might lose their job if they came out. This is a particularly nasty form of discrimination, but is expressly permitted by legislation.

A friend of mine is a Lesbian Atheist primary school teacher in charge of getting the kids ready for their Communion...

She has taken up poker as she says she needs to learn to control her facial expressions better and reckons as a good Kerry woman the best way of learning this is to put money at stake...:D

car.kar · 28-02-2013 7:10pm

A few random bits in there about how I'm feeling in my life. Done nonetheless.

Obliq · 28-02-2013 8:41pm

Damn! Messed up on the first page and only realised when leaving the page that I hadn't answered where I'm from!!! Oops. Wouldn't let me go back either. Ah well. It was interesting though, eh?

A request from Athiest Ireland to take part in a survey

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